Who here is...
Umbrella_Master
Join Date: 2002-07-12 Member: 915Members
Join Date: 2002-07-12 Member: 915Members
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">Christian vs gaming?</div>Who here is a Christian AND a gamer? What is your opinion on the stance that if you are a Christian and view so called "evil" media that you are a lazy Christian and a hypocrite?
I AM a Christian and a gamer, and I am very opposed to this stance of Christians vs. Media. I believe it's totally possible to be a Christian AND play/watch violent media. To me, it depends on intent. Are you playing/watching it because of the enjoyment of watching someone die/have sex/etc etc or are you playing/watching it for the pure enjoyment and appreciation of someone else's work? Let me take Half-Life for instance. I play it for the enjoyment of the game, not because when I shoot someone they fall, groan, and blood flies everywhere. To me there is a line that should be drawn in one's mind...
So what do YOU guys think? This may be a little controversial, but thats why I posted it. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
I AM a Christian and a gamer, and I am very opposed to this stance of Christians vs. Media. I believe it's totally possible to be a Christian AND play/watch violent media. To me, it depends on intent. Are you playing/watching it because of the enjoyment of watching someone die/have sex/etc etc or are you playing/watching it for the pure enjoyment and appreciation of someone else's work? Let me take Half-Life for instance. I play it for the enjoyment of the game, not because when I shoot someone they fall, groan, and blood flies everywhere. To me there is a line that should be drawn in one's mind...
So what do YOU guys think? This may be a little controversial, but thats why I posted it. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Think about this: If Christians really shouldn't consume violent media, they wouldn't be allowed to read the Bible ('Killing everybodies first son', anyone?).
I'm Christian, although in no sense a very strict one, and if there's one thing I'm sure will not send me to hell, it's gaming.
It's not mutally exclusive.
Technically I'm a Catholic but I refuse to get Confirmed because I don't believe in nearly all the teachings that make them different from any other Christain religious denomination (homosexuality, capital punishment, no women priests, divorce, creation, transubstantiation(sp?), abortion)
I'm now just a Universalist which basically means I believe everyone goes to heaven(including Hitler and others of that nature).
So I guess I'm too liberal a Christian to really answer the question of why the media is "evil" and why gaming should be banned.
The chances are you aren't going to get anyone who is against the media and gaming on a gaming forum so this topic is going to be very one sided.
This whole religion thing has gone too far. It was nice back when it was needed to survive, and I have no trouble with people being devoted to a faith nowadays. But when you go and kill somebody over it, or stop something from happening just because somebody told you too, you are taking it too far. They should be guidlines for living your life, not for the whole of earth's population.
I think, religions are a good thing, i mean, all those old people, people in poor countrys and so, religion give them hope, but hey, wen some one kills in the name of religions, then something goes wrong. Not only muslims kill others, and only a little perrcent of them!! Whats with the catholic and the holy thing (you know jerusalem, i dont know the english name) how many died for something stupid like religion?
I think religion should be here to make people happy, give them power and so.... but when there are only rules, for what is it then?
OK, strange text that i wrote, but its realy hard to make a good text about something like that, specialy because im not very good in english. Very short, my opinion is, religions are something good for people that need it, but i dont believe in god, and i dont think that i miss something, i mean, you can be a good human, without believing in god, and when you are not alowed to play games because of your religion, then you should think about your live....
I don't need someone to tell me how to live my life. I follow my own light, which really is the only light there is.
Impress me people. Go for more. Or perhaps even no flames at all.
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On the subject at hand...
I'm a gamer. I was born and raised a Christian. The idea that media ruins morals is one that's been both proven and disproven a lot. I for one don't believe media makes anyone go 'bad' but that they start out bad in the first place, and that media just makes it so the person doesn't have to be imaginative when thinking of ways to be anti-human. Without the media, they'd just think up inventive ways of killing people, or whatever it is they're into.
viewpoint: strongly Christian
Whatever you follow, "follow it down to the ruddy end!" I think that was C.S. Lewis.
my knowledge of who said certain quotes is extremely hazy so bear with me.
One noted atheist philosopher said that you must base your life on utter and unending despair and build your meaning around that. That is, in the end everything is destroyed, there is no hope, and you create a purpose for yourself knowing full well that in the end it will be meaningless.
That is effectively the view of atheism as discerned by several intelligent atheists.
I'd go into more, but I must finish putting on my tuxedo and go play my tuba in University-Hall. Maybe I'll return later, if the thread isn't locked.
If god exists (and in my opinion all signs point to 'yes', although this doesn't give you a hint about <i>which</i> god that would be), (s)he has to have a damn good sense of humor - we're still alive, after all.
Media is offering us new contexts and situations to absorb. It is up to each person to decide how to use the knowledge. If anything is evil with respect to gaming, it is the lack of realization and support structure surrounding violent ideas that allows individuals to make poor decisions.
Does Christianity frown upon killing ants? Is this deed not greater than causing someone to respawn?
I know that many use gaming for what it is intended to be, entertainment and camraderie with like individuals. Shunning a problem will not make it disappear.
aside: was anyone else amused by merk's freudian slip of re'lie'gon?
I believe he said re 'lig' eon.
I believe that, and I believe in him. If you think that something as superficial as computer games can condemn you, then I urge you to actually pick up and read the bible, instead of listening to every word that the preachy zealots tell you.
I take offense when people compare Conservatism to Religious Zealots. The two are not intermingled. They are parallel at times, but not intertwined. Certain aspects of Conservatism can be compared to Puritanical values but one can and does exist without the other.
I have played all forms of video games. GTA3 ranks in the highest and I am firm in my Christian beliefs (but not really the beliefs of my particular religion). I think video games are perfectly okay. I thkn all people who think videogames make killers should have their rock albums taken away, because they make adulterers.
I take offense when people compare Conservatism to Religious Zealots. The two are not intermingled. They are parallel at times, but not intertwined. Certain aspects of Conservatism can be compared to Puritanical values but one can and does exist without the other.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, the NS Trailer finished DLing and it was the only thing that came to mind at the time.
Post edited.
I believe it was Legion who said to ignore the zealots and read the Bible for yourself. Last year I did just that, in a Bible study. I generally went in with an open mind, unsure of what I'd find. Well, I beleive in God, but I am FAR from Christian.
I cannot believe that an unconditional love should be feared, and yet that seems to be the two main emphasi. Nor can I beleive that unconditional love would judge.
So, basically I don't believe anything, let alone a video game, will be your eternal damnation.
(and Yes, He does have a sense of humor. She invented humor after all <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo--> )
It just seems... well I guess each to their own.
But alot of people have a point in that religion has a use, in this horrible world of ours its a very effective comfort blanket. We've all heard of people who couldnt have survived if it wasnt for their faith, who couldnt have coped under the stress they were under. That means religion has a place in society.
Unfortunately it is still the same old religion as it was thousands of years ago (and we havent evolved one bit since then) and so we still react to it in the same way. People seem to forget that evolution takes millions of years and presume that we are much better than those that came before us. We may know more but how often do we actually think when it comes to things important to us like family, religion and country. Simple, we dont and because of that we act like everyone did in the 'olden days' and kill people. Our society may have become more 'enlightened' but we havent, it just means we tend to repress what we feel more, it means we treat our feelings with disgust or, even worse, we patronise ourselves with Oprah style 'we must all love ourselves' rubbish.
Religion is a good thing as even if we got rid of it the disadvantages of it would still remain. We'd still fight, we'd just come up with another excuse.
Oh and we cant apply logic to religion and say 'well a God surely wouldnt care if we played computer games' because if a God did exist there is no possible way we could comprehend what he/she/it wanted. This whole computer game thing is an excuse for people to get all riled up and attack each other. Its a fairly clever excuse because they can win with violence and we cant fight back, we have to hope that common sense will prevail... and since when has common sense ever been used in religion?
What if I told you that there is a God who sees us (<b>me included</b>) as the sinners we are, and wants to have a <i>relationship</i> with us?
But He, being perfect, requires certain criteria for us to have that <i>relationship</i> with Him.
I don't need someone to tell me how to live my life. I follow my own light, which really is the only light there is.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what's interesting about what you said is that convening to create a "new religion" would be totally against the whole point of religion.
making a religion out of convienience totally upsets the idea that [insert religion name] is something that always existed.
Since I'm not religious I have started doing this. My religion, Pango-Jeelisko, requires me to wear hats in school. AND THEY PERSECUTE ME!
Also, it seems a common belief here is that anti-intellectualism is synonymous with religion. This is not so, as in my first post "Follow it through to the ruddy end!" Think it through!
The greatest poison of the modern age is its apathy. When we thought respectfullness we said and acted with tolerance. Tolerance is a condescending manner where one is assumed lower than the other. This tolerance slowly degraded into an apathy where one simply doesn't care what happens and where people go or what they do. Maybe they'll go get themselves killed for no reason, maybe not. Not a good position imho.
If a person wishes to think this through, they normally begin with observation. One such observation is that there is evil in this world. Another such observation is that there is also good and beauty. As another man I heard mentioned in a lecture once looked down and saw a small dandelion, and realized that there is greatness here as well as the aforementioned evil. So, one would think this requires a theory which covers both. One that accounts for both the good and the evil.
I already gave you the basis of atheism, now I'll go into a the family of eastern religions (not including islam, etc.). AFAIK the end of the path is the removal of all desire. This is because desire keeps you bound to the wheel and you're stuck here. In this you want to rejoin with a kind of oneness. Removing individuality. This works off a basis that the world is completely wrong.
So you have atheism and this eastern family of religions at opposite ends of the scale. Hold tight to the world because it's all you got and can be as good as you make it. And detach yourself from the world as much as you can because it's entirely wrong.
Then we move onto a third family, western religion plus islam (biblical). This is a moderate. Christians are told to be "in the world but not of it." You can't be too much into the world and still be not of it, nor can you detach yourself too much as you will be of little use to it.
Also, while the eastern family says the world is wrong, and atheism says the world came together by chance and what we've got is good but for the end, Biblical says, mainly by Christians, it should have been different. The world was created as good, but man fell and evil ran rampant.
In my opinion, as it seems to work out, this accounts for both the good and the evil.
I've written way too much at this point, probably given so much to talk on... I wish I could continue but probably should just watch where this goes for a bit.
If I insulted anyone, I truly apologize.
The point of a religion from my perspective is to help people along in life. It is the corruption of the individuals who are in power, within the religious community that cause problems, and not the individuals themselves. The individual followers may have many personal flaws, but im just saying this very superficially. It is like Hitler and his Nazi Germany. What makes Germany look bad then? was it his Nazis.. or him? I say both, which is correct. However, tracing back to the cause and effect rule, Hitler was the one who started it all, started the downhill slide of the German peoples' image.
I have learnt in my 16 pitiful years of existence that everyone judges things on the surface, no matter how much they know about that being -bad- or -wrong- and that we should all "look at the content of the book and not judge by its covers" .I judge many many things just by its looks, too. The point im trying to make is that even if Some fatass ##### over-zealous "zug zug" man in robes or what-have-you material says that Digital Games are bad and they make killers and promote violence, i just have my middle finger to do the talking for me. In fact, im kinda happy he/she said those words. Goes to show how ignorant he/she is:
1] He/she has NEVER played digital games. if you have, then you wouldnt be saying such things.
2]he/she preaches about religion and its teachings such as non-ignorance and tolerance. So why are you slamminig digital games now? HUH!
3]He/she has the same brain-cell count as an amoeba... You obviously preach about a religion for the love of it, not for the money... as such, he might as well be a human bomb if his "superiors" so much as tell him to do so. It has been that way throughout history. Some person named Joan or anyone else goes "i heard in my dream that God told me to fight! Check it out man, i got this cool sword too!" and the entire castle/village/town/state gets sooo overwhelmed they follow her into battle, throwing their lives away so recklessly, just for what they THINK they believe in.
In the end, you can say they believed in God. I say Joan had a bad time in bed with her boyfriend, he didnt please her as usual and as the psychotic ##### she was, she decided that since she was some sort of person with royal blood, she makes a story up, and sends those peasants, whom have sworn their lives to her and her cause... stragith to hell.
-No offence to the legend of Joan of the Arc intended, my story was made up, as an Example-
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My biological mom is Christian after she remarried, my biological dad and i arent. My step-sibling and her dad are chrstian. All this mess of a divorce and a new relationship has not spelled misery for us (not much anyway.) My dad sometimes meets my step-dad in a bar and they socialise.
A non-christian (u mught think he is an un-guided heartless fool, but he is not!He is kind, loving and gentle, he never shoots his mouth off and he will sit down and have an intelligent conversation.) speaking to a chrstian (u think he is guided, but he is not. He is a violent person. He has bad tempermant and lousy anger control.)
So pls enlighten me about the TEACHINGS of religion. I am atheist. I FEEL AND BELIEVE that since there is no proof of any "superior being's" existence, that there is a point to make and a religion to follow. The religion of atheism which believes tha no god exists. Since no god exists, does not make us mindless murderers or rapers or what have you. The POINT im trying to MAKE ladies and gentlemen, happen to stem from my childhood itself.
ill make this short:
As long as a PERSON, and indiviual, sees his world and the people around him in a respectful manner, with tolerance and dignity, and have a sense of integrity. Little can go wrong in our society. Sad to say, our f%$#ing society is so filled with ######### and people like those i stated above, that this Earth has become a stinky place.It doesnt REEK yet, but it sure stinks. Religion: GO AHEAD AND FOLLOW ONE. I hope it brings you good nature and great teachings, and i hope we become great friends, and make this world a better place by going out to work, and keeping our countries' economies afloat. I have many religious friends that i love and are so open-minded at the same time. I love that.
This world does not need teachings to go by, or religions to follow. This world just needs good people. People who can think, and can repect each other. Once u know YOUR DAMN PLACE and ACCEPT it (cause none of us make a damn difference even if we died, cause we are all just tiny choclate chips in a cookie jar.)like i have, then it will all be pleasant.
I am full of wrong, but at the same time right, it is this balance that keeps the world going. I just hope that i maintain this balance.
Thanks for reading
edit: after finishing, I definately disagree. I am Christian, not atheist. And I don't know many real Christians that have bad tempers...
You probably agree with the statement I made about thinking it through. That's good. Just please reread my post and re-evaluate your relative position to mine.
Gwahir, I agree that tolerance is condescending but that is natural. Humans automatically see themselves as better or worse than those who are different (usually better). Its part of human nature. Tolerance is about overcoming human nature (as is religion actually).
Oh and if God created the universe and is omniscient then he would know that the humans he created would 'fall' so he indirectly created evil. Evil has always been a problem with the stereotypical idea of God.
Uki, you say that the world just needs good people, thats all fine and dandy but you do realise they dont exist without things like religion etc. Humans are by nature nasty horrible things that are just out for themselves. Luckily our saving grace is our gullibility. We fool ourselves into thinking humans are something else. We then treat our instincts as abberations so that we fit into society better. We give ourselves rules to follow so that we can be like everyone else.
I believe myself to be a good person. I dont lie, I don't swear in any major way (no F, C or S words). I try not to hurt anyone and help as much as I can. That means Ive been brainwashed successfully. I know that I am totally capable of random violence, I know inside me is every horrible act that any human has ever commited and all it takes is the right circumstance to bring it out of me. Its the same for everyone, its part of human nature, its how we were built. We're no different to any of the people who are held up in society as evil as we feel the same emotions, the difference is we dont act on it and we've been trained not to do that.
Religion is a very poweful tool to control people, it is the ultimate punishment. Without it people would be a hell of a lot worse. Im an athiest but I have been brought up in a christian way. I dont know if anyone exists that hasnt been brought up without some religious influences, we could abolish christianity and tear down every church but we'd still have a society based on the 10 commandments, on the founding principles of that religion. Every religion is the same.
I disagree with UkiTakuMuki when he says that all we need is "good" people...How do you define what is "good"? Someones definition maybe vastly different to you. Where do we draw the line on what is bad and what is good? Is killing in self-defence "good" or "bad"? Howabout fighting in war? You can't rely on people's common sense to define the moral boundaries we live by. That is why we need some form of set moral boundaries we all must follow....