B4 With Mvm

Sops · April 2004

Since the community was able to make working mvm maps, (I know it's short notice <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /> ) but will beta 4 have mvm or aleast some extra coding to help mvm run smoother?

Nemesis_Zero · April 2004

No.
MvM in the way the mapping community got it to work (kudos for that), is not what Flayra has in mind for what would essentially be an utterly different gamemode, so there will in all probability be no official support.

Sops · April 2004

they have always talked about put mvm in even before 2.0 was out, thought they might have just put it in and see how people like it :/

Nemesis_Zero · April 2004

As I said, a human vs. human mode is still in the realm of possibilities (in conversations, Flayra describes it usually as one of the next 'big additions' of a scale comparable to the addition of Combat or the new alien evolution system in 2.0) - it would however be of a scope substantionally bigger than the simple mirroring of the current marine team.

Nikon · April 2004

it shouldnt be Marine vs. Marine. It should be Marine vs. RIAA!!!!!

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' />

DragonMech · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([BFG]-|NiKoN|- @ Apr 19 2004, 02:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> it shouldnt be Marine vs. Marine. It should be Marine vs. RIAA!!!!!  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
That requires 2 comments:
1) ROFL!
2) Damn straight!

Zek · April 2004

MvM is not out of the question, but I think the odds of it going in for 3.0 are slim to none. There's enough to take care of already without adding an entire new game mode with its own set of balance and mapping concerns relatively late in the beta.

IceBaron · April 2004

I thought they were adding space orcs.

Some_tall_guy1 · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I thought they were adding space orcs. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> they are <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' />

Sops · April 2004

or the 2nd part of my post about tweaking the game a little to help a plug-in run smoother (not official part of NS, not Flayra's problem if it doesn't work)

Ballisto · April 2004

I r teh nub... whats RIAA.

esuna · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ballisto @ Apr 20 2004, 04:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I r teh nub... whats RIAA.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Recording Industry Association of America. The nice people that sue 12 year olds.

Apos · April 2004

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of MvM as it stands. Marines are nerfed so as to deal with aliens: fighting each other seems too slow, just a pointless fragfest of "heya, let's stand across from each other shooting and whomever runs out of bullets first loses!"

I think, at the very least, the MvM maps need to come down in size a bit, but increase in complexity. Large open spaces really bite for MvM.

MrGunner · April 2004

More bunkers and ladders and camping towers and less big open rooms and hallways. More like an indoor paintball area then the inside of a warehouse.

RaVe · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Some tall guy @ Apr 19 2004, 07:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I thought they were adding space orcs. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> they are <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I thought that was last year? *shrugs*

Anyway, no chance of seeing MvM in B4, because well, the interviews said so!

Pepe_Muffassa · April 2004

those things that work awesome for MvA in terms of balance completely take the fun out of MvM - like long corridors etc. In order for MvM to come in to it's own, people will need to take lessons from CounterStrike Mappers because that is pretty much what it is - CS with Jet Packs. Maps need ceiling room for flying, but they also need bunkers for hiding. Put the Com chair in a bunker and watch them try to nade it through the little gun opening.

Just my 2c

im_lost · April 2004

There's also the fact that marines are about the size of a fade, have the mobility of an onos, and have less hp than a fade. Even a HA marine doesn't have much health when the other team can use bullets to kill him. I don't even know where the changes would start, but a lot more needs to be changed besides maps.

Nemesis_Zero · April 2004

From a backstory perspective, it's also disputable whether bullets would do the same damage they deal to the aliens to the marines who're put into high-tech ballistic armor...

Paranoia2MB · April 2004

There is a server that has MvM only mod on it somewhere.

It starts with #

Like
#clan whatever.

Just look for a # and a C and maybe an H.

Salvation_r2 · April 2004

where are the maps 0.o

NGE · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Apos @ Apr 19 2004, 11:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Personally, I'm not a huge fan of MvM as it stands. Marines are nerfed so as to deal with aliens: fighting each other seems too slow, just a pointless fragfest of "heya, let's stand across from each other shooting and whomever runs out of bullets first loses!"

I think, at the very least, the MvM maps need to come down in size a bit, but increase in complexity. Large open spaces really bite for MvM.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Um, these weapons chew eachother up pretty quickly.

15 LMG bullets kills either side at the start, with 4 more added per armor upgrade.

It's not too tough to hit a rine, so 1 clip is usually enough for 2 or more kills at the start.

You really shouldn't run outta bullets... Unless you're both missing kinda terribly, then one of you is going to drop pretty fast.

Right now it's a fun little custom thing, with no real sense of balance. Lets get regular NS up and running and fix its issues first, and enjoy what MvM is right now as it is.

Apos · April 2004

Don't be so literal. The point is, you just sort of strafe back and forth, shooting each other. Or jp around.

And the adapted cs maps are actually the worst: mappers do NOT need to take a lesson from those maps. Way too many big open spaces.

BlackMage · April 2004

a) co_sillyv3 was a proof of concept map. it means "hey! look at what i can do!" not "this is a new idea packed into an expertly designed and well balanced map"
b) ripping cs_maps ... the only other option at this moment is wait for better co_maps (that aren't proof of concepts, above)
c) our server has co_sillyv3 as a voteable map, we also run the metamod plugin. if oyu want to test mvm or just mess around in it, hop on (or pm me on irc, i can change maps for you)

Trevelyan · April 2004

yes... realise that MvM is in a concept stage at a UNOFFICIAL level. Dont go around here complaining about the maps for MvM... because ITS NOT NS RELATED. In fact... why are YOU complaining about the maps when you can go make your own?

Cereal_KillR · April 2004

IF they do add MvM (which I'm not looking forward to all that much actually) then the actual final v3.0 would be out even later.

So no.

XirCon · April 2004

mvm works for most types of maps really as long as you show teamwork. The major problem with mvm is the grenade launcher, though I guess that's a problem with all combat maps <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' />. In mvm it isn't uncommon to see 25% to 50% of the players with gls spamming away, especially the spawn areas. NSArmslab recently made cs_assault a capture the flag variety where you have to try to capture the armslab and bring it back to your own. Unfortunately assault is a bit unbalanced for such a task.

Co_alloyv2 is another mvm map that plays fairly well. The cc is isolated from both teams so the inability of team3 to weld is mute, allowing for a more balanced game under present situations.

Sops · April 2004

I don't think it would be hard to balance mvm, think of it they are two teams with the same HP same armor and same upgrades, you may find some upgrades to be useless but it's still balances, both teams have to deal with the same problems and short comes

as for mapping I would think you could just map map very similar to the co map in mva just with new base designs

im_lost · April 2004

Balanced does not necessarily equal fun. Also, balanced could equate to a stalemate every game, even when there is a noticeable skill difference.

Sops · April 2004

just becuase it's balanced doesn't mean both teams have to get the same upgrades

Cereal_KillR · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Apr 20 2004, 09:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> From a backstory perspective, it's also disputable whether bullets would do the same damage they deal to the aliens to the marines who're put into high-tech ballistic armor...  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
checks manual...

The <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/manual/front_sterkman.html' target='_blank'>Sterkman Point System</a> has decided that 100 HP is the life of an average marine and 50 (now 25 then) armor. From there, we calculated the bullet damage, and bite, etc. It should work itself out with an added line or two <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

The real problem would be buildings: they would take much more time than alien structures to take down and would be nearly useless to be shot down if we use the same health ratio as normal MvA

Zek · April 2004

Maverick, if both teams in MvM had a pistol that killed in one shot, it would be technically balanced but it wouldn't be a whole lot of fun would it? "Balance" is not the same thing as symmetry.

B4 With Mvm

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