How Do You Counter Fade?

Ballisto · April 2004

<div class="IPBDescription">As comm</div> First off, didn't find anything in search:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=Search&CODE=show&searchid=87560b458643445c19543be14303bca5&search_in=posts&result_type=topics&highlite=fade' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...s&highlite=fade</a>

When I comm, the big thing that gets me is when those super uber awesome fades show up. My rts disappear, as do any squads of sgers I send out fade hunting. It happens so often and bugs me to death. I can never kills the buggers!

What do you guys do?

RaVe · April 2004

By the time they got a Fade, you're probably halfway through Adv. armory research.

Get a mixed squad of LMGs and SGs, preferably having Lv2 weapons researched or being researched.

Have the SGers stand in front of the LMGers, and hope they tear him down.

Remember that a full shotgun squad won't be as efective as a mixed group. (LMGs deal damage from afar, shotties up close when they blink)

If possible, use a 1:1 ratio of shotguns to LMGs.
If they Fade is more difficult to handle, make it a 2:1 ratio.

And if that really doesn't work, resort to RT hunting. This will affect them severely due to their res system (very painful, because I'm mainly an alien player and I always get the nubs on my team)

FCC · April 2004

The Fade's greatest enemy is the shotgun. All you have to do is hand out one or two to some "trustworthy" marines and that Fade will think twice about attacking the group.

Ballisto · April 2004

Yes, and he will think once about taking out all your rts, and do it. And then attrition with lots of skulks (maybe throw in the fade at an opportune moment) will kill the sgers.

MrBen · April 2004

Skulks/lerks slowly destroy your shotgun squad, meanwhile the fade has his way with your rts and suddenly you're **** and left to sit in base and just watch the endgame, does this sound familiar?

Buggy · April 2004

OOOOOOOhhhhhk. lets see.

We need a microphone, at least decent marines, an observatory, shotguns, a phase gate in some interesting position somewhere, and leadership.

example ns_veil, you have a pg/tf in cargo, alien hive is pipeline.

1: You beacon, spam shotguns for all at base, while shouting to your marines to listen up, and NOT go through the phase gate. Tell them that your little outpost can rot for all you care.

2: Explain the plan. Thisll most likely be something along the lines of "we take out their hive by going here, but NOT by the phase gate".

3: Since the fades will most likely take the bait and be occupied by taking out the phase gate/turrets in cargo, Set the waypoint, lead your shotgun team to the position you like, while telling them to WALK there, for example top of Pipeline. Now you can either set up a siege outpost if you happen to have been discovered, or go in and kill the hive.

If the aliens find out about your attack, your problem (the fades) will be there as well. Since everyone will be yielding a shotgun, the fade, regardless of skill, will NOT succeed in stopping your siege outpost, and either fail to save the hive, or putting themself in an overdose of danger, and die trying to protect their hive.

If the aliens havent found out about your attack, well, gg, since their only hive just died. (assuming they never attempted to build subsector.).

Beating good fades is hard, but it can be done by putting the pressure on them, instead of letting them put pressure on you.

Crono5 · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ballisto @ Apr 8 2004, 07:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> What do you guys do?  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Shoot it. With guns, preferably.

Seriously, a few shotgunners will take down a Fade right quick.

Niteowl · April 2004

a really uber fade is really hard to counter. one thing that i find effective (in addition to mixed arms) is to siege a hive right away. pulls the fade off of pressuring your rts. and draws him to your sgs.

so in summary : early siege (like at gametime 5:00)

Thardin · April 2004

My advice:

LMG/Shotty combo, much like firebat/marine combinations.

Hand out 2 welders, and they will be good to go when the occasional medpack drop.

WPN2 and A1 perfereably researched.

Fades will decimate moronic teams, so you can't counter them with bad marines.

Go in a group and yell at your team about group importance.

Be on the offensive, the fade can't retreat further and further to his hive as you progress on it.

LMGers will take care of skulks, if they get to close, shotties will give you RFK for med packs.

The fade wants your marines on the defense, always be on the offense and attack/harass their team, their gorges will scream at the fades to do something soon enough.

Marines will die, re-equip and tell them to re-group.

Also, never elect RTs if you are because fades nullify their use quite well.

Advanced tips

Have marines block the fade but shoot at him, as in stand in his way or in the closest doorway, every second they shoot him the closer he is to death.

Ballisto · April 2004

A couple things:

A seige outpost AND shotguns to defend it costs HELLA RES. The fade will take down all your rts, which is not helpful at ALL.

I'll try the welders+sgs+medpacks.

I'll also try hive rushing more, telling two guys to attack the hive until they die, send around big rt killing squads. Keep up the pressure kind of thing.

The blocking is more an individual thing - I always personally do it as a marine. If you crouch it'll often give you just another half second, and you need all the time you can get.

Necrosis · April 2004

All I can suggest is shotty spam - but a good fade will rip through anything you can set up. Its not that its overpowered, its just very very fast and you need to see it coming.

Diablus · April 2004

Usually fades now use blink, then quickly switch to swipe to do quick hit and blink away tactics, which is extremly effective on squads on LA's. A counter ive used as a marine ON THE FIELD, is to duck at the last second with my shotgun to block his blinking by and try to put in 1-2 hits, if the fade misses because they usually aim for the chest they usually get angry after the second time and just astart walking around holding down fire aiming all over with swipe, usually then u could rip it apart. But its quite tricky if the fade keeps running <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' />

Lost3 · April 2004

Fades are by far the hardest alien to deal with. Skulks die quickly, gorges can't fight back, lerks go down easy too, and Onos are just huge targets. Fades.... fades are a whole other problem. They are the most dangerous alien in my humble opinion. I think the best way of dealing with fades is to intentionally hunt them down or lay to traps for them. Just handing out shoutguns won't stop fades from killing marines and thus wasting the rez you spent on those shotguns. You need a concerted effort to lure the fade into a trap or constricted location where blink won't help much. Try as much as you can to make blink difficult to use because of the location or terrain. Fades are tough but, they still can't stand up to very many shotguns blasts at close range. I would say as a rule of thumb try to bait them into a room and then try to block the exits if you can with yourself or your teammates. Make that fade have to go though more bullets just to get out. Don't be afraid to ask for a few mines too, to line the exits with a few suprises, every little bit helps.

It really comes down to a united marine effort to take the fade out. Don't be afraid to die killing a fade, you as a marine are very cheap, fades are 50 rez (and a huge morale bonus!). Lure them into a group of fire (try not to block each other's shots), and block his escape routes. Just my 2 cents.

Edited for grammer (stupid brain and fingers...)

Chiaki · April 2004

OK.....weap-ups are the key to kill fades.....3 lvl 3 SGshots with all pellets hitting leaves a fade at 11 hp...then its pistols out

Just have 3 SGers and an lmg-man in 1 group...lmgman does cover-fire...

That is at 2 hives...as you know: armor becomes more effective the more hives they have........with 1 hive, 3 SGs level 2 is actually enough.......the primary problem is hitting the fade

lmg is actually fine....a skilled LMGer can do damage quite quickly....

1 hive fade: 50 lmg-shots level 2 exactly = dead fade (but thats without regen/cara)...........lmg is powerfull...when you shoot at a fade with lmg, it wont go directly to the next rine, it stops to heal....Ive often been fade in 10v10 games....I attack a guy, he damages me...and I stand healing...I hear 2 rines come, so I run around the corner....but theres a rine there....so wham..I kill him too...but then I hear rines coming..I run to the next corner...new rines there...:S...fade does heal, but its like 45 damage/2 secs.....which isnt much..metabolizm is great for fades.

The blocking-the-fade idea is the best of them all.....quickly block their exit, and you get at 1½ sec more, which is 1 SGshot

I have heard alot about armor3...and that it can save your marines alot....I dont seem to agree :S

fade v armor3 = needs 4 swipes......SG weaps 0 v 2hive-fade = 5 shots.....

fade v armor1 = needs 3 swipes......SG weaps 2 v 2hive-fade = 4 shots.....

considering that a fade can retreat and simply heal itself while mostly rines are too stupid to weld/get welded

The point about killing fade is: Get it into combat-------> get something that can hurt it(SG), and have the battle last long enough for you to kill it (blocking+having ppl that can hit it)

On another notice, Ive noticed that fades dont appear to have a hitbox in the top of its head.....so no headshots.....hit it in the torso/chest/stomach...and since leg hitbox's arent perfect, you can just duck (to evade) and shoot him in the groin ^^ that will make the fade feel pain <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /> ouch

littlewild · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Niteowl @ Apr 8 2004, 09:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> a really uber fade is really hard to counter. one thing that i find effective (in addition to mixed arms) is to siege a hive right away. pulls the fade off of pressuring your rts. and draws him to your sgs.

so in summary : early siege (like at gametime 5:00)  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I agree, apply the necessary pressure and make the Fade to be at where you want him to be. It is much easier to kill a fade that has to come to kill you.

Licho · April 2004

Well best way to kill fade is hit him while he escapes :-) You don't really need many shotguns, because every fade always retreats at certain health level regardless of rine guns, if you catch him in this state, it's dead..
So imo best way to kill fade if you are in defensive position is to simply shout current position of fade possibly giving WPs for people to hunt him (MT really helps). No matter how good fade is, it must retreat and if you have marines incoming on him from more directions blocking way back to hive, its dead..

Another way is putting pressure on alien hive (trying to siege it) to cause fades to be in defensive position, however be aware that fade defending hive is much stronger (has healing nearby) and you need really whole team to fight aliens with 2 fades. If aliens have 3-4 good fades acting together with some lerk support it's imo impossible to beat using attack on hive. Such alien team will likely kill even the best equipped light marine attack team..

Fades killing RTs are really minimal problem, im happy if I see fade busy with RT wasting his time :-) It usually pays off, loose one RT in exchange for fade-less time for your marines :-) Fade excels at killing rines, skulks should do RT killing, if fade is busy at RTs he cant attack locked hive or kill your marines around map...

Ballisto · April 2004

See the other thread... but skulks are enough of a problem on un eleced rts. I never elec because the fade will just get it! I actually think that's the best use of fades, for 50 res and little risk, their entire economy dies. Whereas you could kill some 0 res marines who pack a punch. Wow. There's a thread somewhere in the alien strat section about how fades should hunt solo marines/duo marines and kill eleced rts.

Licho · April 2004

Yes, but i was talking about unelected RTs of course, because seriously, where I play, electrified RTs are EXTREMELY rare..
If fade is killing easilly accesible normal RT then he is wasting time.. skulk can do it quicker..

Act_Chill · April 2004

You have to be in a squad and your squad has to be smart. If you are in a large open area you are screwed, but if you are in a area that the exits can be blocked with marine bodies then a smart squad will rape a fade. When the fade attacks everyone fires while running to block the exits. Fade cant escape gg. Blocking a fade for just a second or two can kill it(fade is stationary with multiple people shooting it). The fades best ability is its ability to escape. Take that away.

Just to note too many people use elec rts. I never use elec for the 2 rts next to base or for the rt or tf in base. If I get a rt far from base I will elec it. This gives me 60 res more than other comms. That 60 res lets me get adv armory faster and have better upgrades earlier making me team player better, which intern gives you more res and gives aliens less. You also have a better chance of killing evalved aliens.

ZERG · April 2004

Shotguns

CommunistWithAGun · April 2004

Block them. Push into a fade thats near you, and get in his way

Ballisto · April 2004

The pressuring hives REALLY works! On several games I played on this one server, the marines kept taking down the hives, and winning. The fades couldn't save the hives from a 3 shotty, 6 marine rush!

How Do You Counter Fade?

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