<!--QuoteBegin-clamatius+Jul 14 2004, 07:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (clamatius @ Jul 14 2004, 07:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->v0.93 is now available from <a href='https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=76903' target='_blank'>here</a>.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> clamatius, a question regarding wb boost - if I type "wb boost 3" in server console I notice for a brief moment sv_cheats are enabled then disabled. I assume this is necessary to givexp to the bots. What I want to understand is actually 2 things:<ul><li>Does "wb boost 3" give the bot 3 xp, and if so what will the bot do with these 3 xp - will he evolve to a higher lifeform or will he get upgrades?</li><li>If you were to type "wb boost 21" in console (assuming server has extralevels plugin) would the bot be given 21 xp?</li></ul>Love your whichbots dood! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
What it is actually doing is executing the cheats command "givepoints" or "givexp" N times, where N is the number you had in the boost command. The range for N is 1 to 15. Each point is about 1/3 to 1/2 of a level, as I recall.
If you wanted a boost of 21, you'd have to do a boost of 15 then one of 6.
I normally found a boost of 3 to provide reasonable gameplay - you usually see the full range of alien lifeforms at that point.
Note that only aliens currently on are boosted, so if you do it before the round starts it won't have any effect. Late-joining aliens will be similarly unaffected.
<!--QuoteBegin-clamatius+Oct 1 2004, 11:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (clamatius @ Oct 1 2004, 11:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What it is actually doing is executing the cheats command "givepoints" or "givexp" N times, where N is the number you had in the boost command. The range for N is 1 to 15. Each point is about 1/3 to 1/2 of a level, as I recall.
If you wanted a boost of 21, you'd have to do a boost of 15 then one of 6.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In Combat "wb boost" is creating this problem: anytime sv_cheats is enabled <b>all</b> aliens are given free xp. Therefore if you had "wb boost 3" bound to any key and hit this key repeatedly, not only the bots but <b>ALL</b> alien players would receive free xp everytime the key was struck.
I would likewise expect in an NS game that ALL alien players would receive free "givepoints" each time you wb boosted the bots.
This being said, I suggest you disable this feature.
Here's the changelog: <ul><li>Updated Metamod on Windows to 1.17.2.1. See here for details: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=79561&st=30' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...pic=79561&st=30</a>. This version seems to have the least compatibility issues of all the ones I tried.</li><li>Updated Metamod on Linux to 1.17.2p10. See here for details: <a href='http://forums.unitedadmins.com/index.php?showtopic=39088' target='_blank'>http://forums.unitedadmins.com/index.php?showtopic=39088</a>. This version seems to have the least compatibility issues of all the ones I tried.</li><li>Added a fix for a problem associated with HL moving time backwards a very small amount from frame to frame. The symptom of this was that gorges would get very confused and start spinning in hive areas.</li><li>Upgraded Linux build to gcc 3.2.3.</li><li>Upgraded Windows build to Visual Studio 6, SP6.</li><li>Upgraded STLport to 4.6.2.</li><li>Link against Valve's HL .so in the Linux build.</li><li>Updated to use libsupc++.a on Linux (static link of STLport).</li><li>Added a method so bots can now tell if they're stuck to a ladder.</li><li>Altered "hit waypoint" logic on ladders (should help with the problem where bots thought they'd got to the top of the ladder but hadn't).</li><li>Don't run "back up and try again" routine when on a ladder.</li><li>Don't jump when trying to climb a ladder.</li><li>Fixed combat evolution issue in beta 5 - bots no longer have to evolve to gorge before other life forms.</li><li>Fix for a problem where fades would often blink into the ceiling and stick there. Blinking now should be somewhat more controlled. Also fixed a bug where fades sometimes wouldn't slash marines when they could.</li><li>Tweaked collision detection for Onos. They would sometimes get stuck on low obstacles (especially alien buildings) and now them seem to be doing a bit better.</li><li>New waypoints for NS 3.0 beta 5. Updated maps from me: ns_nancy, ns_lost. From gruuunt: co_core, co_daimos, co_sava, ns_agora, ns_altair, ns_bast, ns_hera, ns_metal. Thanks gruuunt!</li><li>Added a new command, "wb boost <number>", where the number should be an integer between 1 and 15. It gives all currently present bots a boost in xp/res. Note that you must do it after the round starts. This is still a work in progress - I realise it's hard currently for server admins to have an automatic boost for the bots. I'm planning to add more code to make that easier when time permits.
In Combat testing, "wb boost 3" made for a much more exciting game where the bots achieved the full range of lifeforms.
You can also enable "/wb boost" as a global say command by editing whichbot.txt. UPDATE: I'm informed there's a bug in this command that gives experience to all alien players, not just bots. I do not recommend you enable the global say command.</li></ul> Enjoy!
<!--QuoteBegin-clamatius+Oct 4 2004, 12:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (clamatius @ Oct 4 2004, 12:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The global say command is disabled in the config file by default, I believe.
Bug duly noted - I'll try to get it fixed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I didn't even have this global say in my whichbot.txt. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> # wb command in this way: add a line saying "say_command_<cmdname>=1" and you're done. say_command_balance=0 say_command_add=0 say_command_remove=0<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm, that's interesting (and really bad, if you're right). I shall investigate.
{edit}Investigated. You are correct in that if the command is run, it gives xp to human players as well as bots. That's a bug and will be fixed.
Obviously, I'm worried by your implication of an exploit that's enabled by default. However, the global say command is not activated by default and players won't be able to use it unless you specifically alter the config file to add it. You'd have to have rcon access (in which case you could just enable cheats and cheat anyway).
So, irritating - but not a total disaster. {/edit}
The problem is that res overflows between aliens. So if you do a high boost (say, 10) in a normal NS game, res will overflow from the bots to the human alien players if there are any.
Solutions:<ul><li>Only use "wb boost" in Combat games.</li><li>Only use small values of boost so that the res doesn't overflow.</li></ul>Hope that helps. If people want it, I guess I could add a feature where boost is disabled in NS Classic but enabled in Combat. *shrug*
<!--QuoteBegin-clamatius+Oct 6 2004, 07:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (clamatius @ Oct 6 2004, 07:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I took a look at the boost issue.
The problem is that res overflows between aliens. So if you do a high boost (say, 10) in a normal NS game, res will overflow from the bots to the human alien players if there are any.
Solutions:<ul><li>Only use "wb boost" in Combat games.</li><li>Only use small values of boost so that the res doesn't overflow.</li></ul>Hope that helps. If people want it, I guess I could add a feature where boost is disabled in NS Classic but enabled in Combat. *shrug* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I have never used boost in an ns game. Heading to the server to test again.
@clamatius, is there any way to make a map.cfg (or anything else) whereas Whichbots would only be utilized in Combat maps? I have "wb add" in my server.cfg which adds a bot at each changelevel but I really dont want them on ns maps (by default).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->@clamatius, is there any way to make a map.cfg (or anything else) whereas Whichbots would only be utilized in Combat maps? I have "wb add" in my server.cfg which adds a bot at each changelevel but I really dont want them on ns maps (by default). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not that I know of. Sounds like the kind of thing where a simple AMX or Adminmod script should be able to do it. It does sound like a useful feature though, so maybe I'll get round to adding it.
<!--QuoteBegin-clamatius+Oct 18 2004, 11:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (clamatius @ Oct 18 2004, 11:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->@clamatius, is there any way to make a map.cfg (or anything else) whereas Whichbots would only be utilized in Combat maps? I have "wb add" in my server.cfg which adds a bot at each changelevel but I really dont want them on ns maps (by default). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not that I know of. Sounds like the kind of thing where a simple AMX or Adminmod script should be able to do it. It does sound like a useful feature though, so maybe I'll get round to adding it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That would be great! The reason I want the option to add them to a ns map and not have it mandatory is I find it very common for 2 marines to gang up against 1 bot and overbuild the beejeebies out of my server (no, wb add twice isn't an option).
I have to say, as skulks or lerks these bots are formiddable opponents. As fades they're so so, and as onos ... well they are slap ate up with the dumb **** gettin' stuck all the while.
If you haven't tried bots in a while because of the bad rap they once got, give v0.94 a shot - you won't be sorry. Now, a question for the clamatius ...
Out of 10 named bots on my server, 3 of them are outstanding, always having a positive k/d ratio and often PWNing. How is it that some of these bots (again, normally skulk or lerk) repeatedly PWN while others are average?
Probably because of the reason you describe - the skulks and lerks probably get more kills and by default those bots happen to be more likely to choose those lifeforms.
I know Onos still needs more love - I think Fades have got a lot better in the last few versions but they also still need work. Skulks and lerks generally seem to be fine now.
Comments
<span style='color:white'>Unpinned.</span>
New permanent thread <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=75671' target='_blank'>here</a>.
clamatius, a question regarding wb boost - if I type "wb boost 3" in server console I notice for a brief moment sv_cheats are enabled then disabled. I assume this is necessary to givexp to the bots. What I want to understand is actually 2 things:<ul><li>Does "wb boost 3" give the bot 3 xp, and if so what will the bot do with these 3 xp - will he evolve to a higher lifeform or will he get upgrades?</li><li>If you were to type "wb boost 21" in console (assuming server has extralevels plugin) would the bot be given 21 xp?</li></ul>Love your whichbots dood! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you wanted a boost of 21, you'd have to do a boost of 15 then one of 6.
I normally found a boost of 3 to provide reasonable gameplay - you usually see the full range of alien lifeforms at that point.
Note that only aliens currently on are boosted, so if you do it before the round starts it won't have any effect. Late-joining aliens will be similarly unaffected.
Hope that helps.
If you wanted a boost of 21, you'd have to do a boost of 15 then one of 6.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In Combat "wb boost" is creating this problem: anytime sv_cheats is enabled <b>all</b> aliens are given free xp. Therefore if you had "wb boost 3" bound to any key and hit this key repeatedly, not only the bots but <b>ALL</b> alien players would receive free xp everytime the key was struck.
I would likewise expect in an NS game that ALL alien players would receive free "givepoints" each time you wb boosted the bots.
This being said, I suggest you disable this feature.
Bug duly noted - I'll try to get it fixed.
<a href='http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/whichbot/whichbot-nsbeta-v0_94.zip?download' target='_blank'>Download</a>
Here's the changelog:
<ul><li>Updated Metamod on Windows to 1.17.2.1. See here for details: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=79561&st=30' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...pic=79561&st=30</a>. This version seems to have the least compatibility issues of all the ones I tried.</li><li>Updated Metamod on Linux to 1.17.2p10. See here for details: <a href='http://forums.unitedadmins.com/index.php?showtopic=39088' target='_blank'>http://forums.unitedadmins.com/index.php?showtopic=39088</a>. This version seems to have the least compatibility issues of all the ones I tried.</li><li>Added a fix for a problem associated with HL moving time backwards a very small amount from frame to frame. The symptom of this was that gorges would get very confused and start spinning in hive areas.</li><li>Upgraded Linux build to gcc 3.2.3.</li><li>Upgraded Windows build to Visual Studio 6, SP6.</li><li>Upgraded STLport to 4.6.2.</li><li>Link against Valve's HL .so in the Linux build.</li><li>Updated to use libsupc++.a on Linux (static link of STLport).</li><li>Added a method so bots can now tell if they're stuck to a ladder.</li><li>Altered "hit waypoint" logic on ladders (should help with the problem where bots thought they'd got to the top of the ladder but hadn't).</li><li>Don't run "back up and try again" routine when on a ladder.</li><li>Don't jump when trying to climb a ladder.</li><li>Fixed combat evolution issue in beta 5 - bots no longer have to evolve to gorge before other life forms.</li><li>Fix for a problem where fades would often blink into the ceiling and stick there. Blinking now should be somewhat more controlled. Also fixed a bug where fades sometimes wouldn't slash marines when they could.</li><li>Tweaked collision detection for Onos. They would sometimes get stuck on low obstacles (especially alien buildings) and now them seem to be doing a bit better.</li><li>New waypoints for NS 3.0 beta 5. Updated maps from me: ns_nancy, ns_lost. From gruuunt: co_core, co_daimos, co_sava, ns_agora, ns_altair, ns_bast, ns_hera, ns_metal. Thanks gruuunt!</li><li>Added a new command, "wb boost <number>", where the number should be an integer between 1 and 15. It gives all currently present bots a boost in xp/res. Note that you must do it after the round starts. This is still a work in progress - I realise it's hard currently for server admins to have an automatic boost for the bots. I'm planning to add more code to make that easier when time permits.
In Combat testing, "wb boost 3" made for a much more exciting game where the bots achieved the full range of lifeforms.
You can also enable "/wb boost" as a global say command by editing whichbot.txt.
UPDATE: I'm informed there's a bug in this command that gives experience to all alien players, not just bots. I do not recommend you enable the global say command.</li></ul>
Enjoy!
Bug duly noted - I'll try to get it fixed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't even have this global say in my whichbot.txt.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> # wb command in this way: add a line saying "say_command_<cmdname>=1" and you're done.
say_command_balance=0
say_command_add=0
say_command_remove=0<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
{edit}Investigated. You are correct in that if the command is run, it gives xp to human players as well as bots. That's a bug and will be fixed.
Obviously, I'm worried by your implication of an exploit that's enabled by default. However, the global say command is not activated by default and players won't be able to use it unless you specifically alter the config file to add it. You'd have to have rcon access (in which case you could just enable cheats and cheat anyway).
So, irritating - but not a total disaster.
{/edit}
The problem is that res overflows between aliens. So if you do a high boost (say, 10) in a normal NS game, res will overflow from the bots to the human alien players if there are any.
Solutions:<ul><li>Only use "wb boost" in Combat games.</li><li>Only use small values of boost so that the res doesn't overflow.</li></ul>Hope that helps. If people want it, I guess I could add a feature where boost is disabled in NS Classic but enabled in Combat. *shrug*
The problem is that res overflows between aliens. So if you do a high boost (say, 10) in a normal NS game, res will overflow from the bots to the human alien players if there are any.
Solutions:<ul><li>Only use "wb boost" in Combat games.</li><li>Only use small values of boost so that the res doesn't overflow.</li></ul>Hope that helps. If people want it, I guess I could add a feature where boost is disabled in NS Classic but enabled in Combat. *shrug* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have never used boost in an ns game.
Heading to the server to test again.
Not that I know of. Sounds like the kind of thing where a simple AMX or Adminmod script should be able to do it. It does sound like a useful feature though, so maybe I'll get round to adding it.
Not that I know of. Sounds like the kind of thing where a simple AMX or Adminmod script should be able to do it. It does sound like a useful feature though, so maybe I'll get round to adding it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would be great! The reason I want the option to add them to a ns map and not have it mandatory is I find it very common for 2 marines to gang up against 1 bot and overbuild the beejeebies out of my server (no, wb add twice isn't an option).
See here:
<a href='http://www.amxmodx.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7002' target='_blank'>http://www.amxmodx.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7002</a>
You can have different configs for each map and load up as many bots as you want per map.
See if this isn't what you needed.
If I don't want Whichbots to go onos, do I set max_fraction_onos to 0.0?
How do I disable the "I am now a pack leader" team say?
If I don't want Whichbots to go onos, do I set max_fraction_onos to 0.0?
How do I disable the "I am now a pack leader" team say? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) Yes.
2) Change bot_chat_enabled to 0 in whichbot.txt
Maybe 0.01 is better? Or use a negative integer?
If you haven't tried bots in a while because of the bad rap they once got, give v0.94 a shot - you won't be sorry. Now, a question for the clamatius ...
Out of 10 named bots on my server, 3 of them are outstanding, always having a positive k/d ratio and often PWNing. How is it that some of these bots (again, normally skulk or lerk) repeatedly PWN while others are average?
I know Onos still needs more love - I think Fades have got a lot better in the last few versions but they also still need work. Skulks and lerks generally seem to be fine now.
Im trying to find the best way to tweak the wb config to create the hardest test for learners on my clan server.
Do you have any recomendations for config settings to get the aliens really dangerous ?
Also how the hell do you get the gorges to build OC ?
Thanks for any help.