Theory Involving Backstory.
7Bistromath
Join Date: 2003-12-04 Member: 23928Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-12-04 Member: 23928Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Kharaa as nanites gone wrong?</div> In that "siege terret" thread, what was locked...<!--QuoteBegin-version91x+Mar 21 4:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (version91x @ Mar 21 4:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> how can an alien species travel through space without technology?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Actually, I have a theory about that one...
It seems likely to me that the Kharaa are not truly a bacterial life form, but nanotech gone horribly wrong.<ul><li>They "infect" metallic, nonliving objects.</li><li>They seem to sprout in human installations and ships without warning, indicating that they can either travel through vacuum, or are already there.</li><li>They use nanosludge as food.</li><li>When separate lifeforms begin to spawn, they work much like a computer network, with autonomous units sending and receiving information among each other.</li><li>They are highly territorial, much as medical nanites designed to boost one's immune system would be.</li><li>In the world info, they are described as being the product of thousands of years of combat... What species do we know of that's been fighting for that long?</li></ul>I've had this idea floating around pretty much since I started playing the game. If I were going to make an NS film (not a rinky-dink in-engine fan movie, but a real live-action movie, with a budget) this is certainly the approach I would take. It'd make a good way to fit in the corrupt megacorp/government thing the world info talks about that never actually shows up in the game. Some of the higher-ups could know about the true origin of the Kharaa, and they'd be trying to cover it up all the time, putting some real drama into the mix. Lots of "dammit, Jim" type scenes, if you get what I'm saying.
It seems likely to me that the Kharaa are not truly a bacterial life form, but nanotech gone horribly wrong.<ul><li>They "infect" metallic, nonliving objects.</li><li>They seem to sprout in human installations and ships without warning, indicating that they can either travel through vacuum, or are already there.</li><li>They use nanosludge as food.</li><li>When separate lifeforms begin to spawn, they work much like a computer network, with autonomous units sending and receiving information among each other.</li><li>They are highly territorial, much as medical nanites designed to boost one's immune system would be.</li><li>In the world info, they are described as being the product of thousands of years of combat... What species do we know of that's been fighting for that long?</li></ul>I've had this idea floating around pretty much since I started playing the game. If I were going to make an NS film (not a rinky-dink in-engine fan movie, but a real live-action movie, with a budget) this is certainly the approach I would take. It'd make a good way to fit in the corrupt megacorp/government thing the world info talks about that never actually shows up in the game. Some of the higher-ups could know about the true origin of the Kharaa, and they'd be trying to cover it up all the time, putting some real drama into the mix. Lots of "dammit, Jim" type scenes, if you get what I'm saying.
Comments
And I once wrote a sort of similar theory in my swarm thread, but not so detailed. The swarm was the 'missing link' alien, consisting of both bacterium and corrupted nanites, taking the benefit of both bacteria and nanites.
Uhh... Yeah, I'll get right on it as soon as I'm the head of my own studio in Hollywood. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As for the initial question, how do germs move on Earth? Imagine a cargo container from a bacterium-infested ship in which no hive has yet spawned. Imagine it being unloaded into a shipyard, and staying there for a few days until being moved on.
By that point, every other container in the storage facility would be infested, as well. Imagine all these containers being loaded into different ships, with different routes...
That's the over-arching theme, but it says nothing about the mechanics behind it. Saying that biological things are simple is a false precept at its very core. Just think: with all our amazing technology, one of the things we've found most difficult to manage is creating something life-like. By the very nature of nanotech, it seems only natural that it could be mistaken for some germ when it gets out of control, which would of course be what the organizations who created the now rogue nanites would want everyone to be convinced of. The way nanites work, they are in fact much like a virus, simply made of metal instead of organic compounds. If the Kharaa base aren't actual nanites, it may be that they are an organic thing made to do the same job. It doesn't really matter if we're talking about a microbe or a machine, except in terms of storyline, because the results are the same. A microbe <i>is</i> a tiny, highly complex machine, so if our technology gets to the point of being able to simulate such, and then turns against us, the Kharaa is what the result might look like.
Ever read Prey anyone? By Michael Chrichton? (spelling?) It's about these swarms of nanites and bacteria that evolve, reporduce and eat people.
1) This has to be obvious: ns_origin, can you get anymore blatant than that!
Like "Aliens" ns_origin and its hive "biodome" suggest that the Kharaa were most likely some sort of bacterial mistake made by scientiets fooling with nature (much like Aliens). Thus this would eliminate the need to travel to marine stations seeming as they probably, as nem said, were transported by TSAs own transport ships.
2) Even though they are "man-made", they cannot be nano-tech because nano-tech is nano-machinery and the kharaa are 100% biological (anti-hightech). This is sort of a pet-peeve of mine so I will divulge further: Maybe unkowingly you have suggested a theme much like the Matrix: machines that behave and look in a biological manner. Sorry to say, but this idea is absurd! Machines, by their very nature are programmed to be 100% effecient and error-free. This is why machines will always be opposite of biological life forms. Think about, if a machine were to make another machine, in the spirit of effecieny, said machine would already use its highspeed processer to precalculate the EXACT amount of material, energy supply, sensors, and limbs that would be need to make the machine perform what it needed to do. There would be no error, no half-used parts, no uneffecient movements, and all movements would be linear (line is the shortest distance between two points). THis is the total opposite of biological life forms. We, humans, kharaa, and anything biological are prone to inefficiency and error. Example: We use much more energy than we need, we are born with defects, and we have at least 3 organs/body parts we don't even utilize 100% (kidney/coccyx/spleen/etc...). The kharaa are designed simlarly: they have random bumps and humps on their body, they have claws that are longer than they need to be to kill, and bacterium growth is inconsistent and uneven Thus, ideas of biological machines (like the matrix) are contridictory. Just think of those huge robots in the matrix: They have WAY to many limbs and arms to effectively use them all effeciently, they move in wavey patterns which consume more energy than travelling in a line, and they are way bigger than they need to be. I understand why this was (how immersive would the movie be if you had compact spheres floating around in straight lines with only one small prode to inflict damage with, not scary) but even though it makes for a good story, it does not fit logically. Simply put: because of the strict nature of machines to always be 100% effecient and the error-prone nature of biological lifeforms, machines can never EVER assimilate a biological form, for this would make them inefficient.
3) you'll like this one: in any cases regarding how aliens can challenge marines in space refer to:
Spaceship Troopers
-or-
Aliens
phew that was long... maybe I'll turn this post into a thesis!
Like "Aliens" ns_origin and its hive "biodome" suggest that the Kharaa were most likely some sort of bacterial mistake made by scientiets fooling with nature (much like Aliens). Thus this would eliminate the need to travel to marine stations seeming as they probably, as nem said, were transported by TSAs own transport ships. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually the biodome was used to study the kharaa, not for scientists to "play with nature"
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
A new science annex was constructed to study the Kharaa and Bacterium under laboratory conditions<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol dude, just because the map is named origin doesnt mean it has to be the kharaa came from there...
Though, I like your idea bistro, at least it sounds like a valid explanation for the Kharaa. I kind of wish the devs had spent much more time on making a story for the game. I mean, the one the have is fine, but I think myself and others would want much much more detail.
FedEx
Like "Aliens" ns_origin and its hive "biodome" suggest that the Kharaa were most likely some sort of bacterial mistake made by scientiets fooling with nature (much like Aliens). Thus this would eliminate the need to travel to marine stations seeming as they probably, as nem said, were transported by TSAs own transport ships.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->As has already been brought up, that facility was specifically created to study the Kharaa. They wouldn't have holograms of the things ready-made if that's the first place they were spotted, unless somebody intended for the Kharaa to turn out that way all along. (Which would, in fact, make the idea that we created the Kharaa even more likely. Keep in mind, I'm not presupposing tiny metal robots here when I say "nanites." That's what they usually are, but if we were to create a lifeform to do our bidding out of organic material, essentially a germ, that'd really be the same thing in different clothing.)<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2) (snip discussion of biological vs. technological)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->You're making the same mistakes here regarding the nature of technology as Nemesis. Computers are made such that they are always perfect in theoretical terms, with ideal numbers. Put such a thing in the real world (with our current level of technology) and see what happens. We have immense trouble making a bipedal robot that operates stably, and most other mobility problems are just now being tackled, we're just now learning how to make robots that can deal with sensory information in something close to the way we do, making a machine that is self-changing or self-repairing (let alone self-improving or self-replicating) are still beyond our grasp. Computers don't think in ways that translate well to the real world yet. These abilities are all squarely in the realm of living things. They are better at it in every way.
The reason I see this is as a viable theory is that the entire concept of nanotechnology (applied as it is in the game) hinges on the assumption that we have found a way to make machines that act like living things. Machines that understand what is efficient in the real world, rather than what is efficient in hypothetical vacuum.<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3) you'll like this one: in any cases regarding how aliens can challenge marines in space refer to:
Spaceship Troopers
-or-
Aliens<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm afraid I don't understand your point here.
Anyway, there's one other thing I'd like to address: as far as we know, nothing like the Kharaa organism has ever been spotted in the wild. They just seem to show up on our ships, as if from nowhere. Where did they come from, if not from us?
Here's how I think this works. The Kharaa started off as some new prototype nanomachine. (Whether it is organic or metallic is largely immaterial, though I would lean towards metallic, simply because it uses nanosludge to make both buildings and organisms, and because it infects metal objects.) This nanomachine was made such that it could change and adapt on its own, a first, since most nanites still need to have instructions to do anything other than procreate. After these machines began to be released, (most likely secretly for some political reason or other) something went wrong with them, and they began to damage the things they were put into. When we attempted to purge them, they fought back. Their small scale allowed them to evolve new things very quickly, much as a normal virus or bacteria would, and they eventually learned how to draw knowledge from our own databases regarding things other than the construction work we had designed them for. From this, they learned how to make large-scale organisms which could succesfully operate in the real world, by copying and the patterns they saw which were already known to be successful, and modifying them for optimized combat, since their main purpose is to flush us out of a system they now think of as theirs. This is why their basic forms are so recognizable; a dog becomes a skulk, a person becomes a fade, etc.
"General Reiner, let's see your report on Project 15"
"Well, if everyone willl avert their eyes towards the holo-projector I will show you a 3d prototype of the expected resulting lifeform."
"oooo, ahhhh!, wow!"
"It has superior......
....... Lifeform X92Z4Q, or the "FADE" as our staff like to call it, will be marked for experimentation in the near future..."
As a purely biological entity, the Kharaa are entireley possible. Spores have been found in space that have been traced to their origins on earth. You read correctly. Bacterial spores from earth have managed to float their way into orbit of the planet and leaves a trail behind the planet. If all life were to be exterminated from the surface of the earth, then it could theoretically start anew from these spores. Consider now that some of these spores are being blown by the solar wind into deep space, and you've got life migrating out of here.
Times up, see you guys after work <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Through the nanogrid. The same way the marines move the nanosludge/steam around. Except instead of creating weapons or armor with it, they ingest it/metabolize it, lending further weight to the original posters idea. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And to @nthony, aren't living things just highly advanced multi-unit nano machines anyway?
And I disagree with NS_origin. It was by no means the origin of the Kharaa. There's another story for that entirely. Origin was a base set up to study them in labratory conditions.. using "Nano-penicillin" to pacify them when needed. Of course, they eventually made a bunch of oni (Only took a few weeks to save up the 900 resources. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) and broke down the walls. As for why marines were dropped in: Well, there was actually valuable data collected; Data that needs to be retrieved before the base is abandoned completely.
Contrary to popular opinion on the boards, the aliens are not an attacking force. Marines are. Hives, skulks, gorgies, lerks, fades.. all that.. All of them are made in response to a threat.. You know, the marines. If a base is left alone by marines, the bacteria becomes dormant.. And to be honest, I find it rather silly why the TSA hasn't quarentined ALL possibly infected stations and nuked 'em.
In fact, the start of the backstory was them finding a system in ULTRA deep space, getting pizowned by these aliens, then quarentining it.. since nothing happened, they sent a team to investigate.. and they got pizowned by "new" kharaa.
i myself, always wanted to make a movie of this,seeing it would be very hard to doit just right with AVI and Demos i thought i could become an actor, make good money, and possably come up with "Natural Selection the movie or something" so 007Bistromath (fine ill copy and paste it, your name is too complex) perhaps in 7-8 years if i move to the states we could hook up and think something up with this thread in mind, thinking ahead ill watch this thread and perhaps make a summerized wordpad file (if the thread continues like this with such large posts i couldent make it into txt and open it with notepad :/)
also, i always just thought the ailens were part machine too, the ailens just learned to control the machine and gave it nanosluge for its source of energy, or an experiment gone horrbly wrong with "robot and life tech", wow, quarter of semester of no biology 11 has messed me up a tad.
if you ask me tho, i now go with 007Bistromath's concept, and i hope this is stickied and that were sucessful in makeing a movie.
hmmm.....
if the hive is used to spawn in aliens after one has been lost in battle, that would mean that aliens didn't always have a hive since the hive was only made to spawn in replacements, which mean an indivuisual alien does not need a hive to survive.
So why would aliens slowly die when all the hives are destroyed? <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
... game balance. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->