boy, a psych major better earn me alot of money computer gaming is an expensive hobby... <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Damn that thing is huge. As for the power, can't the PCI Express port (when it starts to show up on mobos) get more power to the card without the need for 2 molex connectors? If you're worried about using up your power cables, you might just want to wait for the PCI Express version of the card (or ATi's new card by then) to come out.
I love how people expect faster video cards to take up less space and less power.
Thats like saying I want a faster car that can beat anything on the market and use less fuel.
Think please.
BTW if you dont have a 480W power supply or a High end mobo which makes up for those PCI slots with it's extra options. Not to mention a high end cpu, you will never push this thing anywhere. I bet a good 25-40% of people who buy the 9800 XT never really push the card.
So many people get graphic cards thinking thats the bottleneck, but it isnt.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Personally, I'm waiting to see a few things before casting judgement.
1) If nVidia can actually get them to store shelves in a timely manner (FX4500, anyone?)
2) If the non-media samples perform as well
3) If the drivers can be run without cutting down color calculations to artificially inflate fps count
4) If they make a version that will stay in its own damn slot
5) If they make a version that will only use up one power lead (ATi only switched to Molex from the fdd power connector as it felt more solid, just by the by)
Can't help but find it funny that nVidia fanboys are already fastening onto it as an 'in your face' when they can't yet buy the card, and haven't heard anything about the ATi counter-offers. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> Just remember. Until it actually hits shelves, nVidia is still only second-best. ^_^
Oh, and doomeh, I'd say to go for the 9800 Pro, not the XT. Save $300 and get almost the same performance. Only two hundred bucks at the moment, off the shelf.
<!--QuoteBegin-Talesin+Apr 15 2004, 09:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Apr 15 2004, 09:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just remember. Until it actually hits shelves, nVidia is still only second-best. ^_^ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The man speaks the truth! All ye Nividia fanboys hearken to his wisdom! ATI4EVER!
[EDIT] that would make an ubernerd liscence plate...
Benchmarks smenchmarks. I can make an old Voodoo 1 run at 300fps, I look for a video card for not only its performance but its got to look good too. I love eye candy turned on. I'll take the 60fps over the 100fps anyday.
Every review I have read about ATI always says it looks better. I have even contemplated buying an ATI FireGL for $700 this is a card that rocks <a href='http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-347&depa=1' target='_blank'>http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc....-102-347&depa=1</a>
It don't get any better. And to think ATI ownz this hard and is still at a .15 micron die!! Look out nVida your about to go the way of K-mart. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-DFA Haplo+Apr 15 2004, 11:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DFA Haplo @ Apr 15 2004, 11:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Every review I have read about ATI always says it looks better. I have even contemplated buying an ATI FireGL for $700 this is a card that rocks <a href='http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-347&depa=1' target='_blank'>http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc....-102-347&depa=1</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What is the difference between the FireGL series and, say, the 9800XT? Why the additional 200$?
Well its not really a gaming card because its not about performance - its got 256M DDRII but its clocked at 700Mzh where the XT is 730Mzh, XP-Cagey could really explain better than I can. So I'll put it genarically the FireGL is designed to be Pixel Accurate. The Fire Card is really made for Engineers who work with CAD and other precision types of work where exact pixels make a differnce.
Like I said I like eye candy, the better it looks the more I want it. How well a Fire card would do in a game, I would guess it would be pretty close to the 9600XT or the 9700 pro, but I've never seen "benchmarks" on it. But I know it sure would look pretty.
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Apr 16 2004, 01:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Apr 16 2004, 01:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I love how people expect faster video cards to take up less space and less power.
Thats like saying I want a faster car that can beat anything on the market and use less fuel.
Think please.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Like a 1983 Dodge Charger that does 0-60 in about 10 seconds, getting about 23 mpg
whereas a 1998 Dodge Viper does 0-60 in about 3 seconds, getting 15 mpg?
Thats technological advance, and yes, some people expect it. You sound like Professor Frink: "I predict that within 100 years computers will be twice as powerful, 10,000 times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings in Europe will own them."
look at the second set of pics, the 9800xt and 6800 may look the same but the radeon gets less than half the fps(well, in halo most of the other games it beats it by about 30-40%, and UT2004 not a whole lot)
Nvidia is reigning king once again. All ATi users must sumbit before the 6800 ULTRA squashes your puny card. This card is such a fatteh that I don't think ATi will be able to compete with it for a while, but we will see...
But Nvidia has and always will remain the best Graphics card for gaming! Go Nvidia!
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Just like the X-Box will be the penultimate gaming platform. (Must.. keep... straight face..)
In any case. No matter WHICH you look at, they helpfully omit sections of the benchmark that don't fit in with their profile. Such as testing BOTH the 6800 and the 9800 at 8x. Which would be an oh-so-unhelpful blow to their clean run. Or noticing the fact that the Radeon performs smoother trilinear filtering, and AA overall. Or that even the 6800 Ultra STILL pukes texturing 'glitches' in a lot of games. Or that a goodly chunk of the games they used to benchmark are nVidia-approved and optimized, while the ATI cards just use standard OpenGL.
Again. In short, wait until it's actually out. These are media samples. Without fail, they're hand-picked to run the fastest, quietest, and with the least power draw possible. With custom, non-publically-released drivers. I'm not saying the margin will be too wide... but don't expect those numbers from an off-the-shelf card.
Oh, and anyone else note that the 9800XT <i>still</i> gives superior image quality, though at least Tom's tended to downplay that every time it came up. ^_^
<!--QuoteBegin-Grillkohle+Apr 14 2004, 04:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grillkohle @ Apr 14 2004, 04:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> O_O You could beat someone to death with that video card. I wonder what it weighs. If I could spare the money for a vid card like this one, I would wait until ATi releases their new 'flagship'. I just like their stuff better. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> who doen't like unplayable opengl drivers better?
<!--QuoteBegin-kann_nix+Apr 16 2004, 09:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kann_nix @ Apr 16 2004, 09:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Grillkohle+Apr 14 2004, 04:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grillkohle @ Apr 14 2004, 04:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> O_O You could beat someone to death with that video card. I wonder what it weighs. If I could spare the money for a vid card like this one, I would wait until ATi releases their new 'flagship'. I just like their stuff better. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> who doen't like unplayable opengl drivers better? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Just you dare say that ATI is worse than NVidia, and I shall drive to your home and beat you severely with a shovel.
<!--QuoteBegin-DaMu+Apr 16 2004, 12:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DaMu @ Apr 16 2004, 12:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kann_nix+Apr 16 2004, 09:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kann_nix @ Apr 16 2004, 09:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Grillkohle+Apr 14 2004, 04:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grillkohle @ Apr 14 2004, 04:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> O_O You could beat someone to death with that video card. I wonder what it weighs. If I could spare the money for a vid card like this one, I would wait until ATi releases their new 'flagship'. I just like their stuff better. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> who doen't like unplayable opengl drivers better? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just you dare say that ATI is worse than NVidia, and I shall drive to your home and beat you severely with a shovel. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 300$ hardware with driver support worth $40 sounds good in my book. I know I'll be investing in ATI!
Ok people stop coming in here going "OMGZORZ MAI FANBOI COMPANY PWNS YOURS BUT I DONT HAVE ANYTHING TO BACKUP MAI STATEMENT!".... Really I could care less about these benchmarks. I'm more interested in the required two molex's. Even with the recommended 480w PSU, I'm leaning to think that when this thing kicks into full gear, you better pray that your harddrive or CDrom is still getting enough power (if thats connected on the same line as one of the molex's) and doesnt go into meltdown.
<!--QuoteBegin-OttoDestruct+Apr 16 2004, 12:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OttoDestruct @ Apr 16 2004, 12:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok people stop coming in here going "OMGZORZ MAI FANBOI COMPANY PWNS YOURS BUT I DONT HAVE ANYTHING TO BACKUP MAI STATEMENT!".... Really I could care less about these benchmarks. I'm more interested in the required two molex's. Even with the recommended 480w PSU, I'm leaning to think that when this thing kicks into full gear, you better pray that your harddrive or CDrom is still getting enough power (if thats connected on the same line as one of the molex's) and doesnt go into meltdown. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you believe that over consumption of power from your PS is going to make your "harddrive" or "CDrom" go "into meltdown," you would be better not voicing your opinions at all, as they have no merit.
<!--QuoteBegin-kann_nix+Apr 16 2004, 12:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kann_nix @ Apr 16 2004, 12:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-OttoDestruct+Apr 16 2004, 12:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OttoDestruct @ Apr 16 2004, 12:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok people stop coming in here going "OMGZORZ MAI FANBOI COMPANY PWNS YOURS BUT I DONT HAVE ANYTHING TO BACKUP MAI STATEMENT!".... Really I could care less about these benchmarks. I'm more interested in the required two molex's. Even with the recommended 480w PSU, I'm leaning to think that when this thing kicks into full gear, you better pray that your harddrive or CDrom is still getting enough power (if thats connected on the same line as one of the molex's) and doesnt go into meltdown. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you believe that over consumption of power from your PS is going to make your "harddrive" or "CDrom" go "into meltdown," you would be better not voicing your opinions at all, as they have no merit. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Do you know what a phrase is?
<!--QuoteBegin-OttoDestruct+Apr 16 2004, 12:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OttoDestruct @ Apr 16 2004, 12:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Do you know what a phrase is? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ...
Do YOU know what a phrase is? Because I don't see how what you just said makes any sense here.
I'm not arguing about video cards, here. I don't know enough about that junk. I'm not on the side of nVidia, and I'm not on the side of ATI. Mostly I'm just on the side of English.
I'm not on the side of nVidia, and I'm not on the side of ATI. Mostly I'm just on the side of English. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I find myself in a similar situation, only my side isn't so much English as it is <b>LOGIC</b>. Unfortunately, when one uses logic, one finds that ATI is an inferior product. I personally have a ATI9800 and GF4Ti4400 in my household, so don't accuse me of bias.
You can have whatever opinion you want, but your opinions matter not in the presence of FACTS.
Do YOU know what a phrase is? Because I don't see how what you just said makes any sense here.
I'm not arguing about video cards, here. I don't know enough about that junk. I'm not on the side of nVidia, and I'm not on the side of ATI. Mostly I'm just on the side of English. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> *Sigh* I really wish I didn't have to type out the entire post, hoping you could extrapolate what I was inferring.
If you have the video card's two molex's plugged into the same 'line' as the ones going to your harddrive(s) or cdrom (though this is probably more negligable as CDroms aren't known to draw a lot of power), what are the chances when the video card gets a 100% load that it steals power from the harddrive (or cdrom), causing the harddrive (or cdrom) to "GO INTO MELT DOWN", causing your computer to crash horribly.
I offer my conditional resignation in this flame war.
The condition: Otto promises to think before he speaks. If these conditions cannot be met due to ignorance, stupidity or general A.D.D. then the condition is as follows: never try to give computer hardware advice out again.
Comments
boy, a psych major better earn me alot of money
computer gaming is an expensive hobby... <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Thats like saying I want a faster car that can beat anything on the market and use less fuel.
Think please.
BTW if you dont have a 480W power supply or a High end mobo which makes up for those PCI slots with it's extra options. Not to mention a high end cpu, you will never push this thing anywhere. I bet a good 25-40% of people who buy the 9800 XT never really push the card.
So many people get graphic cards thinking thats the bottleneck, but it isnt.
I'm starting to think I might just hold out and save another $100 and get this card rather than the 9800 XT...
1) If nVidia can actually get them to store shelves in a timely manner (FX4500, anyone?)
2) If the non-media samples perform as well
3) If the drivers can be run without cutting down color calculations to artificially inflate fps count
4) If they make a version that will stay in its own damn slot
5) If they make a version that will only use up one power lead (ATi only switched to Molex from the fdd power connector as it felt more solid, just by the by)
Can't help but find it funny that nVidia fanboys are already fastening onto it as an 'in your face' when they can't yet buy the card, and haven't heard anything about the ATi counter-offers. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Just remember. Until it actually hits shelves, nVidia is still only second-best. ^_^
Oh, and doomeh, I'd say to go for the 9800 Pro, not the XT. Save $300 and get almost the same performance. Only two hundred bucks at the moment, off the shelf.
The man speaks the truth! All ye Nividia fanboys hearken to his wisdom! ATI4EVER!
[EDIT] that would make an ubernerd liscence plate...
And no telling what the independant vendors will do, they may go w/ completely different cooling solutions...
Every review I have read about ATI always says it looks better. I have even contemplated buying an ATI FireGL for $700 this is a card that rocks <a href='http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-347&depa=1' target='_blank'>http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc....-102-347&depa=1</a>
It don't get any better. And to think ATI ownz this hard and is still at a .15 micron die!! Look out nVida your about to go the way of K-mart. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
What is the difference between the FireGL series and, say, the 9800XT? Why the additional 200$?
Like I said I like eye candy, the better it looks the more I want it. How well a Fire card would do in a game, I would guess it would be pretty close to the 9600XT or the 9700 pro, but I've never seen "benchmarks" on it. But I know it sure would look pretty.
Thats like saying I want a faster car that can beat anything on the market and use less fuel.
Think please.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like a 1983 Dodge Charger that does 0-60 in about 10 seconds, getting about 23 mpg
whereas a 1998 Dodge Viper does 0-60 in about 3 seconds, getting 15 mpg?
Thats technological advance, and yes, some people expect it. You sound like Professor Frink:
"I predict that within 100 years computers will be twice as powerful, 10,000 times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings in Europe will own them."
<a href='http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/geforce_6800-45.html' target='_blank'>http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphic/2004...ce_6800-45.html</a>
look at the second set of pics, the 9800xt and 6800 may look the same but the radeon gets less than half the fps(well, in halo most of the other games it beats it by about 30-40%, and UT2004 not a whole lot)
wowzors
But Nvidia has and always will remain the best Graphics card for gaming! Go Nvidia!
In any case. No matter WHICH you look at, they helpfully omit sections of the benchmark that don't fit in with their profile. Such as testing BOTH the 6800 and the 9800 at 8x. Which would be an oh-so-unhelpful blow to their clean run. Or noticing the fact that the Radeon performs smoother trilinear filtering, and AA overall. Or that even the 6800 Ultra STILL pukes texturing 'glitches' in a lot of games. Or that a goodly chunk of the games they used to benchmark are nVidia-approved and optimized, while the ATI cards just use standard OpenGL.
Again. In short, wait until it's actually out. These are media samples. Without fail, they're hand-picked to run the fastest, quietest, and with the least power draw possible. With custom, non-publically-released drivers. I'm not saying the margin will be too wide... but don't expect those numbers from an off-the-shelf card.
Oh, and anyone else note that the 9800XT <i>still</i> gives superior image quality, though at least Tom's tended to downplay that every time it came up. ^_^
You could beat someone to death with that video card. I wonder what it weighs.
If I could spare the money for a vid card like this one, I would wait until ATi releases their new 'flagship'. I just like their stuff better. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
who doen't like unplayable opengl drivers better?
You could beat someone to death with that video card. I wonder what it weighs.
If I could spare the money for a vid card like this one, I would wait until ATi releases their new 'flagship'. I just like their stuff better. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
who doen't like unplayable opengl drivers better? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just you dare say that ATI is worse than NVidia, and I shall
drive to your home and beat you severely with a shovel.
You could beat someone to death with that video card. I wonder what it weighs.
If I could spare the money for a vid card like this one, I would wait until ATi releases their new 'flagship'. I just like their stuff better. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
who doen't like unplayable opengl drivers better? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just you dare say that ATI is worse than NVidia, and I shall
drive to your home and beat you severely with a shovel. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
300$ hardware with driver support worth $40 sounds good in my book. I know I'll be investing in ATI!
If you believe that over consumption of power from your PS is going to make your "harddrive" or "CDrom" go "into meltdown," you would be better not voicing your opinions at all, as they have no merit.
If you believe that over consumption of power from your PS is going to make your "harddrive" or "CDrom" go "into meltdown," you would be better not voicing your opinions at all, as they have no merit. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you know what a phrase is?
...
Do YOU know what a phrase is? Because I don't see how what you just said makes any sense here.
I'm not arguing about video cards, here. I don't know enough about that junk. I'm not on the side of nVidia, and I'm not on the side of ATI. Mostly I'm just on the side of English.
I'm not on the side of nVidia, and I'm not on the side of ATI. Mostly I'm just on the side of English. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find myself in a similar situation, only my side isn't so much English as it is <b>LOGIC</b>. Unfortunately, when one uses logic, one finds that ATI is an inferior product. I personally have a ATI9800 and GF4Ti4400 in my household, so don't accuse me of bias.
You can have whatever opinion you want, but your opinions matter not in the presence of FACTS.
...
Do YOU know what a phrase is? Because I don't see how what you just said makes any sense here.
I'm not arguing about video cards, here. I don't know enough about that junk. I'm not on the side of nVidia, and I'm not on the side of ATI. Mostly I'm just on the side of English. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
*Sigh* I really wish I didn't have to type out the entire post, hoping you could extrapolate what I was inferring.
If you have the video card's two molex's plugged into the same 'line' as the ones going to your harddrive(s) or cdrom (though this is probably more negligable as CDroms aren't known to draw a lot of power), what are the chances when the video card gets a 100% load that it steals power from the harddrive (or cdrom), causing the harddrive (or cdrom) to "GO INTO MELT DOWN", causing your computer to crash horribly.
The condition: Otto promises to think before he speaks. If these conditions cannot be met due to ignorance, stupidity or general A.D.D. then the condition is as follows: never try to give computer hardware advice out again.
From any of you.