Terrut Farm Vs Oc Fortresses
AvengerX
Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
Comments
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You could have only one tf (bad way) or you could have 2 tfs (good way) or even 1 tf electrified and perhaps 2 less turrets (good way).
For aliens, you could create a wall of OCs (bad way) or you could back it up with DCs (good way) or you could spread them out so that siege cannot destroy them all in one try (good way).
Res point for res point, aliens have the advantage with low points, because humans have to build tf and it takes away from building less turrets. Later on though, humans have the advantage with more res points, because sieges can take down entire stacks of alien defense regardless of how well it is designed within a given area.
There's your answer.
I think ultimatly the siege turret will allways be the trump card and I dunno if I like that or not.
Healspray (evolving into gorge) costs twice the amount of res as a welder. The range of effect of healspray isn't exactly huge, either. The more I use it, the more it seems that it can only affect one object at a time. And though the welder only heals marine armor, it heals it much faster than healspray can heal alien health or armor.
Anyway, it's generally easier to build a decent sized turret farm than it is to build a comparable OC wall, due to marines getting centralized resources for building. And as marines have ranged attacks, they can often slowly take out OC walls with minimal deaths. Aliens can't touch turret farms until they get two hives for bilebomb or they get lifeforms above lerk.
-At ten res/OC, I hope you have some spare res lieing around without a better use. Unless your on a team that controls 6+ RTs, there's generally a better way to use that res.
-Grenade launchers and siege turrets can lay waste to an OC farm in one-two minutes. Generally, not game breaking.
-Turrets are close to essential. Otherwise, you base is more than likely gonna be munched by skulks and it will slow you down significantly.
-OCs, on the other hand, are rather ineffective at stopping more than one marine. A few healthpacks and the OCs are dead.
-You can't recycle OCs if you want to.
-A heavy train rolls right past an OC farm, even with DCs to heal it. A solid turret farm can stop an onos, or an entire team. If only acid rocket was better....
Frankly, I find that OCs are useful on occasion, but not so much as turrets are. It might be worth it if the OC will hold a RT for a significant amount of time, but a wall of OCs is often going to accomplish little. Laying down 5 OCs and 2 DCs brings you very close to the cost of an onos, and I'm not counting the res it takes to gorge.
OCs are an annoyance, but turrets can win the game. I don't really have a problem with this, OCs certainly have some advantages. And it certainly feels like aliens are at least on par with marines as of now.
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You should read the whole post wings. He said he put tfs between the two warring factions to prevent any premature damaging. He then recycled the tfs between the two factions and left the tf controlling the 'terruts' <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Although OCs may seem to shoot slower, they have an unpredictable RoF. Sometimes they fire just as fast as a turret, sometimes slower than an Onos can run a meter. Throw in 20 damages per spike, and self-regeneration, OC fortresses win over turret farms.
Of course, sieges make short work of any alien building.
Also, if turret farms were limited to 8 turrets, then onos wouldn't have a problem with them, just like HA doesn't have a problem with 8 OC's. So, I would say that the fact that you can place 20 turrets in a room makes turret farms better.
Things depend on how the fight between stationary defenses elevate in scale, and this also brings up possible questions of balance issues between alien and marine teams.
I believe in the beginning, assuming the OCs aren't able to focus all their attention on the TF<span style='color:yellow'>*</span>, I believe they would win. They have a health advantage, a little regenerative power, a random ROF, and I'm not sure about this, but I think OCs have the damage advantage too. I think turrets only do 10 dmg per shot, while OCs do 20. Not sure about that, and maybe there's some interplay between OCs, turrets, and attacking enemy structures at half damage or something, who knows.
<span style='color:yellow'>*(who knows if they do this or not. I figured they had some form of aiming AI, but I could be wrong and it's just a trigger impulse at the first thing they "see" in range.)</span>
Now, lets assume that it's 8 turrets versus 8 OCs. The OCs will win. ENTER: More turrets. Lets say the com droped, oh, 16 turrets. Maybe in ns_nancy's large cargo bay, with three or four different TFs set up to provide coverage. And because there's lots of flat land in this hypothetical room, they can all shoot at the OCs. The OCs will lose this battle.
Now, enter alien stationary support structures. Namely, DCs, which heal at a rate of 10 HP per click to all surrounding alien structures. For each DC, the line of 8 OCs is given slightly more ablative resistance over time. Lets assume our friendly gorge stumbles upon 80 res, and drops 8 DCs behind the line of OCs, with a crawlspace between them. OCs will EASILY win this one.
Now, enter LA Welder marine, complete coward, hides behind the turrets welding them as best he can, ignoring the wall of OCs entirely. I think at this point, to inflict enough damage to kill even one OC, the entire phalanx of 16 turrets would have to focus on just one of them at a time. Thanks to the welder rate, the turrets in the front stay in a decent enough shape to continue firing indefinately. Turrets win.
Now, enter Gorge. For our hypothetical example, we must obviously be at the endgame, so assume gorgie has adren and can drop a nearby MC to give him constant adren boosts. He wedges himself in the cracks between OCs and DCs and healsprays like mad. I don't think even 16 turrets can put down enough firepower at this point to eventually kill even one OC, assuming turrets only do 10 dmg per click.
At this point, neither side wins, and it's a stalemate.
Now, lets say the com upgrades the turret factory to a siege factory. With a wall of 8 DCs supporting 8 OCs, one or two sieges should be enough. If he puts down even one siege cannon, the wall will eventually be eroded by the sustained blasts, with a slight chance of killing the gorge if he isn't careful about the explosion radius. I say slight chance because he is surrounded by 8 DCs. I think they can actually heal him fast enough so that he can be taking a hit every few seconds and still be happy and cute. Turrets win this one.
The next step in the stationary defense arms race is multiple healspray gorges. Assuming that our room isn't big enough to fit 16 OCs with 8 on each side, those 8 OCs are maxed out for their damage. You can't put down more than 8 of any alien structure down in one place. Even with OCs' quick ROF, a few welder marines concentrating on one turret at a time can easily heal them fast enough to keep up. OCs have reached their maximum effect as offensive siege devices.
At this point, all the com has to do is keep dropping sieges and it's done. OCs are going down, DCs are going shortly after, and the marines throw a party.
Even if we assume this is somehow ALSO taking place in a hive room, say ns_nothing's Great Viaduct, with the hive adding to the 8 DCs worth of healing, the most stationary offensive power the aliens are ever going to have is 8 OCs in a line or wall. Roughly 160 per click, assuming OCs do 20 damage. The only way they win is if they somehow hit the TFs, and nobody welds over the damage.
It's not happening for the aliens once things escalate. OCs are more multipurpose than turrets. You can use them to take down electrified or abandoned marine structures without supervision, something you can't do as easily with turrets. Dropping a 10 res tower is easier than a, what, 20 res structure, then 10 res structures around it? Some people even use TFs as electric generators to kill alien RTs at a cost of 50 res. Like most things, aliens have the starting advantage and a guerilla feel to how they operate. But give the marines enough time, and they out-tech the aliens and screw them up royally.
OCs are meant to be more versatile, not merely consigned to stationary area sentry duty. Going gorge somewhere tricky and putting a secret ninja OC up where nobody will see it is something you just cannot do with turrets, due first to their sheer noisyness, and second due to their necesity of a nearby turret factory to operate. OCs are able to be deployed in places that hinder progress long enough for defense to arrive. The closest thing the marines have to it now is a single factory with no turrets, which is then electrified and left in place. It costs 50 res, takes longer, has less range, but does do somewhat respectable damage to any two targets in range, and can pose significant blockages if placed in tight vents or hallways. The cost is absurd however, which is why it's hardly ever seen even in the nubbiest of pubs.
BOO BA BALOOBA A BING BANG BOOM, HA CHA!~ :D</span>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->OC farm is far better at slowing aliens then an oc farm is at slowing marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Entirely true. There's this little thing called "res," and it's probably just a *wee bit* wasted on oc farming.
Turrets are anything but essential. They're borderline useless.