Something For The New Clans
hawthorne
Join Date: 2003-10-05 Member: 21460Members
Join Date: 2003-10-05 Member: 21460Members
This is the best advice that I can give to the newer omega clans:
<b>scrim veteran teams (delta/gamma) whenever you can</b>
Most omega clans are very reluctant to scrim delta clans. Usually, "it only makes you better" is the only reason given. omega clans often argue that being "mowed over" teaches them nothing, and that they never get a chance to execute their strategies/gameplan.
The <b>biggest difference</b> between Omega clan X and Delta clan Y is gameplay, not gameplan. As long as your commander follows a very basic set of upgrading guidelines, your marine gameplan is adequate (very valuable thread at: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69242' target='_blank'>silverwolf's thread</a>). Review demos at ampednews.com to get ideas on alien gameplan. But gameplan equates to nothing when you do not have the experience to execute it through combat.
Take every opportunity play against the best competition - the fastest skulks and the best shooters. You will lose, and probably many many times, but you will not significantly improve your combat skills if you do not challenge yourself, and pit your team against the most experienced players. Your aim will improve, you will learn how to cover, and you will learn to coordinate ambushes - simply out of necessity.
This isn't for everyone, of course. But to the select few fresh faces who have both the inspiration and desire to win - it is a very rewarding experience. Scrims don't count - this is a fact. Make all your mistakes in practice, and LEARN from them and prepare, and you WILL win when it counts on match day.
Good luck in Season 3 - it's very nice to see the new faces.
-hawthorne
<b>Recommended Resources</b>
IRC:
#findnsscrim // #nspug on Gamesurge (ex-Gamesnet) IRC (irc.gamesurge.net)
Web:
Review demos and chat with vets at <a href='http://www.ampednews.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.ampednews.com/</a>
Public Servers:
66.235.187.77:27015 | #NSPUG Public Server
208.255.181.187:27016 | OSS NS
<b>scrim veteran teams (delta/gamma) whenever you can</b>
Most omega clans are very reluctant to scrim delta clans. Usually, "it only makes you better" is the only reason given. omega clans often argue that being "mowed over" teaches them nothing, and that they never get a chance to execute their strategies/gameplan.
The <b>biggest difference</b> between Omega clan X and Delta clan Y is gameplay, not gameplan. As long as your commander follows a very basic set of upgrading guidelines, your marine gameplan is adequate (very valuable thread at: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69242' target='_blank'>silverwolf's thread</a>). Review demos at ampednews.com to get ideas on alien gameplan. But gameplan equates to nothing when you do not have the experience to execute it through combat.
Take every opportunity play against the best competition - the fastest skulks and the best shooters. You will lose, and probably many many times, but you will not significantly improve your combat skills if you do not challenge yourself, and pit your team against the most experienced players. Your aim will improve, you will learn how to cover, and you will learn to coordinate ambushes - simply out of necessity.
This isn't for everyone, of course. But to the select few fresh faces who have both the inspiration and desire to win - it is a very rewarding experience. Scrims don't count - this is a fact. Make all your mistakes in practice, and LEARN from them and prepare, and you WILL win when it counts on match day.
Good luck in Season 3 - it's very nice to see the new faces.
-hawthorne
<b>Recommended Resources</b>
IRC:
#findnsscrim // #nspug on Gamesurge (ex-Gamesnet) IRC (irc.gamesurge.net)
Web:
Review demos and chat with vets at <a href='http://www.ampednews.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.ampednews.com/</a>
Public Servers:
66.235.187.77:27015 | #NSPUG Public Server
208.255.181.187:27016 | OSS NS
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I mean there are 30+ clans in omega, and i barely see any of them scrimming
#findnsscrim plz, the more clans that start scrimming the better
If you really desire to get good at this game and are willing to get your **** kicked scrimming delta teams is the way to go.
delta -> gamma (new) -> omega
Oh yea my clan is `NST..
why the split? :x
why the split? :x <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
the same reason why ..................................................................
(just because).
If you want to get better, the ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY way to get better, is to play people better then yourself. That is the only way to really get better. Sure you can get better due to confidence from beating up newbies but you have to understand that that confidence will make you even worse against a better team.
Newbie teams and Expert teams play very different. The strats you use to beat newbie teams are different then what you're going to need to beat expert teams.
Just the pure skill of the top teams ramboing is enough to take most newbie teams down. But if you get used to playing newbie teams you will think you can handle situations that you can't. Meaning, against a newbie team maybe you can cross a hallway with 2 marines at the end of it and live. But when your playing a top team, there could only be 1 marine back there but hes going to hit 90% of his bullets and you'l die.
You need to learn how to fight against the top players, then you need to learn teamwork and trusting your team, covering. You gotta trust that guy watching your back, you can't have your 4 man assault team spinning 360's constantly.
Anyways....point is, PLAY THE TOP TEAMS. I read above someone was like "Getting beat 20 times in a row just makes us want to quit"....or something to that regard. I agree, I've rung for so many teams and after every game they yell and analyze everything that went wrong. Pick out one thing maybe to talk about, and work on it. Don't throw a strat out because it doesn't work on the first try, it will take 20 tries to really get it to a point you can win with it. practice practice practice scrim scrim scrim against anyone and everyone that is better then you. Then you will find yourself beating teams you originally were losing to sooner then you think.
not a flame, just an observation
there are a great number of potential situations, on both the macro and micro levels. watching demos (if you watch them carefully) can speed up your decision making in clutch situations simply because you know the best action to take. further practice in scrim/pugs improves this.
I don't think its worth it to try forcing new teams to scrim upper level teams. They can't really practice strats effectively, and the only thing it really helps them with is personal skill.
But that is up for clans deciding for themselves. Losing in a scrim means nothing, so neither does winning. Hopefully they can fit themselves in a niche where they think they are improving the most.
Oh yea my clan is `NST.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Just to let you guys know, top clans in other games (such as CS) do not even scrim begaining teams very often, if at all.
So if NS ever grows to the point where finding a scrim is easy, then new clans will not have the chances they do now to scrim top clans. So don't take it for granted saying "I don't like getting my butt kicked" because you never know when you will have the opprotunity to play a top clan.
fundamentals (personal skill) of shooting and teamwork are things that stay with the team through any strategy, and should be the focus of newer teams instead of strategy.
plans are *useless* if your marines do not have the experience to handle the ambushes that they will face. very boring, unoriginal, uninventive strategies (i.e. using lots of blockers on the goal line and running the football straight in) are often at the core of a winning team's game.
strats very very very very often fall apart in the field. teams who can adapt (read: natural selection) to changing situations during the game are far more likely to win than a team who focuses their gameplan around "<innovative strategy here>", only to fail when the opposing team adapts their gameplay to counter "<innovative strategy here>"
aliens is pretty much the only side that needs pre-planned strategies. but even those can be best learned from observing/playing more experienced clans.
When people used to spec myself and my former team (sYn), they would try to copy our own strat as best they could, and try to use it against us. They always failed because our strats were designed for specifcally OUR players. We had an understanding and we were always on the same page. Thats not to say that other teams are bad because they couldn't copy our strats, but it looked that way when they constantly get smashed. Viewing demos to get ideas is very good, but add your own twist to a strategy that you feel would customize it to fit YOUR needs.
Don't be afraid to spend an hr or 2 before a scrim to find new siege spots, stalk points, or anything else that might help you get a victory. Plan our your strategy for the map BEFORE the scrim, then execute it to the best of your ability.
Just a little advice on demos
I know in some of the older games, top clans weren't willing to help the younger clans as they were too self righteous.
- RD
Scrim, Scrim, and Scrim, find the best team you can to scrim, ,and learn from what happened. You don't learn from stomping someone, you learn from trial and error. Only by fighting good teams do you realise where your true weakness lie.
One thing though is that you have the be critical about your gameplay. Watch your demos and find out what you have done wrong. I try to watch as many of my demos that I can where I know I screwed up big, along with all of my comander demos to figure out exactly what went wrong.
Learn from your own gameplay along with others, watch other peoples demos (dl @ ampednews.com)
<img src='http://www.amobile.org/ren/theone.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
If you can't discern what is on the screen, you aren't pro enough.
EDIT: might want to reduce the size of it though(using something like MSPaint...)
For those intrested: that's an onos charging at a marine, and with radeon cards, you can activate effects like this using filters, including this cool-looking but ultimtly useless ASSCI effect.
Is that the Ascii option on those video card drivers? There's a bunch of effects to play games with. That onos is cool.
- RD
Plz reduce size, killed me to download
I think the best advice is:
Figure out what you want to practice and find games that allow you to achieve that.
Playing teams of equal or lesser skill allows you to see the fundamentals of a strat, allow you to try new things and figure out what works/doesn't on a fundemental game level (like different base guarding options, player, mines, elec'd tf etc)
Playing teams of better skill allows you to practice implementing your strats quicker and being more decisive in your decisions (comms)
Playing teams like #cri allow you to practice aim, and if you can get someone to watch, you can learn many technical things that help your game...
(like Cloud_King's fading which is fantastic allowed me to get ideas on how to improve my playing)
Even more important though is to play with teams that you have/can have a relationship with.
One of my favourite moments in NS was getting beaten by {MA} in CAL, then sitting down with their comm and discussing exactly what we did wrong, or where he felt we fell apart. This allowed us to make alterations to our game (it was a strat thing) and allowed us to improve.
This would never have happened if I hadn't talked to the comm right after the game and established a relationship with him.
I really think taking 5 minutes and deciding what you want to work on before looking for a scrim will allow you to make better use of your scrimming time.
fundamentals (personal skill) of shooting and teamwork are things that stay with the team through any strategy, and should be the focus of newer teams instead of strategy.
plans are *useless* if your marines do not have the experience to handle the ambushes that they will face. very boring, unoriginal, uninventive strategies (i.e. using lots of blockers on the goal line and running the football straight in) are often at the core of a winning team's game.
strats very very very very often fall apart in the field. teams who can adapt (read: natural selection) to changing situations during the game are far more likely to win than a team who focuses their gameplan around "<innovative strategy here>", only to fail when the opposing team adapts their gameplay to counter "<innovative strategy here>"
aliens is pretty much the only side that needs pre-planned strategies. but even those can be best learned from observing/playing more experienced clans. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You misunderstand me. I am not talking about broad strategies that will guide a team through the scrim. I am merely talking about small stuff like, getting A2 instead of W3, getting MT first, or trying no base guard strat, or a 3 fade strat no permagorge strat.
How are these teams able to discern whether these are viable strategies if they will lose anyways?
Personal skill isn't purely gained from just playing the best players either. When I started playing in 1.02-1.03, I remember going against some of the best players at the time and getting rolled on. Did I learn anything? Nothing besides basic things like where to stand in a hallway or good ambushing spots. I got better to the point where I am now by continually playing with players better and me, but not to the point where I was overwhelmed.
Like if you were trying to improve at anything, you would continue to challenge yourself more and more. A highschool football player will not learn anything if he goes straight to the pros, besides how to take a hit. I think this can be applied to anything.
I'm not saying for clans never to scrim the best teams. Actually I think there are some things to be learned, but you need to be able to grasp more basic concepts before you will be able to learn how to play like the pros.
Our ultimate tie was due to a awsome strategy of waiting for the marines to leave their base and rush it with a 6 skulk rush. In which it worked giving us a tie <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I would have to agree with Hawthorne that playing clans better than you whether they be Omega/Gamma/Delta is a good start. In a old clan I was in we played Xen nearly every day which if my memory is correct Exigent with different members and such. We came close to tieing them a few times but fell short. So when the tie came to play in CAL against the lower end teams it was not as hard.
All in all play clans better than yours. Only way to get better IMO <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think it would be funny to see like 4 omega teams with 1 or 2 dn players and then we play eachother and meet up on lineage 2 after joking about it. This could coneivably **** up cal though I guess :\ ah well Othells problem!~