NS is not meant to be played 16 vs 16. If the game is that big, then get rt's, electrify, and tech up. Your tech will come just as quickly. Avoid pointlessly giving the aliens rfk. In this case it is worth giving a marine 2 or 3 medpacks to save them from a skulk, as long as they have a reasonable chance of living and are doing something useful. If you are in a group of 7 marines, aliens should have difficulty getting to you.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ballisto+Apr 21 2004, 03:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ballisto @ Apr 21 2004, 03:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What works and annoys the **** out of me as a skulk is to listen very hard, then when you hear a skulk coming, back away from the rt. Most of the time they'll dive at the rt, expecting to catch you with your pants down, and instead you blast them with your lmg. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ballisto excellent post mate. Very intellegent points made.
However, lsitening out for skulks approaching you while your knifing a RT, thats basic man.
As a skulk, try walking, then they cant hear you, untill your muching them that is <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Most of it is really just obvious stuff encrypted into a bunch of meaningless jargon.
For instance:
You can be sure of succeeding in your attacks if you only attack places which are undefended.
You can ensure the safety of your defense if you only hold positions that cannot be attacked.
Hence that general is skillful in attack whose opponent does not know what to defend; and he is skillful in defense whose opponent does not know what to attack.
It's obvious. Attack what they can't defend easily, defend what they can't attack easily. Jeez, you don't need some long dead Chinese guy to tell you stuff like this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> lots of things are overrated. Does that mean you are the only one who can see this? Does that mean we should now hail you as the enlightened one ?
Most of it is really just obvious stuff encrypted into a bunch of meaningless jargon.
For instance:
You can be sure of succeeding in your attacks if you only attack places which are undefended.
You can ensure the safety of your defense if you only hold positions that cannot be attacked.
Hence that general is skillful in attack whose opponent does not know what to defend; and he is skillful in defense whose opponent does not know what to attack.
It's obvious. Attack what they can't defend easily, defend what they can't attack easily. Jeez, you don't need some long dead Chinese guy to tell you stuff like this. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> lots of things are overrated. Does that mean you are the only one who can see this? Does that mean we should now hail you as the enlightened one ?
**** off <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you a descendant of Sun Tzu?
He simply said that anyone that just thinks about strategy can see these things beforehand, and reading it is unnecessary. Please keep the trolling to thyself.
Also, who dictated that Natural Selection was not meant to be played at 16 vs 16? Considering the game allows that many, you would assume that it was meant to played from 2 - 16.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>In any game over 6v6, which is virtually every pub game you see, it is more valuable for the commander to slash and burn alien resource nodes and send solo marines to stand on top of nodes to keep them as long as possible, and conduct the game like that.
I won't repeat the argument. Ballisto's initial explanation for why aliens have a more difficult time rebuilding RTs describes the situation perfectly. You need to re-read it, and think again. The key to the slash and burn alien RT destruction is in the easier time marines have of rebuilding. Marine RTs are cheaper, easier to defend as a lone scout, and can be put up as soon as an empty spot has been located. It takes a mere 90 seconds for the RT to repay itself. The idea is to station the marine who built the RT at the RT to defend against skulks while the resources pour in. One marine defending a resource is worth it in large games. By constantly pressuring any RTs the aliens build, with good coordination and teamwork, you keep their res flow capped to three, two, or even one RT.
The key at this point becomes not feeding an endless stream of marines into the aliens mouth. Please remember, they get resources for kills. It's a good idea to move in groups. The only way you'll see fades when the aliens are down to one RT is if one single player has managed to kill several squads-worth of marines, and that would be a case of the alien team simply being better than yours and deserving to win.
This is just about the most obvious strategical observation you can make about the economy of large games. It's just THERE. If you're not seeing it, it's because you're not looking. The more marines on a team, the better they are at taking and holding ground, and the more aliens on a team, the slower they each get resources from RTs. They aren't getting any resources except for the ones from killing marines. So if your marines squat on top of an RT and camp it, you're minimizing the losses and holding your own RTs as long as you can. When fades show up, you hand out the biggest guns you can to three guys, and they hunt him down like a pack of wolves. Kill him, do the same to any of his buddies, and resume tracking alien RTs, taking them down, and sending out rambo marines to collect resource nodes for you. Over time, you're going to have more upgrades than them, and even if the only thing your team has is heavy weapons and no prototype lab, the aliens are going to have even less, and you're going to wipe them out without needing to bother with stupid toys like heavy armor and jetpacks. Hive one skulks die good against light armor heavy machineguns with good upgrades.
It works, and on all pub games larger than 8v8, it's pretty much a roadmap for a likely win.
As for the harder time marines have taking out alien resources, this might sound expensive, but send two guys out, give one of them a shotgun. The shotgun guy blasts the hell out of the RT, killing it superquick, while the LMG guy guards the hallway outside. You put up your own RT. The fact is, even if your guys only manage to take down the RT, and get slammed by a group of skulks before they can put up an RT, the ten resource shotgun that got dropped on the floor is going to cost YOU less than it's going to cost the aliens who just lost a resource. Sending shotgun squads out to rambo down on alien RTs is worth losing them as long as you're keeping alien RTs down to a minimum, and your own guys aren't dying too much to any one alien. You cover each other and camp the res you have while the other half of the team is on hunter mode, and things work out well.</span>
<!--QuoteBegin-keep it *G*angsta+Apr 22 2004, 09:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (keep it *G*angsta @ Apr 22 2004, 09:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As a skulk, try walking, then they cant hear you, untill your muching them that is <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> guys, remember that u can SEE THROUGH the rt's while u are knifing/building them... with rine rt, look flatly at smooth hexagon edge and walk into rt (nice view or corridors like miasma btw)
with alien rt u do the same, only u get little legs at side, but u can still c danger before they can shoot u!!! trust me, it helps
Comments
Ballisto excellent post mate. Very intellegent points made.
However, lsitening out for skulks approaching you while your knifing a RT, thats basic man.
As a skulk, try walking, then they cant hear you, untill your muching them that is <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Most of it is really just obvious stuff encrypted into a bunch of meaningless jargon.
For instance:
You can be sure of succeeding in your attacks if you only attack places which are undefended.
You can ensure the safety of your defense if you only hold positions that cannot be attacked.
Hence that general is skillful in attack whose opponent does not know what to defend; and he is skillful in defense whose opponent does not know what to attack.
It's obvious. Attack what they can't defend easily, defend what they can't attack easily. Jeez, you don't need some long dead Chinese guy to tell you stuff like this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
lots of things are overrated. Does that mean you are the only one who can see this? Does that mean we should now hail you as the enlightened one ?
**** off
Most of it is really just obvious stuff encrypted into a bunch of meaningless jargon.
For instance:
You can be sure of succeeding in your attacks if you only attack places which are undefended.
You can ensure the safety of your defense if you only hold positions that cannot be attacked.
Hence that general is skillful in attack whose opponent does not know what to defend; and he is skillful in defense whose opponent does not know what to attack.
It's obvious. Attack what they can't defend easily, defend what they can't attack easily. Jeez, you don't need some long dead Chinese guy to tell you stuff like this. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lots of things are overrated. Does that mean you are the only one who can see this? Does that mean we should now hail you as the enlightened one ?
**** off <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you a descendant of Sun Tzu?
He simply said that anyone that just thinks about strategy can see these things beforehand, and reading it is unnecessary. Please keep the trolling to thyself.
Also, who dictated that Natural Selection was not meant to be played at 16 vs 16? Considering the game allows that many, you would assume that it was meant to played from 2 - 16.
I won't repeat the argument. Ballisto's initial explanation for why aliens have a more difficult time rebuilding RTs describes the situation perfectly. You need to re-read it, and think again. The key to the slash and burn alien RT destruction is in the easier time marines have of rebuilding. Marine RTs are cheaper, easier to defend as a lone scout, and can be put up as soon as an empty spot has been located. It takes a mere 90 seconds for the RT to repay itself. The idea is to station the marine who built the RT at the RT to defend against skulks while the resources pour in. One marine defending a resource is worth it in large games. By constantly pressuring any RTs the aliens build, with good coordination and teamwork, you keep their res flow capped to three, two, or even one RT.
The key at this point becomes not feeding an endless stream of marines into the aliens mouth. Please remember, they get resources for kills. It's a good idea to move in groups. The only way you'll see fades when the aliens are down to one RT is if one single player has managed to kill several squads-worth of marines, and that would be a case of the alien team simply being better than yours and deserving to win.
This is just about the most obvious strategical observation you can make about the economy of large games. It's just THERE. If you're not seeing it, it's because you're not looking. The more marines on a team, the better they are at taking and holding ground, and the more aliens on a team, the slower they each get resources from RTs. They aren't getting any resources except for the ones from killing marines. So if your marines squat on top of an RT and camp it, you're minimizing the losses and holding your own RTs as long as you can. When fades show up, you hand out the biggest guns you can to three guys, and they hunt him down like a pack of wolves. Kill him, do the same to any of his buddies, and resume tracking alien RTs, taking them down, and sending out rambo marines to collect resource nodes for you. Over time, you're going to have more upgrades than them, and even if the only thing your team has is heavy weapons and no prototype lab, the aliens are going to have even less, and you're going to wipe them out without needing to bother with stupid toys like heavy armor and jetpacks. Hive one skulks die good against light armor heavy machineguns with good upgrades.
It works, and on all pub games larger than 8v8, it's pretty much a roadmap for a likely win.
As for the harder time marines have taking out alien resources, this might sound expensive, but send two guys out, give one of them a shotgun. The shotgun guy blasts the hell out of the RT, killing it superquick, while the LMG guy guards the hallway outside. You put up your own RT. The fact is, even if your guys only manage to take down the RT, and get slammed by a group of skulks before they can put up an RT, the ten resource shotgun that got dropped on the floor is going to cost YOU less than it's going to cost the aliens who just lost a resource. Sending shotgun squads out to rambo down on alien RTs is worth losing them as long as you're keeping alien RTs down to a minimum, and your own guys aren't dying too much to any one alien. You cover each other and camp the res you have while the other half of the team is on hunter mode, and things work out well.</span>
guys, remember that u can SEE THROUGH the rt's while u are knifing/building them... with rine rt, look flatly at smooth hexagon edge and walk into rt (nice view or corridors like miasma btw)
with alien rt u do the same, only u get little legs at side, but u can still c danger before they can shoot u!!! trust me, it helps