<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Medpacks and ammo are a waste in many cases. They are only really useful in crucial battles. And guess what? Good commanders often spectate those crucial battles. You should be able to drop medpacks and ammo without having your marines to tell you. 9 times out of 10, if somebody requests ammo or a medpack, most likely it's just a waste of res. Just let them die, they come free from the IP, it doesn't matter. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, low tech alive soldiers are more effective than high tech dead ones. The commanders job is to keep the soliders alive and get them new technologies to surpress the aliens. Keeping them alive allows you to take more ground, and with RFK its really not all that bad to med an ammo your soldiers.
You say you are one the best commanders you know? You must not know many comms. Please only write guides if you know what you are doing. Otherwise bad commanding can become as realistic as commanders still doing the 2 hive lockdown.
You cannot kill decent fade with just lmgs. If you can't kill that first fade, it will keep holding your marines at bay long enough for other aliens to evolve better lifeforms.
I have seen many pub games where marines control almost all resource towers and one good fade kills them all because they don't have any good guns.
It is true that unskilled fades are easy to kill even with lmg's. Unfortunately the most skilled players in alien team will probably be the first who will evolve to fades (they kill marines fast so they get res fast). So it is not bad idea to assume that first fades can play and thus hand out shotties.
<!--QuoteBegin-Rapier7+May 2 2004, 06:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rapier7 @ May 2 2004, 06:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Upgrades are important. In fact, it's my number one priority. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The gist of my whole argument is that your number one priority should be killing the hive. Upgrades are the means towards an end but not the only means, and frequently not the most efficient means. If you stick to an inflexible plan you will lose unnecessarily.
Look at it this way. Any time you lose a particularly hard fought game where your marines end up holding out vs fades and onos for twenty minutes on one or two nodes, you should probably consider the reason you lost to be wholly your fault. The plan you chose was the wrong one considering the circumstances.
Personally, at the beginning of every pub game I command, I send my entire team directly at the aliens first hive. I usually tell them to go for the node first, because it's more conservative than trying to spawncamp, and it's a good indication of the type of resistance you're going to get for the rest of the game. Either the aliens will meet them on the way and they will have to fight to get to the hive, or they will be able to walk in and shoot it down. If the former, marines will probably be spawning one at a time for a while, and can be sent to the next closest nodes, etc, generally widening out from the original hive. This sort of pressure is usually so effective that I entirely skip weapon upgrades because they make the game too boring and quick.
That's the type of conditional commanding that is really effective. And if you watch the best comms, that's how they'll play. When do you get upgrades? Get them when they're useful. When do you get shotguns? When they're useful.
(e)Kent, I wasn't saying that upgrades are the single most important aspect of the marine game, I'm saying it's the most important job for a commander to do.
Of course that killing all hives and aliens are the ultimate goal, that's a given, but I say that upgrades, not medspamming is the easiest means to that end.
Firewater, I've read your comments about NS, and frankly, I'm sick of your elitist attitude. When you say RFK makes up for a medspam, you obviously have never gotten a medspam. I've seen comms drop over 10 medpacks on one marine (who wasn't even doing anything important at the time) just to keep them alive, and in many cases, they died! So what if you get one kill? That's just one medpack paid over. When I say that when marines die, they come out stronger, they DO come out stronger, and thus are able to live longer every time they come fresh out of the IP. In the long run, your upgraded marines will fare better than marines who got a bit of a headstart in the beginning, because those are VERY temporary aids, while upgrades are not.
I never said NOT to drop shotguns when fades start appearing, I'm saying to observe the effectiveness of the fade first, and if your marines aren't up to scratch, THEN start dropping shotguns.
Lito:
Ifs and buts...whatever.
Expect the worst case scenario? That is the most incredibly retarded piece of advice I've ever seen someone give. Expect the REALISTIC case scenario, as in, what is MOST LIKELY to happen. If I should start saying to younger kids, "The worst case scenario is that you're going to die, right this second, and there's practically nothing you can do." that's giving them a very stupid outlook on life. Work hard, and you'll get it done, that's what you aim for, because MOST of the times, that's the key thing to do.
On, so a marine isn't dead until 3 onos start showing up? So I CAN send off all my marines to do their thing, until 3 onos start showing up....great advice, directly contradictory of what you previously said.
I'd like to take this moment to say the new med/ammo system is rubbish. Now on with my points. The only upgrade you need is a1, after that some well placed pressure at key points and nodes, medspam and welders are enough to contain any aliens and remove the need for other upgrades (for fade/hive killing) because there won't be any fades or hives to kill if you keep your marine who's knifing the res node down alive.
If i've got a choice between keeping a marine alive at a key location or letting him die so he can run back there with 20% more effective weapons later then i think i'll choose to keep him alive there and then. A dead marine is no good to anyone and if i can keep my marines alive i'm going to because at the end of the day they win the game. lvl 3 weps and ar3 are no good if everyones in the spawn queue.
Expect the worst case scenario? That is the most incredibly retarded piece of advice I've ever seen someone give. Expect the REALISTIC case scenario, as in, what is MOST LIKELY to happen. If I should start saying to younger kids, "The worst case scenario is that you're going to die, right this second, and there's practically nothing you can do." that's giving them a very stupid outlook on life. Work hard, and you'll get it done, that's what you aim for, because MOST of the times, that's the key thing to do.
On, so a marine isn't dead until 3 onos start showing up? So I CAN send off all my marines to do their thing, until 3 onos start showing up....great advice, directly contradictory of what you previously said. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks for the flame. I appreciate it. Try it act a little more mature, ne?
I didn't say <b>expect</b> the worst case scenario. I said its <b>best</b> to use the worst case scenario so that its that much easier when you're met up with a much more realistic (and common) scenario.
3 Onos is a dire situation, but obviously unless the aliens are swimming in res, you're not going to meet up in this kind of situation. But hell, if you're prepared for 3 onos, i'd say you're pretty much prepared for anything else that comes your way is what i'm getting at.
And to apply it to your example, it would go something like "You could suddenly find yourself soaring head-first into the windshield and 15 feet from the car if the car comes to an abrupt stop and you're not wearing your seatbelt. You'll land on your head, splattering your brains on the pavement, wither in agony in a hospital for a few hours then die." More likely than not thats not going to happen, but if you're prepared for that kind of situation (by wearing a seatbelt; OMJ!), then how are you not even <i>more</i> prepared for the more common situation: "You're rear ended on the freeway, your body flies forward, but the seatbelt keeps you nice and tight in the chair, preventing any injury".
You can't always know and expect themost realistic/common case scenario, so why not expect the worst case scenario and work from there?
To the main of your post, first of all, you should be able to gauge just what the enemy is doing, when in hell (if the game is going well for you) are you going to expect three onos to come up and kill you? Even then, 3 onos are a piece of cake if you have about 4 HMGs.
When you anticipate for the worst case scenario, you're probably going to go to a different course of action than when you are expecting the common case scenario.
An actual example:
During D-day, when the paratroopers of the AEF landed upon Normandy, Germany automatically assumed that the size of force was much larger than it actually was (due to messages of landings here and there, pretty much everywhere). The Germans acted in a confused and hesitant manner, not wanting to get caught in the open, and outnumbered.
In actual truth, the Germans grossly overestimated the number of troops, the result was to pull back, consolidate, counter attack. This gave the AEF the time they needed to establish a beachhead, and start taking over Europe.
In most cases, you can't prepare for a worst case scenario, and when you do, you usually choose a stupid (in hindsight) course of action.
In NS, an example:
One lone skulk finds a LA marine close to the hive, he immediately assumes the worst and thinks, "OMGZ! HE'S GONNA PGZORZ!", and then start spamming, "GET TO THE HIVEZORZ!!!!!!!11111", and of course, his buddies start rushing that one marine, smiting the hell out of him, while the other marines start taking alien territory due to the aliens pulling back, while the PG may or may not be set up, you're still taking a big risk by asking your forces to pull back.
And Lito, if you read the top part of your post, and the bottom, you contradicted yourself. Good job.
Rapier, you arn't the best comm ever. Get over yourself.
Your guide is usefully in total n00b pub situations, but when there are any players of any skill they can handle a jp/hmg with lvl 2 ap/wep.
IMO the most important job of the commander is to make decisions. Comms don't need to drop turrets to kill aliens. Comms don't need to medspam to heal marines. Comms need to decide where to send everyone, what they shoul do, how they shold act.... not fight for them. If a HA/GL/Welder HA train of 4 dies to an onos and a fade, no ammount of yelling will change it.
Comms have to be the best at adapting. Remember, the point of the game is to prevent the enemy from spawning, and then kill all of the enemy. Sometimes a 3 person JP/GL manual siege will take out a hive. Sometimes it won't. Only experience, not statistics, will tell you what to do.
Oh and btw whoever made the argument about a huge IP wait, your obs has a little thing called beacon. (no, not bacon <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
<!--QuoteBegin-Rapier7+May 3 2004, 06:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rapier7 @ May 3 2004, 06:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To the main of your post, first of all, you should be able to gauge just what the enemy is doing, when in hell (if the game is going well for you) are you going to expect three onos to come up and kill you? Even then, 3 onos are a piece of cake if you have about 4 HMGs.
When you anticipate for the worst case scenario, you're probably going to go to a different course of action than when you are expecting the common case scenario.
An actual example:
During D-day, when the paratroopers of the AEF landed upon Normandy, Germany automatically assumed that the size of force was much larger than it actually was (due to messages of landings here and there, pretty much everywhere). The Germans acted in a confused and hesitant manner, not wanting to get caught in the open, and outnumbered.
In actual truth, the Germans grossly overestimated the number of troops, the result was to pull back, consolidate, counter attack. This gave the AEF the time they needed to establish a beachhead, and start taking over Europe.
In most cases, you can't prepare for a worst case scenario, and when you do, you usually choose a stupid (in hindsight) course of action.
In NS, an example:
One lone skulk finds a LA marine close to the hive, he immediately assumes the worst and thinks, "OMGZ! HE'S GONNA PGZORZ!", and then start spamming, "GET TO THE HIVEZORZ!!!!!!!11111", and of course, his buddies start rushing that one marine, smiting the hell out of him, while the other marines start taking alien territory due to the aliens pulling back, while the PG may or may not be set up, you're still taking a big risk by asking your forces to pull back.
And Lito, if you read the top part of your post, and the bottom, you contradicted yourself. Good job. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The whole point that i'm trying to get across is if you take the worst possible case scenario, even if the situation really turns out to be the best case scenario, you are better prepared for it
4 HMGs can take 3 onos. 4 HMGs can take about ANYTHING. THAT is what i'm trying to say. Say you heard wrong and those "3 onos" are really "3 skulks". Did you lose out when you passed out the equipment? Your marines were better prepared for it. Don't think "I should of passed out shotguns" or "LMGs probably would of handled that just as well". There is no such thing as overkill. If you've got the res, HMGs for skulks are not wasting res, it further increases your domination over them.
So the skulk in your example thought he was going to put up a phase gate: The worst possible scenario would follow that.
The skulk finds itself in an awkward position, assumes for the worst, and calls in his buddies.
What if he didn't? He goes attack him and 2 outcomes arises:
1a. He kills the marine off, any hive danger is immediately relieved.
1b. He is heard, killed, and pg goes up. Shotguns phase through and while your teammates scramble to try and save it, they pump a clip each and the hive is down.
So the whole story is, in a worst case scenario manner:
2: Call in the buddies, Kill the marine, lose alien territory on the opposite side of the map.
Option 2 sounds most appealing.
then consider the most realistic case scenarios (just made some up. These are probably not the most realistic case scenarios):
1: Comm heard gestating, and he was chosen to ninja marine it to death.
2: It really is a phasegate, but the guys will get here before they do any real damage
3: Comm wants him to pump a couple clips into the hive as an annoyance.
4: He's loaded to the brim with ammo, and he's ready to spawncamp the hell out of that hive.
5: Just a scout. The comm doesn't expect him to live very long.
6: a Rambo that has his eyes set on those beautiful dee sees
Substitute the worst case scenario answer for them: You call in your buddies, he has no chance to survive. You lose a bit of territory in other areas.
But hell...Who says you're going to die when you attack him? Who says they have phasegates researched? who says his ninja marine is really a |\|!|\|j4 marine? No one. But Is it wrong to call in the guys to kill him off? Is the chance that the marine will survive (then begin pumping clip after clip into your comrades when they spawn) worth not losing that alien territory?
By considering the worst case scenarios, you've already prepared for all the options available.
Kill him with some back-up. Nothing will happen. Lose a bit of territory.
Kill him by yourself and millions of possibilities open up. But you always know that if you had that back-up, those millions of possibilities strain down to one: Nothing happens. Lose territory.
Do correct me if you disagree with anything.
As for contradicting myself. I said "best" referring to the previous post, but used "expect" in context of the last sentence. So, it wasn't really a contradiction.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh and btw whoever made the argument about a huge IP wait, your obs has a little thing called beacon. (no, not bacon )<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bacon (no, no beacon :o) would defeat the whole purpose of the 3 marines that were pushing for the waypoint.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Rapier, you arn't the best comm ever. Get over yourself.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The context was that he was the best commander <b>he knew</b>.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->IMO the most important job of the commander is to make decisions. Comms don't need to drop turrets to kill aliens. Comms don't need to medspam to heal marines. Comms need to decide where to send everyone, what they shoul do, how they shold act.... not fight for them. If a HA/GL/Welder HA train of 4 dies to an onos and a fade, no ammount of yelling will change it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If that were the case, the "Commander Console" would be renamed to the "Waypoint Machine". The point of the comm IS to drop equipment and buildings as well as direct his men. This is why guides such as these spring up because most people just don't have the experience to handle so many tasks at a time, and uses guides to try to make sense of all the gibberish that is commanding.
If you are busy building up base, and squad one is screaming for a res node, and you can't immediately whip over there, drop it, then whip back to base while giving out meds to Squad 2 and researching armor1, you are not fit to command.
<!--QuoteBegin-Rapier7+May 3 2004, 03:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rapier7 @ May 3 2004, 03:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (e)Kent, I wasn't saying that upgrades are the single most important aspect of the marine game, I'm saying it's the most important job for a commander to do.
Of course that killing all hives and aliens are the ultimate goal, that's a given, but I say that upgrades, not medspamming is the easiest means to that end.
Firewater, I've read your comments about NS, and frankly, I'm sick of your elitist attitude. When you say RFK makes up for a medspam, you obviously have never gotten a medspam. I've seen comms drop over 10 medpacks on one marine (who wasn't even doing anything important at the time) just to keep them alive, and in many cases, they died! So what if you get one kill? That's just one medpack paid over. When I say that when marines die, they come out stronger, they DO come out stronger, and thus are able to live longer every time they come fresh out of the IP. In the long run, your upgraded marines will fare better than marines who got a bit of a headstart in the beginning, because those are VERY temporary aids, while upgrades are not.
I never said NOT to drop shotguns when fades start appearing, I'm saying to observe the effectiveness of the fade first, and if your marines aren't up to scratch, THEN start dropping shotguns.
Lito:
Ifs and buts...whatever.
Expect the worst case scenario? That is the most incredibly retarded piece of advice I've ever seen someone give. Expect the REALISTIC case scenario, as in, what is MOST LIKELY to happen. If I should start saying to younger kids, "The worst case scenario is that you're going to die, right this second, and there's practically nothing you can do." that's giving them a very stupid outlook on life. Work hard, and you'll get it done, that's what you aim for, because MOST of the times, that's the key thing to do.
On, so a marine isn't dead until 3 onos start showing up? So I CAN send off all my marines to do their thing, until 3 onos start showing up....great advice, directly contradictory of what you previously said. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Nah never in my 500+ scrims and hours of pubs have I've ever gotten medspammed ever, you are right.
Maybe if comms just dropped a few medpacks, not like 20. IT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP GROUND, because that marine could take down a res node, or build one for me, which = good. What good is all the tech if the marines don't make it to a hive to use it? What good is a marine in a spawn queue? It is better to have low tech alive soldiers than high tech dead ones who cannot keep any ground. A dead soldier is dead weight, sorry. Before making a definitive guide, perhaps maybe you should learn the game or perhaps (i'm going out on a limb here), maybe ask one of the top commanders to see if the information you have posted is correct?
BLASPHEMY.
(FYI, you can medspam, and tech if you don't suck <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Sorry, FW is in the right on this one in regards to any situation where commanding is actually necessary. Assuming the soldier is competent and theres no compelling reason for him to get back to base via IP, meds are the way to go. It'll cost you an average of 4-6 res to keep a single LMGer alive throw a battle - and yes, only half of that will come back as RFK. But the most important part is <b>winning the fight</b>, holding or gaining the ground the fight occurred in and speedily moving on.
Upgrades aren't everything - the lowtech ones are vital, but can be researched while doing almost anything. The hightech ones are optional and nifty, but can't be researched during the most crucial phases of the game - hence not even very attractive.
The upgraderush strategy is popular in large pubs for obvious reasons - because medding a huge gank of marines is costly, whereas upgrading them is cheap. But honestly, those are pretty easy games to win unless the aliens suddenly get coordination.
just to perhaps curtail what has become somewhat of a flamey thread. a few things to note.
rapier comms on a fairly large (20, IIRC) pub. there a few things that happen with this -your marine skill can be quite variable -medding them is costly and not necessarily effective
lito comms on LunixMonster, a smallish server (16) with LOTS of regs, ergo -marine skill is usually above average -medding them and taking map control is quite important.
so, really, one must preface what sort of pub one is comming for. different statements have degrees of truth depending. and even though rapier was talking about pubs, the elite clanners had to comm in and quip about their scrim comm experiences. not really applicable.
and just a word of advice, perhaps rapier kinda set himself up for flaming by a few things, the title of his post, and his.. uhm.. observation of his being the 'best' comm he knows. the only ppl who can really rate your commanding is your marines. some of the better pub comms (Gold Leader, Stoneburg) i've played with have been diffident to a fault about their abilities, it's just the honourable thing to do.
i read lots of forums and i think this is pretty funny he tryes to do ppl a servas and he gets flamed and critsize him about the post. every 1 comms diffrently hes not saying how it has to be done its advice.
<!--QuoteBegin-Niteowl+May 4 2004, 11:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Niteowl @ May 4 2004, 11:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> observation of his being the 'best' comm he knows. the only ppl who can really rate your commanding is your marines. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, they'll all either be 'ogm cornmandor u roxor', because you won a game - no matter that you made several fatal mistakes during the whole thing - like too late A1, AA, bad awareness et cetera - or on the other hand, your marines can complain and moan although you're laying down an excellent game. Of course, in my case making fun of them whenever they proclaim "the entire alien team is bugged" doesn't win me popularity points, but I'll be damned if I let them get away with such a bad excuse <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The few comments that matter are those from people with experience and success on either side - meaning, the commentary of someone who rarely commands or does so craptastically carries less weight than say GoldLeader remarking on little things, like a bad position for a PG.
In short, figuring out what works best and who you want to listen to - the majority of people that will comment on your actions are narrow-minded clueless fuckwits that can't command their way out of a paperbag <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If this person is such a great comm, I would like to see him play competitively, no one wants advice from a "pub all-star" because the pub skill is very variable (generally on the low end, with few exceptions) In the clan scene, teams know what they are doing and know how to exploit bad commanding extremely well, atleast at the high end. So if this "Supreme Commander" would grace himself to the clan scene, that would be fantastic!
I'd even settle for him commanding a pug, just to see how mister "Supreme Commander" would do under some pressure.
I'd pay good money to see that. Please make it so. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I've seen more good pub comms than I can count on two hands. A couple of them have gone on to play competitively. That's just to say the skill is not that difficult that you won't see it.
Firewater, I adopted the title "Supreme Commander" merely because it sounds cool, and is the name of the Gas Powered Games RTS that will be the successor to Total Anniihlation.
I'll go on NS Pug sometime, I'd actually like to pick up some higher level play experience.
On, and Firewater, why NOT take advice from a good Public Server Commander? All the servers you go to ARE pubs, and most of them, you can't expect a level of clan participation, you might as well go with the "Pub strats".
Firewater, this is where your elitism starts to kick in. Who said I was the best commander for clan play? How important is clan play?
The answer? Not very.
But I will go on NS Pug, it just sounds like a good idea.
Clan commanders play under a lot more pressure than pub commanders. They are more likely to know the game more inside and out, and more likely to have more experienced than the pub allstar. It is probably safe to say from all my clan and pub experience that few comms can offer me any help (pub ones anyways). Your elitism kicked in when you said you are the best comm you know, and wrote this half-assed guide.
Clan play is important in terms of merrit. You do well in a pub, wow you must really know what you are talking about! Experienced competitive comms are amongst the best in the world, where as your pub status is variable determining on what server you play on. The pub spectrum is so broad with talent (ranging from clanners who also play on pubs, to people who THINK they are good, to people who are totally new). The clan scene has more people that have talent, know the game, and can take advantage of weak commanding.
Firewater, the main thing you fail to grasp is that maybe you don't know me as much as you think you do.
Public and clan play are totally different, you expect much more cooperation in the latter, not to mention the latter usually has less people involved. If it's the 15v15 NAR public server, you really think I'm going to medspam 14 marines? Even if it's the 10v10 LOC public server (the one I frequent most), can you afford to medspam 10 marines? Aren't upgrades more beneficial? Maybe that pub marine can kill that skulk with an extra bite or two with armor 2, maybe, maybe not.
The main disagreement between me and the vets is the medspam issue, and upgrades, you don't even try to address the other parts of the guide that I wrote.
Honestly, do you think I'd comm the way I comm on pubs the exact same way I'll comm when I command in a PUG?
I'm going to retract that 'best comm I know' statement. Instead, I'll say, "I am the most competent public server commander I know of". There, happy?
Firewater, EST time, during the weekend, I'll see you on #nspug.
I liked his guide. After reading the comments, I would also agree that there are of course several different strategies that would work, not just the loose strategic guide included in this post. I suppose that my point is that this guide shows one way to comm--which works. I'm sure that other ways of comming work as well, and I'm sure that the best courses of action and strats differ from team to team (pub) and map to map. That's just my two cents.
I sincerely doubt that you will show up, and I'm sure your "let your marines die" strategy will work wonders with the pug people.
I command pubs too and the more my troops are alive, the more they can get me. That is why your forgetem they can't win strategy is wrong. Try Commanding at the NSpug public server, see how far it gets you. Until you've proven yourself, you have no business writing guides, especially with incomplete, and wrong information.
If I remember correctly, the NS pug server has a 20 player capacity. Upgrades would rock there.
Firewater, did you even read what I posted? I said I wouldn't adopt the same strategy I use in a pub than I would in a higher level play game.
You think I'm going to let 20% of my available force die just like that? But I can afford an 11.1% loss, especially when those maps are balanced for 6v6 play.
I'll be on the NS pug pub server and in #nspug, if only to spite you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Honestly, do you think I'd comm the way I comm on pubs the exact same way I'll comm when I command in a PUG? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes because A)you don't have any experience commanding a pug, B)your guide says "Commanding 101: The Definitive Guide".
I'm glad I give you something to do. We'll see if you are any good.
<!--QuoteBegin-Rapier7+May 4 2004, 07:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rapier7 @ May 4 2004, 07:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If I remember correctly, the NS pug server has a 20 player capacity. Upgrades would rock there.
Firewater, did you even read what I posted? I said I wouldn't adopt the same strategy I use in a pub than I would in a higher level play game.
You think I'm going to let 20% of my available force die just like that? But I can afford an 11.1% loss, especially when those maps are balanced for 6v6 play.
I'll be on the NS pug pub server and in #nspug, if only to spite you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You do realize that even if the comm only dropped meds and ammo, and not even an ip, the marines would still probably win on the nspug pub server. It is pretty hard to lose a 10v10.
<!--QuoteBegin-Rapier7+Apr 30 2004, 10:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rapier7 @ Apr 30 2004, 10:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You are in charge. NEVER let some complaining marine (like me, for instance) tell you what to do. They can offer advice, BUT NEVER RELY ON A BACKSEAT DRIVER TO PULL YOU THROUGH THE GAME. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> hehe, im pretty well known as one of the nicest players in the local ns servers. except when someone tries to back seat comm me. then they dont get anything for the rest of the game, plus a nice little lecture on who the commander is and why he is in charge
<!--QuoteBegin-Rapier7+May 4 2004, 04:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rapier7 @ May 4 2004, 04:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Firewater, I adopted the title "Supreme Commander" merely because it sounds cool, and is the name of the Gas Powered Games RTS that will be the successor to Total Anniihlation.
I'll go on NS Pug sometime, I'd actually like to pick up some higher level play experience.
On, and Firewater, why NOT take advice from a good Public Server Commander? All the servers you go to ARE pubs, and most of them, you can't expect a level of clan participation, you might as well go with the "Pub strats".
Firewater, this is where your elitism starts to kick in. Who said I was the best commander for clan play? How important is clan play?
The answer? Not very.
But I will go on NS Pug, it just sounds like a good idea. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> why does he not take advice from a pub server commander? 90% of all clan commanders started out in pubs, commanding everyone to victory. I'm going to be betting that he knows what to do in almost every situation for a pub.
And the LOC server is not good at all. i clean up there all the time.
anyways, i want to know some things. i am a pub commander of fairly good quality, sometimes brilliant, sometimes the biggest nub ever, but have yet to really experience clan level. Could any of you people such as Firewater or anyone else, point out some things about the difference between pub- and clan comming, and why there are such differences?
Comments
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Wrong, low tech alive soldiers are more effective than high tech dead ones. The commanders job is to keep the soliders alive and get them new technologies to surpress the aliens. Keeping them alive allows you to take more ground, and with RFK its really not all that bad to med an ammo your soldiers.
You say you are one the best commanders you know? You must not know many comms. Please only write guides if you know what you are doing. Otherwise bad commanding can become as realistic as commanders still doing the 2 hive lockdown.
I have seen many pub games where marines control almost all resource towers and one good fade kills them all because they don't have any good guns.
It is true that unskilled fades are easy to kill even with lmg's. Unfortunately the most skilled players in alien team will probably be the first who will evolve to fades (they kill marines fast so they get res fast). So it is not bad idea to assume that first fades can play and thus hand out shotties.
The gist of my whole argument is that your number one priority should be killing the hive. Upgrades are the means towards an end but not the only means, and frequently not the most efficient means. If you stick to an inflexible plan you will lose unnecessarily.
Look at it this way. Any time you lose a particularly hard fought game where your marines end up holding out vs fades and onos for twenty minutes on one or two nodes, you should probably consider the reason you lost to be wholly your fault. The plan you chose was the wrong one considering the circumstances.
Personally, at the beginning of every pub game I command, I send my entire team directly at the aliens first hive. I usually tell them to go for the node first, because it's more conservative than trying to spawncamp, and it's a good indication of the type of resistance you're going to get for the rest of the game. Either the aliens will meet them on the way and they will have to fight to get to the hive, or they will be able to walk in and shoot it down. If the former, marines will probably be spawning one at a time for a while, and can be sent to the next closest nodes, etc, generally widening out from the original hive. This sort of pressure is usually so effective that I entirely skip weapon upgrades because they make the game too boring and quick.
That's the type of conditional commanding that is really effective. And if you watch the best comms, that's how they'll play. When do you get upgrades? Get them when they're useful. When do you get shotguns? When they're useful.
Of course that killing all hives and aliens are the ultimate goal, that's a given, but I say that upgrades, not medspamming is the easiest means to that end.
Firewater, I've read your comments about NS, and frankly, I'm sick of your elitist attitude. When you say RFK makes up for a medspam, you obviously have never gotten a medspam. I've seen comms drop over 10 medpacks on one marine (who wasn't even doing anything important at the time) just to keep them alive, and in many cases, they died! So what if you get one kill? That's just one medpack paid over. When I say that when marines die, they come out stronger, they DO come out stronger, and thus are able to live longer every time they come fresh out of the IP. In the long run, your upgraded marines will fare better than marines who got a bit of a headstart in the beginning, because those are VERY temporary aids, while upgrades are not.
I never said NOT to drop shotguns when fades start appearing, I'm saying to observe the effectiveness of the fade first, and if your marines aren't up to scratch, THEN start dropping shotguns.
Lito:
Ifs and buts...whatever.
Expect the worst case scenario? That is the most incredibly retarded piece of advice I've ever seen someone give. Expect the REALISTIC case scenario, as in, what is MOST LIKELY to happen. If I should start saying to younger kids, "The worst case scenario is that you're going to die, right this second, and there's practically nothing you can do." that's giving them a very stupid outlook on life. Work hard, and you'll get it done, that's what you aim for, because MOST of the times, that's the key thing to do.
On, so a marine isn't dead until 3 onos start showing up? So I CAN send off all my marines to do their thing, until 3 onos start showing up....great advice, directly contradictory of what you previously said.
If i've got a choice between keeping a marine alive at a key location or letting him die so he can run back there with 20% more effective weapons later then i think i'll choose to keep him alive there and then. A dead marine is no good to anyone and if i can keep my marines alive i'm going to because at the end of the day they win the game. lvl 3 weps and ar3 are no good if everyones in the spawn queue.
Expect the worst case scenario? That is the most incredibly retarded piece of advice I've ever seen someone give. Expect the REALISTIC case scenario, as in, what is MOST LIKELY to happen. If I should start saying to younger kids, "The worst case scenario is that you're going to die, right this second, and there's practically nothing you can do." that's giving them a very stupid outlook on life. Work hard, and you'll get it done, that's what you aim for, because MOST of the times, that's the key thing to do.
On, so a marine isn't dead until 3 onos start showing up? So I CAN send off all my marines to do their thing, until 3 onos start showing up....great advice, directly contradictory of what you previously said. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for the flame. I appreciate it. Try it act a little more mature, ne?
I didn't say <b>expect</b> the worst case scenario. I said its <b>best</b> to use the worst case scenario so that its that much easier when you're met up with a much more realistic (and common) scenario.
3 Onos is a dire situation, but obviously unless the aliens are swimming in res, you're not going to meet up in this kind of situation. But hell, if you're prepared for 3 onos, i'd say you're pretty much prepared for anything else that comes your way is what i'm getting at.
And to apply it to your example, it would go something like "You could suddenly find yourself soaring head-first into the windshield and 15 feet from the car if the car comes to an abrupt stop and you're not wearing your seatbelt. You'll land on your head, splattering your brains on the pavement, wither in agony in a hospital for a few hours then die." More likely than not thats not going to happen, but if you're prepared for that kind of situation (by wearing a seatbelt; OMJ!), then how are you not even <i>more</i> prepared for the more common situation: "You're rear ended on the freeway, your body flies forward, but the seatbelt keeps you nice and tight in the chair, preventing any injury".
You can't always know and expect themost realistic/common case scenario, so why not expect the worst case scenario and work from there?
When you anticipate for the worst case scenario, you're probably going to go to a different course of action than when you are expecting the common case scenario.
An actual example:
During D-day, when the paratroopers of the AEF landed upon Normandy, Germany automatically assumed that the size of force was much larger than it actually was (due to messages of landings here and there, pretty much everywhere). The Germans acted in a confused and hesitant manner, not wanting to get caught in the open, and outnumbered.
In actual truth, the Germans grossly overestimated the number of troops, the result was to pull back, consolidate, counter attack. This gave the AEF the time they needed to establish a beachhead, and start taking over Europe.
In most cases, you can't prepare for a worst case scenario, and when you do, you usually choose a stupid (in hindsight) course of action.
In NS, an example:
One lone skulk finds a LA marine close to the hive, he immediately assumes the worst and thinks, "OMGZ! HE'S GONNA PGZORZ!", and then start spamming, "GET TO THE HIVEZORZ!!!!!!!11111", and of course, his buddies start rushing that one marine, smiting the hell out of him, while the other marines start taking alien territory due to the aliens pulling back, while the PG may or may not be set up, you're still taking a big risk by asking your forces to pull back.
And Lito, if you read the top part of your post, and the bottom, you contradicted yourself. Good job.
Your guide is usefully in total n00b pub situations, but when there are any players of any skill they can handle a jp/hmg with lvl 2 ap/wep.
IMO the most important job of the commander is to make decisions. Comms don't need to drop turrets to kill aliens. Comms don't need to medspam to heal marines. Comms need to decide where to send everyone, what they shoul do, how they shold act.... not fight for them. If a HA/GL/Welder HA train of 4 dies to an onos and a fade, no ammount of yelling will change it.
Comms have to be the best at adapting. Remember, the point of the game is to prevent the enemy from spawning, and then kill all of the enemy. Sometimes a 3 person JP/GL manual siege will take out a hive. Sometimes it won't. Only experience, not statistics, will tell you what to do.
Oh and btw whoever made the argument about a huge IP wait, your obs has a little thing called beacon. (no, not bacon <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
When you anticipate for the worst case scenario, you're probably going to go to a different course of action than when you are expecting the common case scenario.
An actual example:
During D-day, when the paratroopers of the AEF landed upon Normandy, Germany automatically assumed that the size of force was much larger than it actually was (due to messages of landings here and there, pretty much everywhere). The Germans acted in a confused and hesitant manner, not wanting to get caught in the open, and outnumbered.
In actual truth, the Germans grossly overestimated the number of troops, the result was to pull back, consolidate, counter attack. This gave the AEF the time they needed to establish a beachhead, and start taking over Europe.
In most cases, you can't prepare for a worst case scenario, and when you do, you usually choose a stupid (in hindsight) course of action.
In NS, an example:
One lone skulk finds a LA marine close to the hive, he immediately assumes the worst and thinks, "OMGZ! HE'S GONNA PGZORZ!", and then start spamming, "GET TO THE HIVEZORZ!!!!!!!11111", and of course, his buddies start rushing that one marine, smiting the hell out of him, while the other marines start taking alien territory due to the aliens pulling back, while the PG may or may not be set up, you're still taking a big risk by asking your forces to pull back.
And Lito, if you read the top part of your post, and the bottom, you contradicted yourself. Good job. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The whole point that i'm trying to get across is if you take the worst possible case scenario, even if the situation really turns out to be the best case scenario, you are better prepared for it
4 HMGs can take 3 onos. 4 HMGs can take about ANYTHING. THAT is what i'm trying to say. Say you heard wrong and those "3 onos" are really "3 skulks". Did you lose out when you passed out the equipment? Your marines were better prepared for it. Don't think "I should of passed out shotguns" or "LMGs probably would of handled that just as well". There is no such thing as overkill. If you've got the res, HMGs for skulks are not wasting res, it further increases your domination over them.
So the skulk in your example thought he was going to put up a phase gate: The worst possible scenario would follow that.
The skulk finds itself in an awkward position, assumes for the worst, and calls in his buddies.
What if he didn't? He goes attack him and 2 outcomes arises:
1a. He kills the marine off, any hive danger is immediately relieved.
1b. He is heard, killed, and pg goes up. Shotguns phase through and while your teammates scramble to try and save it, they pump a clip each and the hive is down.
So the whole story is, in a worst case scenario manner:
1: Try to kill marine, die, pg goes up, hive down.
2: Call in the buddies, Kill the marine, lose alien territory on the opposite side of the map.
Option 2 sounds most appealing.
then consider the most realistic case scenarios (just made some up. These are probably not the most realistic case scenarios):
1: Comm heard gestating, and he was chosen to ninja marine it to death.
2: It really is a phasegate, but the guys will get here before they do any real damage
3: Comm wants him to pump a couple clips into the hive as an annoyance.
4: He's loaded to the brim with ammo, and he's ready to spawncamp the hell out of that hive.
5: Just a scout. The comm doesn't expect him to live very long.
6: a Rambo that has his eyes set on those beautiful dee sees
Substitute the worst case scenario answer for them: You call in your buddies, he has no chance to survive. You lose a bit of territory in other areas.
But hell...Who says you're going to die when you attack him? Who says they have phasegates researched? who says his ninja marine is really a |\|!|\|j4 marine? No one. But Is it wrong to call in the guys to kill him off? Is the chance that the marine will survive (then begin pumping clip after clip into your comrades when they spawn) worth not losing that alien territory?
By considering the worst case scenarios, you've already prepared for all the options available.
Kill him with some back-up. Nothing will happen. Lose a bit of territory.
Kill him by yourself and millions of possibilities open up. But you always know that if you had that back-up, those millions of possibilities strain down to one: Nothing happens. Lose territory.
Do correct me if you disagree with anything.
As for contradicting myself. I said "best" referring to the previous post, but used "expect" in context of the last sentence. So, it wasn't really a contradiction.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh and btw whoever made the argument about a huge IP wait, your obs has a little thing called beacon. (no, not bacon )<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bacon (no, no beacon :o) would defeat the whole purpose of the 3 marines that were pushing for the waypoint.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Rapier, you arn't the best comm ever. Get over yourself.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The context was that he was the best commander <b>he knew</b>.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->IMO the most important job of the commander is to make decisions. Comms don't need to drop turrets to kill aliens. Comms don't need to medspam to heal marines. Comms need to decide where to send everyone, what they shoul do, how they shold act.... not fight for them. If a HA/GL/Welder HA train of 4 dies to an onos and a fade, no ammount of yelling will change it.
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If that were the case, the "Commander Console" would be renamed to the "Waypoint Machine". The point of the comm IS to drop equipment and buildings as well as direct his men. This is why guides such as these spring up because most people just don't have the experience to handle so many tasks at a time, and uses guides to try to make sense of all the gibberish that is commanding.
If you are busy building up base, and squad one is screaming for a res node, and you can't immediately whip over there, drop it, then whip back to base while giving out meds to Squad 2 and researching armor1, you are not fit to command.
Of course that killing all hives and aliens are the ultimate goal, that's a given, but I say that upgrades, not medspamming is the easiest means to that end.
Firewater, I've read your comments about NS, and frankly, I'm sick of your elitist attitude. When you say RFK makes up for a medspam, you obviously have never gotten a medspam. I've seen comms drop over 10 medpacks on one marine (who wasn't even doing anything important at the time) just to keep them alive, and in many cases, they died! So what if you get one kill? That's just one medpack paid over. When I say that when marines die, they come out stronger, they DO come out stronger, and thus are able to live longer every time they come fresh out of the IP. In the long run, your upgraded marines will fare better than marines who got a bit of a headstart in the beginning, because those are VERY temporary aids, while upgrades are not.
I never said NOT to drop shotguns when fades start appearing, I'm saying to observe the effectiveness of the fade first, and if your marines aren't up to scratch, THEN start dropping shotguns.
Lito:
Ifs and buts...whatever.
Expect the worst case scenario? That is the most incredibly retarded piece of advice I've ever seen someone give. Expect the REALISTIC case scenario, as in, what is MOST LIKELY to happen. If I should start saying to younger kids, "The worst case scenario is that you're going to die, right this second, and there's practically nothing you can do." that's giving them a very stupid outlook on life. Work hard, and you'll get it done, that's what you aim for, because MOST of the times, that's the key thing to do.
On, so a marine isn't dead until 3 onos start showing up? So I CAN send off all my marines to do their thing, until 3 onos start showing up....great advice, directly contradictory of what you previously said. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah never in my 500+ scrims and hours of pubs have I've ever gotten medspammed ever, you are right.
Maybe if comms just dropped a few medpacks, not like 20. IT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP GROUND, because that marine could take down a res node, or build one for me, which = good. What good is all the tech if the marines don't make it to a hive to use it? What good is a marine in a spawn queue? It is better to have low tech alive soldiers than high tech dead ones who cannot keep any ground. A dead soldier is dead weight, sorry. Before making a definitive guide, perhaps maybe you should learn the game or perhaps (i'm going out on a limb here), maybe ask one of the top commanders to see if the information you have posted is correct?
BLASPHEMY.
(FYI, you can medspam, and tech if you don't suck <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Upgrades aren't everything - the lowtech ones are vital, but can be researched while doing almost anything. The hightech ones are optional and nifty, but can't be researched during the most crucial phases of the game - hence not even very attractive.
The upgraderush strategy is popular in large pubs for obvious reasons - because medding a huge gank of marines is costly, whereas upgrading them is cheap. But honestly, those are pretty easy games to win unless the aliens suddenly get coordination.
rapier comms on a fairly large (20, IIRC) pub. there a few things that happen with this
-your marine skill can be quite variable
-medding them is costly and not necessarily effective
lito comms on LunixMonster, a smallish server (16) with LOTS of regs, ergo
-marine skill is usually above average
-medding them and taking map control is quite important.
so, really, one must preface what sort of pub one is comming for. different statements have degrees of truth depending. and even though rapier was talking about pubs, the elite clanners had to comm in and quip about their scrim comm experiences. not really applicable.
and just a word of advice, perhaps rapier kinda set himself up for flaming by a few things, the title of his post, and his.. uhm.. observation of his being the 'best' comm he knows. the only ppl who can really rate your commanding is your marines. some of the better pub comms (Gold Leader, Stoneburg) i've played with have been diffident to a fault about their abilities, it's just the honourable thing to do.
Man, I'm defending my actions like crazy.
Well, they'll all either be 'ogm cornmandor u roxor', because you won a game - no matter that you made several fatal mistakes during the whole thing - like too late A1, AA, bad awareness et cetera - or on the other hand, your marines can complain and moan although you're laying down an excellent game. Of course, in my case making fun of them whenever they proclaim "the entire alien team is bugged" doesn't win me popularity points, but I'll be damned if I let them get away with such a bad excuse <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The few comments that matter are those from people with experience and success on either side - meaning, the commentary of someone who rarely commands or does so craptastically carries less weight than say GoldLeader remarking on little things, like a bad position for a PG.
In short, figuring out what works best and who you want to listen to - the majority of people that will comment on your actions are narrow-minded clueless fuckwits that can't command their way out of a paperbag <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'd even settle for him commanding a pug, just to see how mister "Supreme Commander" would do under some pressure.
I'll go on NS Pug sometime, I'd actually like to pick up some higher level play experience.
On, and Firewater, why NOT take advice from a good Public Server Commander? All the servers you go to ARE pubs, and most of them, you can't expect a level of clan participation, you might as well go with the "Pub strats".
Firewater, this is where your elitism starts to kick in. Who said I was the best commander for clan play? How important is clan play?
The answer? Not very.
But I will go on NS Pug, it just sounds like a good idea.
Clan play is important in terms of merrit. You do well in a pub, wow you must really know what you are talking about! Experienced competitive comms are amongst the best in the world, where as your pub status is variable determining on what server you play on. The pub spectrum is so broad with talent (ranging from clanners who also play on pubs, to people who THINK they are good, to people who are totally new). The clan scene has more people that have talent, know the game, and can take advantage of weak commanding.
Prove yourself before making definitive guides.
Public and clan play are totally different, you expect much more cooperation in the latter, not to mention the latter usually has less people involved. If it's the 15v15 NAR public server, you really think I'm going to medspam 14 marines? Even if it's the 10v10 LOC public server (the one I frequent most), can you afford to medspam 10 marines? Aren't upgrades more beneficial? Maybe that pub marine can kill that skulk with an extra bite or two with armor 2, maybe, maybe not.
The main disagreement between me and the vets is the medspam issue, and upgrades, you don't even try to address the other parts of the guide that I wrote.
Honestly, do you think I'd comm the way I comm on pubs the exact same way I'll comm when I command in a PUG?
I'm going to retract that 'best comm I know' statement. Instead, I'll say, "I am the most competent public server commander I know of". There, happy?
Firewater, EST time, during the weekend, I'll see you on #nspug.
I command pubs too and the more my troops are alive, the more they can get me. That is why your forgetem they can't win strategy is wrong. Try Commanding at the NSpug public server, see how far it gets you. Until you've proven yourself, you have no business writing guides, especially with incomplete, and wrong information.
Thanks.
Firewater, did you even read what I posted? I said I wouldn't adopt the same strategy I use in a pub than I would in a higher level play game.
You think I'm going to let 20% of my available force die just like that? But I can afford an 11.1% loss, especially when those maps are balanced for 6v6 play.
I'll be on the NS pug pub server and in #nspug, if only to spite you.
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Yes because A)you don't have any experience commanding a pug, B)your guide says "Commanding 101: The Definitive Guide".
I'm glad I give you something to do. We'll see if you are any good.
Firewater, did you even read what I posted? I said I wouldn't adopt the same strategy I use in a pub than I would in a higher level play game.
You think I'm going to let 20% of my available force die just like that? But I can afford an 11.1% loss, especially when those maps are balanced for 6v6 play.
I'll be on the NS pug pub server and in #nspug, if only to spite you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do realize that even if the comm only dropped meds and ammo, and not even an ip, the marines would still probably win on the nspug pub server. It is pretty hard to lose a 10v10.
hehe, im pretty well known as one of the nicest players in the local ns servers. except when someone tries to back seat comm me. then they dont get anything for the rest of the game, plus a nice little lecture on who the commander is and why he is in charge
I'll go on NS Pug sometime, I'd actually like to pick up some higher level play experience.
On, and Firewater, why NOT take advice from a good Public Server Commander? All the servers you go to ARE pubs, and most of them, you can't expect a level of clan participation, you might as well go with the "Pub strats".
Firewater, this is where your elitism starts to kick in. Who said I was the best commander for clan play? How important is clan play?
The answer? Not very.
But I will go on NS Pug, it just sounds like a good idea. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
why does he not take advice from a pub server commander? 90% of all clan commanders started out in pubs, commanding everyone to victory. I'm going to be betting that he knows what to do in almost every situation for a pub.
And the LOC server is not good at all. i clean up there all the time.
anyways, i want to know some things. i am a pub commander of fairly good quality, sometimes brilliant, sometimes the biggest nub ever, but have yet to really experience clan level. Could any of you people such as Firewater or anyone else, point out some things about the difference between pub- and clan comming, and why there are such differences?