Welder

Pi_GiPi_Gi Join Date: 2002-03-16 Member: 324Members
<div class="IPBDescription">weapon still?</div> Remember back in the days of yore, when the welder was a feasible weapon?

as in...it was effective at destroying alien structures...and torching skulks?

erm....is the welder still doing damage? any? because it seems to be a lot easier to kill structures with a knife now.....

so...basic question....does the wleder still do damage?

Comments

  • esunaesuna Rock Bottom Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15175Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Pi Gi+Mar 22 2004, 03:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pi Gi @ Mar 22 2004, 03:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Remember back in the days of yore, when the welder was a feasible weapon?

    as in...it was effective at destroying alien structures...and torching skulks?

    erm....is the welder still doing damage? any? because it seems to be a lot easier to kill structures with a knife now.....

    so...basic question....does the wleder still do damage? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It still does, but the thing is, it's not an offensive weapon, and shouldn't be used as such. Think of it more as a tool than a weapon.

    And hasn't the knife always been more effective at taking down alien structures?
    *tries to remember the 1.04 days*
  • GadzukoGadzuko Join Date: 2002-12-26 Member: 11556Members, Constellation
    No, the welder used to do more damage than the knife per second. It was nerfed, because it's a tool and not a weapon. However, the fact that you can now have a welder and a pistol/mines balances that out.
  • CypherCypher Join Date: 2003-03-16 Member: 14579Members
    yeah...1.04 welder did more, 2.0 they were almost the same, except knife did a little more, and now in 3.0 knife does alot more...I dont think it makes sense though, seems like a torch would hurt a fleshy, goo-like substance more than knifing it.

    I think a welder should do more, I dont see why not...
  • AvengerXAvengerX Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
    well if I dunno bout you but sticking a welder up someones but sure should do a lot more damage then one slash of a knife, its a tool yes but its allso very hot and could scold and burn skulk flesh very easily.
  • SariselSarisel .::&#39; ( O ) &#39;;:-. .-.:;&#39; ( O ) &#39;::. Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18557Members, Constellation
    The welder sucks now. It hardly does any damage.
  • FCCFCC Join Date: 2003-07-16 Member: 18218Members
    It doesn't really matter whether the welder or knife does more damage to aliens lifeforms. If you have to resort to knifing/welding during a battle, you are in trouble anyways, and the damage difference won't help.

    As for buildings, the difference, in my opinion, is too insignificant.
  • InvaznInvazn Join Date: 2004-03-04 Member: 27142Members
    Welders aren't made for offense they are made to fix, and open things. Cause if i had to fight a alien i wouldnt run at it with a welder
  • PetcoPetco Join Date: 2003-07-27 Member: 18478Members, Constellation
    edited March 2004
    *me remebers the old 1.04 days where i asked for a welder and killed 6 skulks with it without dieing. *Me Also remebers when welding a building a skulk might go near the weld and die while me welds
  • OrganoXOrganoX Join Date: 2004-03-21 Member: 27473Members
    the welder got changed after 3.0 beta 2 or beta 3. The welder got a new sound. And its shorter then before and the "attack speed" is slower coz its shorter sound. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Members
    I believe the welder now does 4 hp/sec of damage, while it repairs structures and armor at 64 hp/sec. So, the welder is quite effective at what it is meant for, but welder kills are probably going to be as rare as leap kills.
  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    I can't really see the welder as a more powerful alein killer then a knife, but if it can be used as a fixer for a metal structure I would assume it would also be a fairly effective unfixer for and organic structure...
  • RaZaRaZa Join Date: 2003-08-24 Member: 20144Members, Constellation
    I'd like to see the welder do more damage than the knife, purely because you actually pay for it, so I think it would be be a nice little bonus, as it would actually give the welder another use (other than just for func_weldable's).

    Also, why exactly did they change the welder in 3.0 (it sorta burst-fires now). I just can't figure it out...it's been driving me nuts.
  • Ph0enixPh0enix Join Date: 2002-10-08 Member: 1462Members, Constellation
    AFAIK welder dmg got nerfed due to heavies being able to fight off aliens <i>whilst</i> welding each other up.
  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->well if I dunno bout you but sticking a welder up someones but sure should do a lot more damage then one slash of a knife, its a tool yes but its allso very hot and could scold and burn skulk flesh very easily. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    No, the ammount of energy needed to vaporize water is <i>huge</i> thus you'll only scorch the skin a little, especially if you don't make direct contact but rely on air to transmit heat. A knife on the other hand, one good slash to a human is lethal, more so than getting shot as long as the head isn't involved.

    There's a reason you don't see any lethal welding accidents in the news.
  • LastLast Join Date: 2003-10-06 Member: 21463Members
    i managed to get a lucky fade kill with the new welder. it was the only one I've seen since the update though.
  • RaVeRaVe Join Date: 2003-06-20 Member: 17538Members
    A welder is a tool, and shall be used as a tool. As such, it has been nerfed so that they're pretty much useless in combat, but extremely effective for welding. In fact, the welder still welds buildings at the same rate as before the new RoF.

    Knives in the other hand, are weapons. As such, they should be able to do more damage.

    In fact, it won't make sense when Tool > Weapon. Heck if it was, might as well put in bulldozers :/
  • UKchaosUKchaos Join Date: 2002-08-10 Member: 1132Members
    I miss HA-Welder rushes...
  • StakhanovStakhanov Join Date: 2003-03-12 Member: 14448Members
    Imho , the welder should do blast damage. It makes sense that a torch damages the bacterial mat faster than a knife... it would be cost effective to drop them to light armors that way (faster RT razing)
  • MightyDarKMightyDarK Join Date: 2004-03-13 Member: 27322Members, Constellation
    welder does 4 dmg slow. knife does 30 dmg a little faster .. so knife is MUCH better ... miss old days to <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • MamboKingMamboKing Join Date: 2004-03-06 Member: 27169Members
    The welder is the most cost-effective thing you can buy in the game. Having it do damage too is a bit much (especially now that it dosen't take a pistol slot).
  • KaMiKaZe1KaMiKaZe1 Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9196Members
    I remember the days of the 9 man HA/Welder rush. The comm would tech to HA and suit up the entire team as soon as he could, then they would just walk towards a hive and weld it down. I routinely saw these welder trains take down fades.

    Good times.
  • NikonNikon Join Date: 2003-09-29 Member: 21313Members, Constellation
    I thought I read that the welders RoF is now random in the changelog, but I cant seem to find the beta3 changelog anywhere, meh...
  • AhnteisAhnteis teh Bob Join Date: 2002-10-02 Member: 1405Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    Yes, the random speed was in a changelog. Don't remember which beta though.
  • A_Damn_FoolA_Damn_Fool Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19283Members
    It is odd that a knife does more damage to structures then a welder (with my limited experiance in welding I'd say its alot like a MIG or a plasma cutter) I dont belive it should do more damage to units (though in fact it probaly would but that just be nutty) than a knife but for structures it should be the ultimate tool because if any of us have ever seen what happens to flesh when a direct flame such as a welders torch hits it, it will literally peel it back VERY FAST this would be much faster then a non-serated knife but since im no coder and not very smart when it comes to different damage attributes I dont know if you could make it do a certain amount of damage to one thing while doing a certain amount to another.
  • InsomniaInsomnia Join Date: 2003-06-10 Member: 17179Members
    I remember 1.0 were welders did as much damage as an hmg if u welded the hive. Oh those were the days
  • DaxxDaxx Join Date: 2002-04-16 Member: 460Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin-Soylent green+Mar 22 2004, 06:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent green @ Mar 22 2004, 06:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->well if I dunno bout you but sticking a welder up someones but sure should do a lot more damage then one slash of a knife, its a tool yes but its allso very hot and could scold and burn skulk flesh very easily. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    No, the ammount of energy needed to vaporize water is <i>huge</i> thus you'll only scorch the skin a little, especially if you don't make direct contact but rely on air to transmit heat. A knife on the other hand, one good slash to a human is lethal, more so than getting shot as long as the head isn't involved.

    There's a reason you don't see any lethal welding accidents in the news. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Not to mention pushing a hot torch into wet flesh will either cool it down very fast, or require massive amounts of energy to keep the heat up. And a little hand torch couldn't do that.

    Try welding a watermelon, see how far you get before it sputters out, or you electrocute yourself.

    A knife is far more lethal than a welder.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin-RaZa+Mar 22 2004, 04:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RaZa @ Mar 22 2004, 04:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also, why exactly did they change the welder in 3.0 (it sorta burst-fires now). I just can't figure it out...it's been driving me nuts. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I don't think a reason was given in the changelog, but the benefit in my eyes is that it nerfs the JP fly-by welding; now if you fly full speed at a web with your welder out you'll often miss it between welder bursts and get webbed. It was ridiculous when you could clear them that way, especially since webs became hive 3(and nerfed in every other way).
  • Ph0enixPh0enix Join Date: 2002-10-08 Member: 1462Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-A Damn Fool+Mar 23 2004, 02:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (A Damn Fool @ Mar 23 2004, 02:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It is odd that a knife does more damage to structures then a welder (with my limited experiance in welding I'd say its alot like a MIG or a plasma cutter)

    snip...

    but since im no coder and not very smart when it comes to different damage attributes I dont know if you could make it do a certain amount of damage to one thing while doing a certain amount to another. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    IIRC a welder is simply a device which dispenses nanites to repair structures/armour. So its not much like a MIG welder really.

    Variable damage is already in. Turrets and OCs do 1/2 damage to Onos/HA respectively.
  • Pi_GiPi_Gi Join Date: 2002-03-16 Member: 324Members
    Well...if that's the technology behind the welder I guess it makes sense....

    so...if we just assume that the welder dispenses little fixer robots I'm content. But then why is it called a welder?

    Nomenclature aside...I'd like to see the welder do more damage to structures. I mean....I know it's ridiculous to whip out the welder when an onos is charging in...so I'd at least like to use the welder to destroy kharaa res tower. But I will concede that the point is valid that the welder was designed to be a repair tool and thus should do nil to no damage. However...if that were the case...why not just make the welder completely inoffensive?
  • A_Damn_FoolA_Damn_Fool Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19283Members
    Oooh my bad I never really noticed that though I did wonder how the welder closed doors by welding a panel in the wall. Makes much more sense now should probaly call it a Nano-Repair gun <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> but if thats what it does I guess it shouldnt do any damage at all then... heck it could actually repair aliens then <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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