<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->From my experience, the first fade usually shows up a minute or two before the hive is put up. So, that's 2 minutes of waiting, plus 3 more for the hive to build. Sure, it takes time for the fade to evolve, but it also takes time for the dc's to be built. I am talking about pubs here. Also, you argue that you can use the mc's to get to the building hive. If marines decide to set up a siege base, that isn't a possibility, until they are actually sieging the hive, which is a little late.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> you forget, your team has celerity, the skulks can get to the siege base twice as fast as with any defence upgrade, and once there do just as much if not more damage. Celerity and Silence are probably the only upgrades I am personally willing to spend res on for a skulk before the sensory goes up. On top of that, it generally takes more than 2 minutes to have a siege base at 100%
[edit] until the rines get shotgun spammed a clerity or adrenilin fade is just as effective as a regen or cara fade.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> agreed, teamwork is the key to using movements and sens. You cant do a gorge rush on your own!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> dissagreed, celerity skulks are by far a better force for rambos trying to hold the map then either cara or regen skulks. Celerity gorges can pull of risky expansion maneuvours far better then regen or cara gorges, and generally better then redempt gorges because it takes them less time to rince and repeat unless they get beaten to super low hitpoints. Celerity gorges are actually a viable force on the battle field because they can rush in, do the long range damage and rush out.
Defense is usually picked first for a few reasons, its a better upgrade for fades as proven at least from my observations from hours upon hours of gameplay. Its also one of the only chambers that allows an alien team to break a 2 hive lockdown if the marines skip all their ugprades. But, they are mostly picked for the fade upgrade since they are usually a VERY big deciding factor in which team wins. The fades come out right when the hive does *usually* and those fades are needed to ward off the shotgun/siege rush's that usually follow from the 2nd hive.
Of course there are also other viable strategys that dont require fades at all as used with sesnory. But these seem to be less powerful although much more viable then seen through 1.04.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Defense is usually picked first for a few reasons, its a better upgrade for fades as proven at least from my observations from hours upon hours of gameplay. Its also one of the only chambers that allows an alien team to break a 2 hive lockdown if the marines skip all their ugprades. But, they are mostly picked for the fade upgrade since they are usually a VERY big deciding factor in which team wins. The fades come out right when the hive does *usually* and those fades are needed to ward off the shotgun/siege rush's that usually follow from the 2nd hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is true, I yeild that I would rather have a defence chamber first hive than a movement chamber first hive if I didn't trust my team to be able to put up a second hive. Generally however, in your standard issue pub (some good players some poor players) I think movement is the most adventagous first chamber.
Sensory is awesome, but to properly pull it off you need some good teamwork. With sensory chambers you need to do your damage before they can counter you with armor1/motion-tracking. after that point sensory chambers remain little more than an annoyance to marines, and aliens must suffer the lack of a really effective hive two onos/fade.
[edit] nothing is worse than a rambo gorge that decides to drop one sensory while the rest of the team is expecting a defence. The team NEEDS to know that you are gonna be going sensory first, otherwize you fail to set up an effective network 9 times out of 10.
A regen fade is certainly better than a celerity fade. Sure, the celerity fade will probably do more damage in a single encounter, but then they have to go all the way back to the hive, heal, and go back to fight. The regen fade will blink around the marines and make them waste ammo, while simultaneously healing. Another thing is that regen is quite helpful when killing electrified rt's. If you want to wait 3 or 4 minutes longer before being able to touch them (assuming a second hive is guaranteed), then I guess that's fine, but that can be quite a bit of res for the marines, at least on pubs where electricity is used.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Apr 27 2004, 05:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Apr 27 2004, 05:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Defense is usually picked first for a few reasons, its a better upgrade for fades as proven at least from my observations from hours upon hours of gameplay. Its also one of the only chambers that allows an alien team to break a 2 hive lockdown if the marines skip all their ugprades. But, they are mostly picked for the fade upgrade since they are usually a VERY big deciding factor in which team wins. The fades come out right when the hive does *usually* and those fades are needed to ward off the shotgun/siege rush's that usually follow from the 2nd hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is true, I yeild that I would rather have a defence chamber first hive than a movement chamber first hive if I didn't trust my team to be able to put up a second hive. Generally however, in your standard issue pub (some good players some poor players) I think movement is the most adventagous first chamber.
[edit] grammer <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I would very much disagree with you. But thats an opinion. Theres no real correct answer.
Most clans go defense first because if you go movement first and can't get the second hive up quick enough you're pretty much screwed. It's simply the safest option.
After reading this post, Ive played a few games and made MC's first, to the annoyment of my team. However, almost every game I made MC's first we won. Why?
Cus skulks and lerks seriously own with movement upgrades. Gorges to for that matter. Clerity or silence is by far better then cara or regen. I dont even bother getting defence upgrades as skulk, but I always get a movement upgrade.
And yes, I hear your arguement that if you dont have DC its hard as fade/onos or if you are trying to defend a hive/attack an outpost, ands its true.
However because youve really made it hard for them with the superior MC upgrades early on in the game, there not even looking to take your hive away, there finding it hard enough just to get out of base! And you should, easily get the second hive up with your DC's in time for any player wishing to go fade.
When it comes down to it, most NS games are won within the first 5 minutes (most not all). And building MC first really gives that early advantage from the word go. I think alien players have forgotten how an alien team HAD TO PLAY back in 1.04. Bassically you couldnt let them out of base, if you did you were screwed. Now people are too concerned about getting fades and onos. Instead your main aim as an alien player should be to STOP THEM EXPANDING. Limit there movement, allow your gorges to build RT's/hives safley. If you do this sucessfully, you will win every single game as aliens.
haha I scrimmed earlier tonight with sensory and now that clans know how to counter it, it sucks quite frankly. I wouldn't be surprised if MC was better. sigh. GOGO DCs! So much fun for skulks.... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
edit: To the guy above me, you're kidding right? Stopping the marines from expanding with hive1 skulks (upgrade or not) is pretty much impossible. Unless of course you're on a pub where marines aim is just pathetic...
Well to those saying MC is better than DC.. just try it.. play with it over and over again until you realize how it sux..
Wasting 2 res for skulk upgrade is nonsense, its more valuable to save it.. celer wont help skulk that much..
Fade simply needs DC, without DC OR 2 hives fade is operating at much lower capacity, because of constant returns to hive. Considering growing hive is most likely being attacked, you simply need DC..
And yes, there is no way to stop marines without fade .. or perhaps multiple lerks.. right now marines simply kill all skulks no matter what upgrades they have..
If aliens have SC - well comm can use bug to scan unlimited times, very funny, but i still think even SC is more worthy first chamber then mc if done very early and SC placed in vents.
The benefit of lerk and skulk with movement upgrades would only be effective within early game. Without defense upgrades midgame to help compliment MCs or SCs (doubtfully the latter), skulks and lerks are usually downed easily.
I guess we would have to throw in benefits of having DC first.
- Healing. You put them away from a hive, you've got a healing station. You put t near the hive, you regenerate much faster, and it heals the hive. This practically means DCs help heal the hive in case of an early rush.
- Consideration for loss of the second hive. Like I've said above, if DC upgrades aren't there to compliment the MC/SC upgrades, you get downed quick as a skulk and to a certain extent, lerk. THis would also mean Onos and Fade support at midgame. In case you reach midgame without a second hive, Fades and Oni stand a fairly better chance with DCs first, compared to MCs. But that would be IF you don't have any second hive built or in the works midgame.
If the first hive were to have something much like MCs or SCs, Fades and Oni generally do receive benefits from them, but the DCs have upgrades that compliment them both very well, opposed to MC and SC upgrades.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
It is sad but true people. Whereas MC does make your troops more effective, a lot of the time NS can be won through attrition. And attrition means you pick the safest option, which is DC.
Forward healing, all round decent abilities and benefits to every species make it the safest option.
I love MC / SC first, truly I do, and I'll happily drop it in any game I can (I was one of their biggest proponents for every version too, from 1.x onwards). But I can still accept that DC simply is still that bit more efficient than anything else.
And sadly, too many people play to win, every game.
<!--QuoteBegin-Shockwave+Apr 27 2004, 09:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Apr 27 2004, 09:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It is sad but true people. Whereas MC does make your troops more effective, a lot of the time NS can be won through attrition. And attrition means you pick the safest option, which is DC.
Forward healing, all round decent abilities and benefits to every species make it the safest option.
I love MC / SC first, truly I do, and I'll happily drop it in any game I can (I was one of their biggest proponents for every version too, from 1.x onwards). But I can still accept that DC simply is still that bit more efficient than anything else.
And sadly, too many people play to win, every game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> My views are exactly the same as Shockwave!
I think there is nothing more boring than DC every friggen round.
The problem in my view is early MT boosts rines so much against the other two chambers its hard. MT completely negates silence, and cloak gets drilled by it. Celerity doesnt close the gap as easily because rines know exactly where you are coming from. Focus gets drilled by MT too because rines know exactly where you are coming from and kill you before you can get the lethal bite. SoF keeps you on even par but doesnt help you combat wise. Adren well...
See with the DC upgrades none of them are as severely weakened by MT as the others are.
I joined my regular server last night, and most the people on were regulars there. I went gorge and decided.... let's see if movement would be something good to start with.
When I asked the team, all the regulars were like 'yeah sure, go for it' but all the new players/etc were like "WTH NOOB" but i dropped 'em anyway.
Tactics got alot more interesting. I foudn myself as the frontline battle gorge healing my teammates with adren and keeping them alive while another player went gorge to drop another hive. I think the best advantage we had was the two lerks with silence... you can't hear 'em flying or coming at you.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>Movement first works very well if you plan around it. Skulks with silence or celerity can destroy squads of marines in certain parts of the map, and gorges and lerks with adren or celerity can use their natural support abilities such as light long-range firepower and healing spray to keep ahold of key map locations. Additionally, the trump-card of movement first on tournament matches where you would have friendly fire is that one teammate guarding the slowly building hive can attack the hive once, which allows the alien team to simultaniously use any nearby movement chaimbers to teleport to the hive and repulse the attackers. This only works with friendly fire because you need an alien to spit or bite at the hive a couple times to trigger the hive alert. However, it's the exact same as if the hive was fully constructed. Movement chambers first allows you to control a larger part of the map, simply because you can respond to crisis faster than the marines can create them. You're all over the map at once with MC first, but you have to use that speed advantage to be constantly on the offensive, and skilled skulks and lerks are a must. You can't get away with MC first if every single skulk is still getting gunned down by superior marine teamwork.
It's highly desirable to go movement first on some maps, especially any time friendly fire is enabled, such as in league matches and casual scrims and some certain pub servers. If your team is smart enough to have a plan, MC is totally workable.</span>
The one HUGE advantage of dc: HEALING! Thats it. And as I see it, the only way to solve it is to give aliens passive regeneration. (gets better with more hives). And come up with one new defence upgrade.
MC's and SC's are nice but they lack what the bigger aliens really need. And taking upgrades at the earlygame is not feasible, it slows your team as it takes 2 res everytime, so hives / fades, etc come later and you can't afford that because the fades are the deciding factor of the game. (atleast in scrims and clan matches).
Without Regen, Fades won't be able to take out the electrified RTs. The Marines can build 3 RTs outside of their base, elec them, then focus their entire team effort on offensive actions against the Alien RTs. Since Alien defensive capabilities are pathetic against mass Marine activity, the Alien RTs get butchered. Even if the faster Skulks and Fades can kill the Marines eventually, the Alien RT will have fallen already. Plus a Marine team that is constantly on offense means an Alien team that is constantly on defense... which means the Marines are constantly getting res while the Aliens are constantly losing it.
The Fade is a killing machine with Regen, but without Regen, a fast moving Fade is not only useless against elec RTs, he also has to deal with the aforementioned Motion Tracking. This means his guerilla-tactics aren't going to be very guerilla-ish anymore. Had he had Regen, though, he'd still be powerful enough to kick butt, regardless of whether or not he had the element of surprise.
Solution: remove Motion Tracking! Motion Tracking is the crappiest idea ever. The whole Aliens genre is supposed to be about survival horror, and seeing your enemy's every movement is not survival horror. :-P
Finally, a Regen Fade can easily destroy a turret farm by himself. So DC is required because Marine defenses are so powerful.
I agree... passive regen at hive1, passive hp boost at hive2 (or maybe a damage increase, enough to counter armor1? shrug.), and passive RoF/Speed increase at hive3 PLEASE make it so DCs aren't needed, besides passive regen just makes sense.
Very few ever get upgrades as skulks, and you need those early regen fades to deal a swift devastating blow to the marines which they cannot recover from.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swift Idiot+Apr 27 2004, 09:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swift Idiot @ Apr 27 2004, 09:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>Movement first works very well if you plan around it. Skulks with silence or celerity can destroy squads of marines in certain parts of the map, and gorges and lerks with adren or celerity can use their natural support abilities such as light long-range firepower and healing spray to keep ahold of key map locations. Additionally, the trump-card of movement first on tournament matches where you would have friendly fire is that one teammate guarding the slowly building hive can attack the hive once, which allows the alien team to simultaniously use any nearby movement chaimbers to teleport to the hive and repulse the attackers. This only works with friendly fire because you need an alien to spit or bite at the hive a couple times to trigger the hive alert. However, it's the exact same as if the hive was fully constructed. Movement chambers first allows you to control a larger part of the map, simply because you can respond to crisis faster than the marines can create them. You're all over the map at once with MC first, but you have to use that speed advantage to be constantly on the offensive, and skilled skulks and lerks are a must. You can't get away with MC first if every single skulk is still getting gunned down by superior marine teamwork.
It's highly desirable to go movement first on some maps, especially any time friendly fire is enabled, such as in league matches and casual scrims and some certain pub servers. If your team is smart enough to have a plan, MC is totally workable.</span> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Can we use normal fonts? Your size changes make it hard on my eyes. Anyways good post, all chambers are viable! I would say dc's are more beneficial but all chambers have a good chance at winning if used correctly.
Cloaking is the best, any experienced team (clan) can use this chamber with a devastating effect on the other team. I always go Sc, Dc then Mc and i find that with this combo me and my team usually wipe the rine side all over the place but sometimes it has failed and this is mainly down to the team getting off to a bad start or just being crap in general.
sc doesn't work in pubs if you don't let your team know about it beforehand. but then there's another problem. sc works ONLY if 3 of them are dropped within the first 1,5 minutes of the game. and even then it's not a guaranteed victory, even with a better-than-average team. there are just too many counters to it, and the fact that sc will handicap the alien team in many ways. (elec rt's, 2 hive lockdown, armor1, mt, scanner sweep.) the worst being electrocutation. *shivers* it's propably the only aspect of the game i truly dislike. with the new extended range, it's even worse.
ps: personally i LOVE sc, it fits my skulking style more than perfectly. but that doesn't change the fact that it usually doesn't work.
pps: mc is the only true 2nd-hive chamber. everywhere i see this idea rising about SC as second chamber. that works even worse as sc first.
CheeseLork on the ClorfJoin Date: 2003-12-15Member: 24396Members, Constellation
hmm...i dont really like SCs first. Perhpas its because i cnat really handle the upgrades...
most of the time (every time?) i played ns we had DCs or SCs first. I ve never tried MCs first...should do that. (well on co maps i always go Fade and my first upgrade is celerity! Not regen. But i thats because the maps are smaller)
i would really love to see changes to NaSe that boost the use of MC first. DC first is just...well...it has become boring. Always the same procedure. 1st hive DC; 2nd hive MC; and perhaps a 3rd hive with SC
Now I ll go out into the ns world and try using MCs first. Lets see if it works. (i ll return and tell you if i know!)
DC's would still be used to heal structures. They would also heal aliens faster, getting them back into the fight sooner. DC's will no longer be essential, but they will still be quite useful.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Well, I've put in an S&I thread over it, so passive regen could go in there.... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Please before the flaming starts, I'm suggesting slow passive, as an much lower powered alternative, not a replacement.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
early fades can ALSO bennefit from MC.
Why? Regen: it heals Celerity: to fast to get actually hit. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
yes.. celerity is a great 1 hive upgrade for fades. You are a insane fast thing LMG has way probs with, also you get fast to a hive for point1... heal.
Comments
you forget, your team has celerity, the skulks can get to the siege base twice as fast as with any defence upgrade, and once there do just as much if not more damage. Celerity and Silence are probably the only upgrades I am personally willing to spend res on for a skulk before the sensory goes up. On top of that, it generally takes more than 2 minutes to have a siege base at 100%
[edit] until the rines get shotgun spammed a clerity or adrenilin fade is just as effective as a regen or cara fade.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> agreed, teamwork is the key to using movements and sens.
You cant do a gorge rush on your own!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
dissagreed, celerity skulks are by far a better force for rambos trying to hold the map then either cara or regen skulks. Celerity gorges can pull of risky expansion maneuvours far better then regen or cara gorges, and generally better then redempt gorges because it takes them less time to rince and repeat unless they get beaten to super low hitpoints. Celerity gorges are actually a viable force on the battle field because they can rush in, do the long range damage and rush out.
Of course there are also other viable strategys that dont require fades at all as used with sesnory. But these seem to be less powerful although much more viable then seen through 1.04.
This is true, I yeild that I would rather have a defence chamber first hive than a movement chamber first hive if I didn't trust my team to be able to put up a second hive. Generally however, in your standard issue pub (some good players some poor players) I think movement is the most adventagous first chamber.
[edit] grammer
But when you think about it, how can you say no to a network of chambers that makes you (almost entirely) freakin' invisible?
[edit] nothing is worse than a rambo gorge that decides to drop one sensory while the rest of the team is expecting a defence. The team NEEDS to know that you are gonna be going sensory first, otherwize you fail to set up an effective network 9 times out of 10.
This is true, I yeild that I would rather have a defence chamber first hive than a movement chamber first hive if I didn't trust my team to be able to put up a second hive. Generally however, in your standard issue pub (some good players some poor players) I think movement is the most adventagous first chamber.
[edit] grammer <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would very much disagree with you. But thats an opinion. Theres no real correct answer.
Cus skulks and lerks seriously own with movement upgrades. Gorges to for that matter. Clerity or silence is by far better then cara or regen. I dont even bother getting defence upgrades as skulk, but I always get a movement upgrade.
And yes, I hear your arguement that if you dont have DC its hard as fade/onos or if you are trying to defend a hive/attack an outpost, ands its true.
However because youve really made it hard for them with the superior MC upgrades early on in the game, there not even looking to take your hive away, there finding it hard enough just to get out of base! And you should, easily get the second hive up with your DC's in time for any player wishing to go fade.
When it comes down to it, most NS games are won within the first 5 minutes (most not all). And building MC first really gives that early advantage from the word go. I think alien players have forgotten how an alien team HAD TO PLAY back in 1.04. Bassically you couldnt let them out of base, if you did you were screwed. Now people are too concerned about getting fades and onos. Instead your main aim as an alien player should be to STOP THEM EXPANDING. Limit there movement, allow your gorges to build RT's/hives safley. If you do this sucessfully, you will win every single game as aliens.
edit: To the guy above me, you're kidding right? Stopping the marines from expanding with hive1 skulks (upgrade or not) is pretty much impossible. Unless of course you're on a pub where marines aim is just pathetic...
Wasting 2 res for skulk upgrade is nonsense, its more valuable to save it.. celer wont help skulk that much..
Fade simply needs DC, without DC OR 2 hives fade is operating at much lower capacity, because of constant returns to hive. Considering growing hive is most likely being attacked, you simply need DC..
And yes, there is no way to stop marines without fade .. or perhaps multiple lerks.. right now marines simply kill all skulks no matter what upgrades they have..
If aliens have SC - well comm can use bug to scan unlimited times, very funny, but i still think even SC is more worthy first chamber then mc if done very early and SC placed in vents.
I guess we would have to throw in benefits of having DC first.
- Healing. You put them away from a hive, you've got a healing station. You put t near the hive, you regenerate much faster, and it heals the hive. This practically means DCs help heal the hive in case of an early rush.
- Consideration for loss of the second hive. Like I've said above, if DC upgrades aren't there to compliment the MC/SC upgrades, you get downed quick as a skulk and to a certain extent, lerk. THis would also mean Onos and Fade support at midgame. In case you reach midgame without a second hive, Fades and Oni stand a fairly better chance with DCs first, compared to MCs. But that would be IF you don't have any second hive built or in the works midgame.
If the first hive were to have something much like MCs or SCs, Fades and Oni generally do receive benefits from them, but the DCs have upgrades that compliment them both very well, opposed to MC and SC upgrades.
Forward healing, all round decent abilities and benefits to every species make it the safest option.
I love MC / SC first, truly I do, and I'll happily drop it in any game I can (I was one of their biggest proponents for every version too, from 1.x onwards). But I can still accept that DC simply is still that bit more efficient than anything else.
And sadly, too many people play to win, every game.
Forward healing, all round decent abilities and benefits to every species make it the safest option.
I love MC / SC first, truly I do, and I'll happily drop it in any game I can (I was one of their biggest proponents for every version too, from 1.x onwards). But I can still accept that DC simply is still that bit more efficient than anything else.
And sadly, too many people play to win, every game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
My views are exactly the same as Shockwave!
I think there is nothing more boring than DC every friggen round.
The problem in my view is early MT boosts rines so much against the other two chambers its hard. MT completely negates silence, and cloak gets drilled by it. Celerity doesnt close the gap as easily because rines know exactly where you are coming from. Focus gets drilled by MT too because rines know exactly where you are coming from and kill you before you can get the lethal bite. SoF keeps you on even par but doesnt help you combat wise. Adren well...
See with the DC upgrades none of them are as severely weakened by MT as the others are.
- RD
When I asked the team, all the regulars were like 'yeah sure, go for it' but all the new players/etc were like "WTH NOOB" but i dropped 'em anyway.
Tactics got alot more interesting. I foudn myself as the frontline battle gorge healing my teammates with adren and keeping them alive while another player went gorge to drop another hive. I think the best advantage we had was the two lerks with silence... you can't hear 'em flying or coming at you.
You can take and hold a hive on MC alone. giving a team willing to use its full potential.
It's highly desirable to go movement first on some maps, especially any time friendly fire is enabled, such as in league matches and casual scrims and some certain pub servers. If your team is smart enough to have a plan, MC is totally workable.</span>
Thats it.
And as I see it, the only way to solve it is to give aliens passive regeneration. (gets better with more hives). And come up with one new defence upgrade.
MC's and SC's are nice but they lack what the bigger aliens really need. And taking upgrades at the earlygame is not feasible, it slows your team as it takes 2 res everytime, so hives / fades, etc come later and you can't afford that because the fades are the deciding factor of the game. (atleast in scrims and clan matches).
The Fade is a killing machine with Regen, but without Regen, a fast moving Fade is not only useless against elec RTs, he also has to deal with the aforementioned Motion Tracking. This means his guerilla-tactics aren't going to be very guerilla-ish anymore. Had he had Regen, though, he'd still be powerful enough to kick butt, regardless of whether or not he had the element of surprise.
Solution: remove Motion Tracking! Motion Tracking is the crappiest idea ever. The whole Aliens genre is supposed to be about survival horror, and seeing your enemy's every movement is not survival horror. :-P
Finally, a Regen Fade can easily destroy a turret farm by himself. So DC is required because Marine defenses are so powerful.
make it so DCs aren't needed, besides passive regen just makes sense.
Very few ever get upgrades as skulks, and you need those early regen fades to deal a swift devastating blow to the marines which they cannot recover from.
It's highly desirable to go movement first on some maps, especially any time friendly fire is enabled, such as in league matches and casual scrims and some certain pub servers. If your team is smart enough to have a plan, MC is totally workable.</span> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can we use normal fonts? Your size changes make it hard on my eyes. Anyways good post, all chambers are viable! I would say dc's are more beneficial but all chambers have a good chance at winning if used correctly.
(Dies in tarpit)
ps: personally i LOVE sc, it fits my skulking style more than perfectly. but that doesn't change the fact that it usually doesn't work.
pps: mc is the only true 2nd-hive chamber. everywhere i see this idea rising about SC as second chamber. that works even worse as sc first.
most of the time (every time?) i played ns we had DCs or SCs first. I ve never tried MCs first...should do that. (well on co maps i always go Fade and my first upgrade is celerity! Not regen. But i thats because the maps are smaller)
i would really love to see changes to NaSe that boost the use of MC first. DC first is just...well...it has become boring. Always the same procedure. 1st hive DC; 2nd hive MC; and perhaps a 3rd hive with SC
Now I ll go out into the ns world and try using MCs first. Lets see if it works.
(i ll return and tell you if i know!)
so long
Please before the flaming starts, I'm suggesting slow passive, as an much lower powered alternative, not a replacement.
Why?
Regen: it heals
Celerity: to fast to get actually hit. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
yes.. celerity is a great 1 hive upgrade for fades. You are a insane fast thing LMG has way probs with, also you get fast to a hive for point1... heal.