Marine Is Co Is Under Powered Help Them!

Act_Chill

I think at first they are even but how can anyone say a level 10 alien is not better than a level 10 marine. A ono with 4 picks(can chose any so better than ono in NS) vs say a HA(not fully upgraded b/c of lack of levels). It takes about a full clip of level 3 hmg to kill an ono while an ono can just run up an instantly devour a HA. For jps in ns they have to fight lerks. In Co a lerk can have 8 upgrades making it far better. Alien and marine are counters to each other (ono for ha ha for lerk jp for ono) but aliens get a big boost in Co making it where a lerk can kill a HA and the ceilings are low in most Co map areas so ono can kill jp.

Ahnteis

Don't play defense so long. At some point, SOMEONE has to win.

Have 1/2 your team upgrade for defense, and have the other have JP rush the hive.

Majin

@Act Chill
Everyone has there own opinion, but yours' is a very common one.
Sadly its mostly based in a poor understanding of the Balance of Natural Selection. Many Players when they first start out or even after they have played for a long time will find the game unbalanced at times. Many factors play a part in this and the most major being the Skill of the Players, followed by the Server and Lastly by the game its self. Many players find they are better with 1 class and worse with another. My self I find that in Classic NS I am best with Fade, in Combat, lerk.

To Address your post further I want you to think about who the teams (Kharaa, Marine) are structured, even in Combat. The Marines may be underpowered 1 vs 1, but the game was never ment to be played that way, Combat is the best example of this due to the way you level up faster when you kill as a team. A Marine with level 3 weps, level 3 guns, HA, and an HMG, can take down an Onos on his own in short time, but the Onos also will have upgrades making it harder for 1 uber marine to take him down. You get 2 or 3 uber marines and you will not only kill that Onos, but anything else that comes at you.

Combat is less team work intense than C:NS but players seem to work together more in Combat than in Classic. 1 vs 1 the Marines are always going to be at the dissadvantage, but there are ways of switching this. JP's are a good way to make the game move in your favour. HA, HMG trains are another way. GLs do major DMG to the Kharaa. Everything in NS has an equal, even if you don't see it.

Act_Chill

I said in ns everything has a counter, but in Co the aliens get even more of a bonus. I do think that who ever has a better team will pull out the win but equal teams player and skill aliens will always win. Its easier for aliens to spawn camp (although its easy to do as a marine also) and a level 10 gorg can just be walking around and kill a level 10 jp as apose to ns were a fully upgraded jp would kill a gorg no problems. Gorgs arent ment for battle even in Co they are for support. In NS a lerk gets 3 picks one from each type of chamber. A lerk is a counter to jp and the lerk should win most of the time. Now the lerk gets like 6 upgrades and the jp doesnt get to get "full" upgrades so in Co the lerk becomes even better while the jp becomes worse.

PS (an ono with stomp and devour with a lerk umbra him can kill up to 4 HA and a HA can not have 3armor and 3weapon and hmg they have to go 2/3 and then they dont get a welder which is my point aliens can fully upgrade but marines cant)

SiDSquishy

As a lvl 10 marine im not afraid of any alien except a good lvl 10 fade. Working as a team the rines can win more often than aliens.............. so go work asa team.

RedWingate

Co Games can take up to 45min ( seen that quite often ) so how can one say that one team is so badly overpowered? I guess if the skilled players whould even up better across the teams one would see that both teams are balanced.

oOgA

my highest record i seen was like 1++ hours. ? it happens when both teams are equally powered or both teams hav lack of offensive firepower or tanks

eg: alien got too many small life forms or almost all go lerks, marine goes JP and none goes HA with high firepower

and even though is combat, still req. teamwork. a solo marine can still die regardless of HA or JP

Rapier7

No upgrades.

None whatsoever.

Make the spawn time just a bit higher and all will be well.

Edit: Yeah, I stole it from somebody in beta discussion. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

f3rret

I love combat the way it is. I win and lose as marines, I win and lose as aliens. I LOVE the upgrade system, and think it should stay the way it is.

It seems to come down to the amount of teamwork, and the skill of the players, which is the way it should be.

Thats_Enough

When we playtested combat, at first it seemed like a way to avoid teamwork, and go more rambo style, like in CS for example. But now, it's obvious. Sure, teamwork is not AS important, but going rambo in Combat really doesn't help. I've seen many a match come down to who can kill the cc/hive first, and it's always close. Then I've seen many a match just be onesided. You can't "res****" in combat, but you can still screw over the team if you don't work together on upgrades and such.

It's a great way for new people to learn the ropes of NS, but a bad way at the same time I suppose. You can always tell a newbie on CO servers when you hear "BS" or "THIS IS SO STACKED". Granted, things will be stacked at times... but it just comes down to how well the team works together in the end.

RedWingate

Well i guess there are still some very successfull rambos out there. I've seen more then once a single JP killing the hive on his own because the aliens going offence and nobody cared about going gorge and healing the hive.

Then again u see gorges webbing the hive as soon as the first JP appear in a match which really takes the scare of any JP-Skiller <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Geronimo

Marines already got a huge advantage: Ranged weapons.

Nothign the aliens can do removes this, and in groups of a few, marines are devastating.

I like Classic better though, as there, the marines have other issues, which are more fun to deal with IMO.

Act_Chill

Marines usually move as a group at the begining, but I go for cloaking first. No matter if they have a shotty and armor 1 or are in groups I'm going get 1 person. Then there is zenocide...aliens die but marines dont get xp while a group of marines working together get raped by the explosion. Yes marines have ranged weapons but they are weak compared to the aliens bite(b/c its not ranged). I think that if the aliens dont have a gorg and a lerk or if the only team member who is a gorg or lerk sucks the aliens are in trouble. The marines can get away with not diversifying as much and if marines start to lose they will stay at base. Most of the time all the aliens wont rush at once so the marines can concetrate fire and hold them off for a long time.

CommunistWithAGun

Marines turtle in base afraid to die because when they do, in great quantities, its game over. The alternative, turtling, also causes death. Its rare in pubs for marines to win in combat. It can't be fixed as the problem is based on mobility, and the aliens have the upperhand.

Zunni

Funny I've noticed the exact opposite, because so many CO aliens play as superskulks, in late game (level 10) situations the skulks have a much harder time against a small pack of HA's marching to the hive (including a gl'er or two), and a JP'er or two ramboing the hive from the other direction..


I find (my opinion) is the later in the game we are, the better chance the marines have of winning.

I find most aliens win come around level 5-6 and marine wins are level 9-10...

But that's my experience, and without server stats from all the servers over a significant period of time, any experiences we have are just moments in time..

MightyDarK

that marines are ranged. therefor they can start an attack long before skulk or any other melee unit gets close thats a big help.. i think its about balanced.. if marines was melee 2 i see the unbalance but they are not <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

RedWingate

Hehe just coming back from a 24 player game with 9 Alien Onosing ... wow we were kinda **** i tell you as they respawn just as fast as the skulks do they can be kinda annoying as it takes quite a while to kill an onos even 5 on 1

BigBull

Basic things i see happen to marines, causing them to lose.

-Never move up, sit in base

-hump armory

-do not stay in groups


-STAY IN BASE and let aliens romp them

k thx

Act_Chill

Some people have to stay at base to guard. Aliens dont have to have as many people gaurd base b/c they are more mobile. So say 3 guard and 5 go as a group. 2 good aliens working together can kill all 5 before they make it to the hive. <b>I think the marines win only b/c most aliens dont like going gorg or know how to use them. </b>So what happens is a jp can fly fast and straight to hive and do a lot of damage before something kills it. To guard base the aliens only really need a gorg webbing the 2 entrances and a lerk so they can umbra hive and get to the webbed people fast. If more help is needed who ever spawns can help. Hell an Ono goes much faster than a HA which sucks.

People say well how come Co games can last for an hour+. Well if all marines camp and have hmgs and gls and aliens do not attack all at once the marines can concentrate fire and kill anything that comes in there base. Also, you can have several really good players on the marines that can just bring the rape to the aliens.

TheGivingTree

"As a lvl 10 marine im not afraid of any alien except a good lvl 10 fade. Working as a team the rines can win more often than aliens.............. so go work asa team. "

A good working Alien team owns a good working marine team. Think about it, umbra+webs+stomp+devour+blinking around the room distracting all the marines while swiping = ownage of any marine team.

Standard

Combat just needs a different way of respawn for games of 5 and under players. You wont stop spawn camping because thats how the game ends. A pro marine team will easily rape a pro alien team because the marines will just smash through and camp/kill the hive before the aliens get a chance to get their upgrades. You would need uber pro aliens to beat a pro marine team because the aliens wont be able to sneak up or ambush as the marine will know they are there, and if the aliens cant get leap and focus or leap and silence then its game over.

Standard

TheGivingTree - a semi decent marine team wont let the game go far enough for the aliens to get all that you posted above.