<!--QuoteBegin-Chanty+May 25 2004, 11:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chanty @ May 25 2004, 11:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Lowered Marine Spawn closer to the cargo level and made the elevator unusable<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that is really anti-onos isn't it? the ladder is like a hole, usually with marine fire at the other end...if the marines get good defence on the other wall....aliens will have a hard time getting in won't they? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not really. This screenshot: <a href='http://mendasp.thezazi.net/mapas/bast_remake/newarea2.jpg' target='_blank'>http://mendasp.thezazi.net/mapas/bast_remake/newarea2.jpg</a> (seen one page before your post . . .) shows no ladders, just a ramp.
No changes in atmos? Shame, I would had loved to get them spored out of there. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I was happy with just another onos sized tunnel out of engine to refinery and skulk tunnel to atmos from engine/refinery.
Seriously, this has nothing to do with nostalgia, but rather the very distinct features that made bast bast, made it different from other maps. The revolving door was a great feature. I'm not as concerned about the MS elevator, but you have to admit it was a feature that kept the marines from taking atmos so easily, and something of that nature needs to replace it. Again, revolving door between SM and atmos would do the trick nicely, while retaining a key strategic feature of the map.
<!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+May 25 2004, 11:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ May 25 2004, 11:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Times change, the game changes, maps must change also. Bast was the first ns map. Think of all the changes that have happened between then and now. Now tell me bast doesn't need to be updated for the modern NS. Drown in nostalgia if you will, but I'd rather have a bast that's fair and balanced for both teams, rather than a bast where MS is unassaultable with onos, a hive is halfway siegeable from MS, one choke point effectively cuts the map in two, and a reloc to engine hive can let the marines drag the game on literally for hours.
What is the latest version of hera, or caged, or eclipse? Are they 'maps based on' the 1.0 versions? All of those have been changed as much, if not more, than bast is being changed. I'm happy with the changes, and I hope they keep coming until this map is a favorite like veil or eclipse.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I won't even argue that bast is and was unbalanced because it most certainly is. But can it be balanced without creating whole new rooms? Probably so.
Would I call eclipse a map based on the 1.0 version. Let me think. They added only a few vents and added a small section off of (crap now I can't remember the name, the blue power columns area <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> ), and redid the layout inside and around maintenance hive somewhat. All the hives are still in the same general area, same hive entrance positions (different layouts leading to those positions).
I like the idea of a new entrance into Engine hive, I don't like the idea of moving it across the map to create the new entrance.
I also think that the loss of the "Elevator of OC Doom" hands the marines atmospheric (double) if the aliens don't start in feedwater.
I do think that bast needs an overhaul, I would just like to see it done without it loosing it's feel of being bast.
I doubt the new bast could be much worse than the old bast <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The changes look good to me. I too am concerned about atmos double res being too easy for the marines to take, but we'll see if that is really a problem when its released. I'm sure it'll be better than the last version even if that is an issue.
Is there anyway you could do something about tram tunnel? I feel it is REALLY easy to siege the hive from there... Maybe add a few boxes for cover? Onos can die very easily from the long hallway and most other life forms as well... Marines can really hold out that area with their long range lmgs and pistols.
My favorite part about bast is the network of vents and crevices. I like traveling through these easily and skimming past large sections of terrain. Though I know most of the routes, it maybe hard for a new or average player to find where all of these routes and paths go.
Great job with the remake, can't wait to get to refinery from engine. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Wow what an odd bump. Although I supposed with B5 coming out soon with the latest bast remake version it does make some sense. Gives people a place to vent about it anyway.
And they did try boxes in tram tunnel once upon a time, but it just didn't look right. The vents that let you get above tram go the length of the whole tunnel now, with openings the whole way. Try using those to get around and attack the marines instead.
Sorry for a redundant post. Is it possible to darken the lights however? I think if a room is large or long, lights should be lowered, while a small and narrow area should be bright for it to be balanced for both teams.
Sorry again for bringing this from the dead... I thought this post would only appear in the Map Feedback Guide, Links to map feeback threads here section.
You should fix the vents heading into engine room. Marines can build a TDF in the very corner of their base and then drop seiges in the vents RIGHT in range of seiging the hive. So aliens have no TF to take down, but must take down the 3-5 seiges 1 by 1 <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> Should definetly fix that fyi.
Comments
that is really anti-onos isn't it? the ladder is like a hole, usually with marine fire at the other end...if the marines get good defence on the other wall....aliens will have a hard time getting in won't they? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really. This screenshot: <a href='http://mendasp.thezazi.net/mapas/bast_remake/newarea2.jpg' target='_blank'>http://mendasp.thezazi.net/mapas/bast_remake/newarea2.jpg</a> (seen one page before your post . . .) shows no ladders, just a ramp.
Seriously, this has nothing to do with nostalgia, but rather the very distinct features that made bast bast, made it different from other maps. The revolving door was a great feature. I'm not as concerned about the MS elevator, but you have to admit it was a feature that kept the marines from taking atmos so easily, and something of that nature needs to replace it. Again, revolving door between SM and atmos would do the trick nicely, while retaining a key strategic feature of the map.
What is the latest version of hera, or caged, or eclipse? Are they 'maps based on' the 1.0 versions? All of those have been changed as much, if not more, than bast is being changed. I'm happy with the changes, and I hope they keep coming until this map is a favorite like veil or eclipse.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I won't even argue that bast is and was unbalanced because it most certainly is. But can it be balanced without creating whole new rooms? Probably so.
Would I call eclipse a map based on the 1.0 version. Let me think. They added only a few vents and added a small section off of (crap now I can't remember the name, the blue power columns area <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> ), and redid the layout inside and around maintenance hive somewhat. All the hives are still in the same general area, same hive entrance positions (different layouts leading to those positions).
I like the idea of a new entrance into Engine hive, I don't like the idea of moving it across the map to create the new entrance.
I also think that the loss of the "Elevator of OC Doom" hands the marines atmospheric (double) if the aliens don't start in feedwater.
I do think that bast needs an overhaul, I would just like to see it done without it loosing it's feel of being bast.
But you have to take into account that Eclipse had a balanced layout already, Bast didn't.
My favorite part about bast is the network of vents and crevices. I like traveling through these easily and skimming past large sections of terrain. Though I know most of the routes, it maybe hard for a new or average player to find where all of these routes and paths go.
Great job with the remake, can't wait to get to refinery from engine. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And they did try boxes in tram tunnel once upon a time, but it just didn't look right. The vents that let you get above tram go the length of the whole tunnel now, with openings the whole way. Try using those to get around and attack the marines instead.
Sorry again for bringing this from the dead... I thought this post would only appear in the Map Feedback Guide, Links to map feeback threads here section.