How big is too big

HerrSpitzvogel

<div class="IPBDescription">Size/design-related question</div>Ok, in general, I've been mapping (for 10 hours straight now, no work today, ugh) with the assumption that the movement speeds are more or less equivalent to the way they are in the NSTR2.

So, taking into account phase gates and relative movement speeds, how big is too big? I'm designing this as a 20-32 player map, so it's very large, and has a lot of different routes throughout, but some of them are a little too long I think.

What I'm asking, essentially, is "hey playtesters, how far are you willing to run before you say, '#### this map, man, my W finger is sore?'"

-Tom

JediYoshi

Hmm, I think it's mentioned about time in the  <a href="http://www.natural-selection.org/MappingGuidelines.htm" target="_blank">Mapping Guidelines</a>.

Carbon14

I think it was 30 secs to travel from hive to marine spawn. you should also take note that you can't get much bigger than maps like bast, simply because there are limits to the number of faces you can have in a map.

Black_Wolf

its not how big it is, its how you use it . . .

HanzGruber

Herr,

you'll find that most maps are roughly the size of the worldcraft grid. Sounds big, but when you take into account everything you have to put in an ns map - you'll be strugglin to squeeze it all in

HerrSpitzvogel

Heh, that's freakin' amazing. My map is currently about 1/3 of the WC grid on its rough layout and it seems too big. Guess I'll have to put more rooms in (so the long hallways don't seem so long) and add some rooms to the ventilation system.

Fortunately, I've got enough layout on paper to fill the whole WC grid, so it's not like I'm going to run out of ideas. =)

KungFuSquirrel

<!--QuoteBegin--HanzGruber+Oct. 25 2002,05:46--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (HanzGruber @ Oct. 25 2002,05:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->you'll find that most maps are roughly the size of the worldcraft grid. Sounds big, but when you take into account everything you have to put in an ns map - you'll be strugglin to squeeze it all in<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eclipse is one of the larger NS maps (I do think, at least) and takes up a little over half of the grid. If not for the protruding marine spawn at the top of the map I do believe I could fit <i>almost</i> all (exception probably being the core hive) of it in the top 2 quadrants.

CyonPro

A person could make a map that spans the entire WC grid, but give it a rather simple, loose layout, whereas another could make a map half the size of the WC grid, but very complex with lots of connections, nooks and crannies. To the player, both maps could seem equally "large".

That's just my view on the subject.

coil

Note:  maps aren't the size of the grid; rather, their complexity is such that they approach other engine limitations (maxplanes, clipnodes, maxents, etc).

Simple rule:  as a marine, you should have to walk ~25-30 seconds from the MS to any hive.  You should have to walk 30+ seconds from any hive to any other hive (again, as a marine); however, shortcuts through vents between the hives can be more direct (say, 15secs or so between two adjacent hives, run as an alien).

SentrySteve

Bast seems like a <i>very</i> massive map, however I bet it also has a good amount of landmarks.  I think 'too big' would be when you can no longer think of any landmarks to distinguish between rooms/areas or when the enginge is at its limits.

KungFuSquirrel

Bast has always seemed the smallest of the PT maps to me. I think a few others agree. Not sure which one actually is the largest or smallest, though.

ChromeAngel

Bast sometimes feels small, this is because it's nearly all unique and it is quite compact is some places.  I recall Relic posted a screenshot of Bast in WC some time back, it showed just how massive the refinary actually is.

I actually thought Eclipse was about average, with SS_Nothing being the biggest map.

Timing between hive rooms and the marine start is crucial, more important than just size

manah

<img src="http://planethalflife.com/manah/files/caged/caged_wc.jpg" border="0">

tommyd

i think caged is the biggest NS map... followed by nothing, nancy, then eclipse.

hera, bast (its actually not that big), and tanith are medium-small.

you dont have to take up the whole grid to get the feeling of a big map.  if you make certain room relatively big compared to others, or add extra view-only or off-map areas, you can create the illusion of a bigger complex (as bast does).

KungFuSquirrel

Hrmm, a lot of gaps in there, though. Eclipse is mostly wall of one room lines up with wall of the next design.

/me shrugs.