I didnt say I hated that he wrote a lot just that most people wont read long posts. All of swift idiots posts are 2 pages long and I have read alot of them and he knows what he is talking about but he can really say the same stuff with 1/2 the words.
I would definately not upgrade the armory in the first moments. Nothing you can possible get out of it will be useful for long after it's done upgrading. You aren't gonna drop hmgs (you can't afford it yet), and you aren't gonna drop JP/HA (they'll have cruddy upgrades, and they'll be paper, as if you could afford them). Do it when you have the extra res to spare, usually around the 4 rt mark.
In the first moments, you have 3 priorities: expanding your economy, making sure you don't lose the base, and making permanant investments.
The only way to really fail the economy issue is if you have less than 15 res left after your initial base building, as you will have to wait to drop the rt. Every second that you spend with only one rt really hurts, so don't do it!
There are lots of ways to keep the base safe, and a pack of mines or two is normally plenty until you get more income. After about 3 minutes, I like the ring-around-the-tf electrify method, but there are lots of alternatives.
Finally, you need to get some permant upgrades ASAP! MT, armor and weapons upgrades should be purchased early and often. They are the single most cost effective way of improving the abilities of your marines, and, as I've said above, the marines are the only way you are going to kill anything bigger than a skulk.
In 5.5minutes I had level 1 armor/guns with 5 people with sg/jp. This easly raped the hive and we won. You can upgrade armor and weapons as the armory is upgrading. When you get level 1/1 stop save for proto/jp and for the rush. 5.5 minutes the jp rush is back baby.
<!--QuoteBegin-Act Chill+May 7 2004, 08:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Act Chill @ May 7 2004, 08:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In 5.5minutes I had level 1 armor/guns with 5 people with sg/jp. This easly raped the hive and we won. You can upgrade armor and weapons as the armory is upgrading. When you get level 1/1 stop save for proto/jp and for the rush. 5.5 minutes the jp rush is back baby. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i think it depends on the map, and the hive. ayumi, for instance, is pretty nasty for jpers.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mintman+May 4 2004, 03:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mintman @ May 4 2004, 03:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Only electrify if they've taken movement or sensory first and you've locked down the two other hives. It's the only time it's worthwhile. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> by then it is too late to be usefull.
early game you have only skulks gorges and 1 lerk ususally.
by then you are already killing fades / onos and you should only elect if you are spread thin with heavy casulties.
smart aliens will rush an undefended base with 75% of their team or more if you only drop mines.
<!--QuoteBegin-taboofires+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taboofires)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I would definately not upgrade the armory in the first moments. Nothing you can possible get out of it will be useful for long after it's done upgrading. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
4 min into the game you can easily afford 2 - 3 hmgs. that is how long it takes to upgrade and why I sometimes do it first.
<!--QuoteBegin-taboofires+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taboofires)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The only way to really fail the economy issue is if you have less than 15 res left after your initial base building, as you will have to wait to drop the rt. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I choose to be flexable... you are also dead if you cant cap the first res node because you are rushed. I never said you have to get elect b4 you get the first rt. sometimes i get my first rt before anything else depending on the players and the map.
<!--QuoteBegin-taboofires+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taboofires)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There are lots of ways to keep the base safe, and a pack of mines or two is normally plenty... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 20 res for 1 time protection that may work vs. 30 for continuous protection that cant be walked around.
You don't need hmgs 4 minutes into the game. Shotties will do the job just as well and cost only 2/3 as much. You <i>definately</i> don't need a GL, as the kharaa won't have been able to afford any significant number of chambers yet (unless you're heavily losing, after which it doesn't matter).
If you're going to rush jp, yeah you want to upgrade armory. If you beat the kharaa that badly, I suspect you would have won regardless of what strat you used (except maybe farming). But you can't really rush HA (pitiful in small groups).
So, if you're not doing some specific kind of rush, spend the res on something more immediately beneficial. Waiting 3 minutes to upgrade the armor is fine.
The biggest benefit of mines is that the assist the marines for cheap. A single mine can prevent a skulk from hiding behind your rt, luring you over, and then killing you because you came within melee range. The same is true of other structures in base that limit your LOS. At worst, you might have to get out the the chair for a second, but you aren't likely to die (very bad!). Trying to defend with only mines is a lost cause, naturally, but like I said, marines are the only real defense.
Comments
In the first moments, you have 3 priorities: expanding your economy, making sure you don't lose the base, and making permanant investments.
The only way to really fail the economy issue is if you have less than 15 res left after your initial base building, as you will have to wait to drop the rt. Every second that you spend with only one rt really hurts, so don't do it!
There are lots of ways to keep the base safe, and a pack of mines or two is normally plenty until you get more income. After about 3 minutes, I like the ring-around-the-tf electrify method, but there are lots of alternatives.
Finally, you need to get some permant upgrades ASAP! MT, armor and weapons upgrades should be purchased early and often. They are the single most cost effective way of improving the abilities of your marines, and, as I've said above, the marines are the only way you are going to kill anything bigger than a skulk.
i think it depends on the map, and the hive. ayumi, for instance, is pretty nasty for jpers.
by then it is too late to be usefull.
early game you have only skulks gorges and 1 lerk ususally.
by then you are already killing fades / onos and you should only elect if you are spread thin with heavy casulties.
smart aliens will rush an undefended base with 75% of their team or more if you only drop mines.
<!--QuoteBegin-taboofires+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taboofires)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I would definately not upgrade the armory in the first moments. Nothing you can possible get out of it will be useful for long after it's done upgrading.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
4 min into the game you can easily afford 2 - 3 hmgs. that is how long it takes to upgrade and why I sometimes do it first.
<!--QuoteBegin-taboofires+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taboofires)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
The only way to really fail the economy issue is if you have less than 15 res left after your initial base building, as you will have to wait to drop the rt.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I choose to be flexable... you are also dead if you cant cap the first res node because you are rushed. I never said you have to get elect b4 you get the first rt. sometimes i get my first rt before anything else depending on the players and the map.
<!--QuoteBegin-taboofires+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taboofires)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
There are lots of ways to keep the base safe, and a pack of mines or two is normally plenty... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
20 res for 1 time protection that may work vs. 30 for continuous protection that cant be walked around.
PS: see the additional info in first post.
If you're going to rush jp, yeah you want to upgrade armory. If you beat the kharaa that badly, I suspect you would have won regardless of what strat you used (except maybe farming). But you can't really rush HA (pitiful in small groups).
So, if you're not doing some specific kind of rush, spend the res on something more immediately beneficial. Waiting 3 minutes to upgrade the armor is fine.
The biggest benefit of mines is that the assist the marines for cheap. A single mine can prevent a skulk from hiding behind your rt, luring you over, and then killing you because you came within melee range. The same is true of other structures in base that limit your LOS. At worst, you might have to get out the the chair for a second, but you aren't likely to die (very bad!). Trying to defend with only mines is a lost cause, naturally, but like I said, marines are the only real defense.
ill always bump 3 year old threads