Leaf Portals Are Fixed By Func_wall?

Zoc

Hello <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Many time without posts of mine, right? lol

here my HLVIS results:

<!--QuoteBegin-HLVis+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HLVis)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->hlvis v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.7p12 (Oct  7 2003)
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (webmaster@xp-cagey.com)
-----  BEGIN  hlvis -----
Command line: "D:\Arquivos de programas\Valve Hammer Editor\tools\hlvis.exe"-full -chart E:\Felipe\co_duel\co_duel.map
1051 portalleafs
3121 numportals

-= Current hlvis Settings =-
Name              |  Setting  |  Default
-------------------|-----------|-------------------------
threads            [      1 ] [  Varies ]
verbose            [    off ] [    off ]
log                [      on ] [      on ]
developer          [      0 ] [      0 ]
chart              [      on ] [    off ]
estimate            [    off ] [    off ]
max texture memory  [ 4194304 ] [ 4194304 ]
max vis distance    [      0 ] [      0 ]
priority            [  Normal ] [  Normal ]

fast vis            [    off ] [    off ]
full vis            [      on ] [    off ]


BasePortalVis:
(25.00 seconds)
LeafThread:
(65.03 seconds)
Warning: Leaf portals saw into leaf
    Problem at portal between leaves 720 and 702:
      (-24.000 -2569.760 -860.000)
    (-67.500 -2528.000 -860.000)
    (-67.500 -2528.000 -888.000)
    (-65.001 -2530.399 -888.000)
    (-24.000 -2569.760 -886.794)

average leafs visible: 115
g_visdatasize:36941  compressed from 138732

Object names  Objects/Maxobjs  Memory / Maxmem  Fullness
------------  ---------------  ---------------  --------
models            195/400        12480/25600    (48.8%)
planes          13486/65535    269720/1310700  (20.6%)
vertexes        10730/65535    128760/786420  (16.4%)
nodes            3955/32767      94920/786408  (12.1%)
texinfos        1313/32767      52520/1310680  ( 4.0%)
faces            7788/65535    155760/1310700  (11.9%)
clipnodes      10188/32767      81504/262136  (31.1%)
leaves          2748/8192      76944/229376  (33.5%)
marksurfaces    9441/65535      18882/131070  (14.4%)
surfedges      35830/512000    143320/2048000  ( 7.0%)
edges          18648/256000    74592/1024000  ( 7.3%)
texdata          [variable]      8632/4194304  ( 0.2%)
lightdata        [variable]          0/6291456  ( 0.0%)
visdata          [variable]      36941/2097152  ( 1.8%)
entdata          [variable]      56359/524288  (10.7%)
95 textures referenced
=== Total BSP file data space used: 1211334 bytes ===
90.14 seconds elapsed [1m 30s]

-----  END  hlvis -----<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I can't beat that leaf portal...

and I have two questions...

1st) If I set the problematic "block" that is crating that leaf portal to func_wall, will the problem be fixed? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

2nd) Last compile, I've changed many pipes ("cylinders" with an octagon as base) to func_wall... the compile time amazely decreased in about 60% - Great - but this will decrease the game performance? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Soylent_green

Func_walls don't split your leafs into more pieces so it might help. It will make server performance worse if you have too many entities but it's worth it in many cases. Func_walls don't split up walls in many pieces either(use gl_wireframe 1 and let a pipe touch a flat wall and another one func_wall and you'll see the mess it makes), this would be good for client performance.

Reebdoog

I have a room that causes leaf errors, cagey's talked about it so i won't go into it, but making func_walls didn't help me with my errors, but they can help. What can also help is changing geometry or the like.

Kouji_San

I get these to if I go over the detail limit the engine can handle I think and they are somehow easy to fix, or at least I think so <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Let me explain how I find them and then fix them.

<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->? ? Problem at portal between leaves 720 and 702:
? ? ? (-24.000 -2569.760 -860.000)
? ? (-67.500 -2528.000 -860.000)
? ? (-67.500 -2528.000 -888.000)
? ? (-65.001 -2530.399 -888.000)
? ? (-24.000 -2569.760 -886.794)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

(-24.000 -2569.760 -860.000) is the location of the problem. Along with the others but look carefull they are almost the same so we're going to use the first, these are as follows the x y z coordinates of the problem.
Go and hover with your cursor in the top view. you'll notice in the bottom "right" of your screen some numbers changing while you move the cursor. Now move the cursor to the location x and y to the locations -24 and -2528. you can do the same on the 3rd number (the z value) in one of the side windows.

Now you know the location of the leaf portal error.

<span style='color:purple'>solutions:</span><ul><li>check for any architecture with maybe a NULL texture on it which allows it to view into itself and replace it with any texture scaled up to x=255 y=255 so it wont add to the r_speeds <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
if your lucky this would fix your problem. </li><li>if not you have an over detailed area which is visible from another overdetailed area. in this case you can use HINT/skip brushes to fix it.

The hint brushes can be placed in any hallway near the error to cut some leafportals in more pieces. Just make a one grid thick brush and scale it up so theres 1 grid between it and the walls/ceiling/floor and texture 1 face in HINT and the rest in SKIP.</li></ul>if this does not fix it try adding more hint/skip brushes, it won't do any harm to your map (well I never encountered problems/higher r_speeds) since it will help VIS to calcuate.

hope this solves your problem (it always helps me get rid of them leaf portal errors...

brute_force

<!--QuoteBegin-Kouji San+May 10 2004, 03:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kouji San @ May 10 2004, 03:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <span style='color:purple'>solutions:</span><ul><li>check for any architecture with maybe a NULL texture on it which allows it to view into itself and replace it with any texture scaled up to x=255 y=255 so it wont add to the r_speeds <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
if your lucky this would fix your problem. </li><li>if not you have an over detailed area which is visible from another overdetailed area. in this case you can use HINT/skip brushes to fix it.

The hint brushes can be placed in any hallway near the error to cut some leafportals in more pieces. Just make a one grid thick brush and scale it up so theres 1 grid between it and the walls/ceiling/floor and texture 1 face in HINT and the rest in SKIP.</li></ul>if this does not fix it try adding more hint/skip brushes, it won't do any harm to your map (well I never encountered problems/higher r_speeds) since it will help VIS to calcuate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, that face will still be rendered, and I don't think it would help much to replace the texture. Leaf portal saw into leaf errors can usually be ignored if there's just one of them (if you don't notice anything in your map you should be fine). These errors are usually due to floors that aren't flat enough (which makes it harder for vis). And yes, sometimes HINT brushes can help, however, remember that improper use of HINT brushes can *raise* your r_speeds, so be careful.

Anyway, if you haven't run VIS on -full yet, try that as well.

Zoc

I'm always doing -Full VIS
to prevent these errors... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Here is a screenshot from the area that is affected...
Don't know what's wrong there

I've already removed 2 "45 degrees rotated crates"from there, but the problem continue, don't know really whats wrong in there...

tips? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

EDIT: The Screenshot is from a Top-Down View

Kouji_San

are you able to get undeneath the boxes trough that passage towards the lower floor? (assuming its co)

Still it wouldn't hurt to put a hint brush at the bottom witht the hint textured face facing towards the shaft which goes to the level with the boxes

This maybe even fix your problem.

Ollj

try the following:

- Create a Cilyndric solid brush that, when you look straight down to it, has the same shape as your problematic (too complex) brush. (imagine your brush has been flatened, and then stretched to a cylinder)
- Cover this cylinder with the HINT texture and place it over the problematic brush. The brush should fit perfectly into the cylinder. HINT brushes wont be visible after compiling. It just changes the leaf portals.
- Do not let this cylinder touch the ground or ceeling, keep it small, cut it short, keep it out off eye-height if possible, if not performance goes down, but not as much as func_walls.

(it does not need to be a cylinder, a simple cube might be enough. But a cylinder of the same z-shape has a better chance for fixing the leaf portal saw into leaf.)

----

To just "see" the leaf portal saw into leaf" ingame do this:

A leaf portal is an invisible face in your map, that blocks your sight when you cant see it from your location.
thoose are given x-y-z coordinates of your leaf portal
(-24.000 -2569.760 -860.000)
(-67.500 -2528.000 -860.000)
(-67.500 -2528.000 -888.000)
(-65.001 -2530.399 -888.000)
(-24.000 -2569.760 -886.794)
its the 5 corner points of an invisible 5 sided face somewere in your map that will show a hall of mirrors.
So the "face" is somewere at (-60 -2500 -870)
walk around in your compiled map looking at (or better THROUGHT) this location untill you see a hall of mirror there. It might only be visible from one tiny spot (somewere in the air), but thats rare. It might be really small itself, you wont even notice, onos sized leaf portals saw into leafes are damn rare.
If you cant fint it, propably noone else will, and its damage to the map is minimal. almost every NS map has tons of halls of mirrors.
If you can find it you can proudly say "hah there it is" but it ont help you much fixing it.
There is a developer command to show your xyz position ingame, but i forgot.

Zoc

Fixed it =)

I used some retangles, to divide the lower level and those 3 boxes in the image...

The unique problem is: the HINT texture is touching the ground.. do this decrease too much the performance ?

btw, if you remember the command, please, post it here =D

Thanks <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Ollj

In developer mode try "gl_wireframe 2" (or "gl_wireframe 1") (in opengl mode only) and you see lines all over your textures.
Thoose lines are borders of leaf portals (visible were they hit a wall, but they are invisible all over the room).
With the HINT texture you can force thoose "lines" were ever you want.

Thoose lines split up all the textures into smaller pieces (= W-poly`s).
This affects the flashlight in bad ways most times, you see it breaking up along thoose lines.
In general it makes your r-speeds higher in big rooms, since each texture piece you see is one W-poly.

Around corners it can make your r_speeds lower because you can not see around corners soo far then.
Thats why intelligent usage of HINT brushes around corners increases R-Speed by lowering W-polys.

Zoc

Ok, I've fixed the Leaf Portals problem on my map..

usually, when I got leaf portals, there was a wall that was "transpassable" by players..

now, I got rid of these Leaft Portals, but the wall seems to be transpassable by Fades, Onos and Marines...

Someone got this problem too? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
don't have any idea how to fix that... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Ollj

got xpcageys compile tools and tried "-cliptype precise" or other "-cliptype"
read for that in xp-cageys webbed thread.

The ns engine uses 4 "hulls", one shows whats visible and 3 "clipping hulls" set were 3 different sized players can move; (crouching, human, onos).
By creating the clipping hulls sometimes errors happen with that old engine.
xp-cageys compile tools are way more intelligent in creating clipping hulls.

when xp-tools do not help, report it to him as a bug.
In 1.04 (before everyone used xp-tools) every second official map had well known places were clipping went wrong and you could move out of the map.
To be on the save side use CLIP brushes. Thoose will create invisible walls, you can just shoot trough, build and walk on, but not in.
They wont affect anything else in the map but blocking movement.

Zoc

Already using "precise" cliptype... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

What I need to do ?

create a retangle, with 1 side as clip and every other side as skip, and put there this problem is happening?

btw, any problem using this as "Coincident" ? Like, placing *exacly* in the same place as the brush that is having those problems? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

EDIT: Discovered that I need to put CLIP on all sides of the brush
but, any problem If I put them "Coincident" ? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->