The Balance Of Power Has Been Flipped On Its Head
Mintman
Join Date: 2003-05-30 Member: 16866Members
Join Date: 2003-05-30 Member: 16866Members
<div class="IPBDescription">NS: Classic</div> Thinking about why it had become less fun to play as alien, I came across this thought. The balance of power with the two teams has been turned on its head. In 1.04 the marines fought the aliens to gain territory and obtains resource nodes. The more territory they gained, the more resources they had and the better they were equiped to reclaim more territory. In short, the alien's expansion was checked by the resource system and the marine's expansion was checked by the aliens. Marines fought back the infestation to victory.
Nowadays you have the complete opposite in my opinion. The marines now start off controlling the map and the aliens have to fight to get territory back off them.
A couple of good marines will mostly have a free roam of the map. Mainly due to the aliens having to spread out and get about half the number of nodes as there are players, aswell as trying to halt the progress of the marines. In 1.04 you had the whole team bar one attempting to halt the expansion of the marines THE ENTIRE TIME, aswell as their expansion being slower due to the increased cost of structures (22 for an RT if I remember right). Now you more often than not have 2 people as gorge, detracting from the offensive force of the team quite considerably, especially in the vital early game. It now seems to me that the aliens almost have to gain a foothold on the map at the start and expand from there. Meaning that they, in fact, have to establish the infestation which the marines try to prevent spreading.
Nowadays you have the complete opposite in my opinion. The marines now start off controlling the map and the aliens have to fight to get territory back off them.
A couple of good marines will mostly have a free roam of the map. Mainly due to the aliens having to spread out and get about half the number of nodes as there are players, aswell as trying to halt the progress of the marines. In 1.04 you had the whole team bar one attempting to halt the expansion of the marines THE ENTIRE TIME, aswell as their expansion being slower due to the increased cost of structures (22 for an RT if I remember right). Now you more often than not have 2 people as gorge, detracting from the offensive force of the team quite considerably, especially in the vital early game. It now seems to me that the aliens almost have to gain a foothold on the map at the start and expand from there. Meaning that they, in fact, have to establish the infestation which the marines try to prevent spreading.
Comments
True. But I'll also suggest that it feels that way to me a lot of the time now also, I just haven't been able to express it as well.
So, while not true in every game, I think it's a general enough case that his argument still applies.
From 2.0 onwards, the aliens could expand far more quickly than the marines. However, it was harder to check the advance of the marine team than it was in 1.04 due to electrification, shotguns etc. However, I must agree that 1.04 gave the marines a sense of "fighting of the alien infestation", since the game was more tension-ridden then. Losing a gorge was fatal, and the aliens did not need that many rts to survive. And of course that overpowering feeling when you receive your first JP/HMG in time.
Starting with the potential of controlling it is not the same as starting with control of it.
Starting with the potential of controlling it is not the same as starting with control of it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
For good aliens, it is
Starting with the potential of controlling it is not the same as starting with control of it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For good aliens, it is <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
OK, how do scrim'ers do it?
I did say that they expanded in terms of nodes and so forth at the same speed due to the aliens having to wait on res to build structures with the area they controlled. However, the aliens controlled all the map where there weren't marine structures. Now they control where they have structures and they often don't really control those areas either.
Also, could any of the players disagreeing give examples of how and when this is not true. Also how to achieve a proper state of control on the map and so forth. Thankyou <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Starting with the potential of controlling it is not the same as starting with control of it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For good aliens, it is <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OK, how do scrim'ers do it? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
For starters on how to take advantage of the map as aliens, go back and read the 1.00 manual.
Just set up ambushes, parasite marines as they walk around, note carefully of where they are going... and as soon as you get the chance, BITE THEM!
Play passively, but agressive at the first good chance you get. If aliens always were to do this, it becomes extreamlly difficult for marines to win.
Aliens can get to key chokepoints and take forward ground first. Take advantage of this.
Go watch some demo's as well.
Aliens can't really stop marines from taking ground in most cases, but they can quickly take it back unless they waste valuable resources on static defences, which slows their expansion in other areas.
One of the problems I've noticed on pubs is that 80% of the team will run off and gorge 1 node, some often dieing with the node they dropped in the proccess. This leaves a good majority of the team not harrasing or scouting the marines, not to mention having no offense for the first few minutes.
Or the more commonly known problem, noone dropping rts leading to slow res flow.
The last few pubs I've played, and lost, as aliens (or atleast had a hell of a time just trying to stay alive) the gorge ratio vs skulks on the team was 2 to 1 sometimes 3 to 1. For some reason, everyone wants to be a gorge or an onos now.
however low evolution aliens have no way of destroying electrified rts until either second hive (even then skulks can't do anything) or until a fade comes along.
marines expand and can easily defend it with structures, aliens can't. unless you want all of your skulks to gorge, leaving you with no offensive capabality.
marines can build and stay offensive, aliens have to remove any kind of fighting ability and use resources that would be greatly needed later in the game to evolve.
1.04 gorges need to return.
Marines expand slowly but retain whatever ground they gain.
Marines expand slowly but retain whatever ground they gain. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That sounds about right to me.. which is why the comment at the start of the thread feels right as well. The marines aren't fighting off an alien infestation. The aliens are trying to hold back a marine infestation.
Edit: Actually.. change this. This sounds right in the early game.
In mid to late games, aliens can start making some come-backs.
Yet this still fits in with the theory.. the aliens haven't infested, the marines have.
And according to what you say, does that mean aliens NEED to win quick or not at all? Where as all the marines have to do is drag out the game?