devicenullJoin Date: 2003-04-30Member: 15967Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--QuoteBegin--={CMF}=-TheKarateKid+May 19 2004, 07:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-={CMF}=-TheKarateKid @ May 19 2004, 07:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Personally, I liked the lerk spikes, it gave the aliens a ranged attack, thre aren't very decent ranged attacks anymore, perhaps having this as an "upgradable" option for a second hive (perhaps causing 10 res itself) or maybe even eliminating bite or another attack in response, like primal scream for an instance, it is very much useful, but how often do you get to use it. It has actaully saved me a few times, but spikes saved me many times aswell. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Bringing back spikes, and getting rid of PS is a GOOD idea.. but spikes would need to be hive 1 (or maybe have the lerk have two hive 0 weapons, spike/bite?)
I also like removing marine RFK, (prevents spwancamping, theres no point) Free upgrades with chambers costing 15 is good
Cloak also needs to be un-nerfed, at the current moment, its pretty much worthless.. it takes too long to re-cloak after an attack Its very hard to do more then one ambush in a row with cloak (And yes, the marines will run through the same area with out scanning)
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+May 19 2004, 10:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ May 19 2004, 10:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Problem is that this would basically force the commander to either invest gratious amounts of res into giving different weapons to the marines in late game, or to go for other strategies (sieges, for example), that basically leave the marines out, thus boring almost half of a server to death... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A 2 hour stand off is increadably fun or at least it was in 2.0 if i remember.
Still having played since the public realease, NS has been everywhere, back, there and here all over again. Its part of the fun, oneday youl update and it will be perfectly balanced and you will gasp in awe then find something to complain about.
Still does it matter that its slightly off, as long as neither side has a clear advantage im not botherd.
people will always find something to complain about.
my 2 cents?
leave it as is. so what if it takes 3 bites? i can take any rine with a head on charge. you know you CAN bounce off walls, bunnyhop, lots of things to charge a rine down. altho,there is one thing that will win *any* game.
a smidgin of teamwork.
any game flows better with teamwork. and *dont* say pubbies dont have it. ive only recently gotten into the clan circuit, ive been playing pubbies since i began ns a year and a half ago. ive seen some of the best and (more often than not) worst teamwork on pub servers. you can get a real sence of commaradory(sp?) with the guy beside you when you been fighting for the last 2 hours.
game kicks ****, hope it will only get better as time wears on.
altho there is one thing i want fixed. THAT DAMNED CRASH BUG IN LOST. FIX IT FOR CHRIST'S SAKE.
You're still missing the point. Alien have to work together more than marines now. It should be the other way around. Not that aliens shouldn't need to work together at all, but that one marine=one skulk. And while aliens still win half the time, that is because of the fades, not the skulks. Early game sucks as an alien.
hmm... for a couple of days i've been playing only as a gorge. and it sucks. especially in the start. if you have teams of 8-9 players (read: your usual pub game), the alien res is horribly slow. you will need half of your team to be gorges just to maintain a solid economy. and if the marines have any sense they will wipe out the skulks. because if marine > skulk, then how about 8 marines against 5 skulks?
and for the love of god at least don't increase the chamber costs... christ, where do these people come from??? i say make them cost LESS. perhaps, 7 res/chamber. and upgrades 1 res. either that, or buff the oc. buff it big time. and buff carapace. and celerity. and... everything. except regen and focus maybe.
ps: aliens need more types of chambers and defense mechanisms... but that has been suggested before, and i cant be bothered to look in the I&S.
Personally, I basically think we should take a step back pretty much revert back to 1.04, bar some of the addedfunctions like the new lerkflight mechanism.
Main reason for this being (just from what ive picked up from this thread) I dont think anyones 'that' happy with the current build of ns at the moment, and it seems that with every new build ns is digging its own grave deeper and deeper...
combat is just poor and everything ns shouldnt be, and many people from cs or whatever are just trying combat and leaving, and basically I think its safe to say that flayra has with the most recent builds being just selling out 'ns' to mass counterstrike appeal, instead of the old 1.04 'gentlemans club' feel -perhaps just so he can get himself some investment into his game company- I fail to see how he can let ns slip this much without just plain not caring.
Since 1.04 I also feel that there might have been an influx of cs type players just wanting to make ns into cs with aliens and marines tbh...just look at the suggestions thread- some guy wanted to completely change the aliens chambers so that they could get upgrades like out of combat which is really just missing the point of making team decisions.
sorry if anyone considers this a flame/rant because its not, its just the current affairs of the game imo.
pvt.pete you are right. NS 1.04 was alot more fun. No other build could compete with 1.04 (Yes i now JP Rush is Crap but on many server they where used rarely because it was lame). I must say that i already lost the fun in playing NS. i tryed it the last days but it doesnt feel right and makes no fun.
Most time i play Alien and usually i win (I am very expierenced <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) but it makes now fun !!!!!!!
I think it is time to go some steps back to come forward.
the only problem i see is the huge gap between skulk and fade.
skulk < rine
playing against good rines is a pain in the **** as a skulk. its just too weak and you cannot rely on ambushs all the time. this leads to a dominating marine team in the beginning. (definately not fun most of the time)
rine < fade
same applies to fades, only the other way round. good fades easiely dominate a marine team. this can be very frustrating as a rine.
solution: buff the skulk and nerf the fade, while making it cheaper.
its just not right that aliens seem to loose during the game and win in the end because of the higher lifeforms. most of the alien team will experience the game as a permanently dying skulk fighting against superior firepower. fades should be nerfed, made cheaper and then go hunting in groups. teamwork on the alien side is negated through diffrent movement speed of the lifeforms. just think about it... is a pack of cheaper fades that unrealistic?
Steg you have clearly missed something, which you would see if you started playing pcws...
But sure, you're right, as long there's only skulks attacking. A fade, lerk or onos would kill the guy easy as hell. The object of the game tends to be to hold as many rts in the beginning before they get fades.
I just think players have gotten much better over their course of ns playing, and it's really starting to show. That or H4X IT'S ALWAYS H4X!!! But, seriously, combat has caused this partially. All the players that go marines every time are getting better, because they are constantly engaging the enemy hence the name "Combat". During a regular NS game, some people just don't know where to go, what to do, etc, so they rarely encounter a skulk more than a few times, and then it's fades lerks.... etc. In combat you can usually practice on skulks for a good 5 minutes before assorted other lifeforms start to regulary get in your way.
That and theres the good people that play NS constantly. They know the most common hiding places, the places where skulks show up first from each hive, and just generally own marines. I mean, it's just plain easy to be a marine. It's a fact.
That being said, I think the game is the same it's always been, only difference is now that many NS players can finally aim their weapon, they don't need to pool their aim a.k.a "Teamwork" as much. Aliens can't just independently dominate marines anymore because they don't all always suck like they used to. Now that most of the time, one marine is as good as a team of two, skulks will just have to learn how to play against marines that have good aim, it's that simple.
this is why you guys should try organized teamplay
surprisingly enough, aliens actually take a good portion of the wins in clanplay - counter to what is shown in pubs.
anyhow, public servers are rubbish for attempting to evaluate the game as a whole. there's a host of mitigating factors and uncontrollable variables to make any assumptions derived from public play.
<!--QuoteBegin-todd10000+May 19 2004, 08:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (todd10000 @ May 19 2004, 08:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> leave it as is. so what if it takes 3 bites? i can take any rine with a head on charge. you know you CAN bounce off walls, bunnyhop, lots of things to charge a rine down. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Care to back up that statement? I highly doubt you could charge head on against a good marine. Unless of course, you're the best bullet dodger NS has ever seen.
It probably is as simple as marines having a comm and aliens having nothing to "lead" them. I mean sure, in leagueplay everyone knows what they are doing so all goes well. In public play a good comm can take an ok marine that knows the maps and put them to use. For an alien it''s not that simple, they may not know what to do and where to do it at. Plus, the comm adds that unity between the marine team, I noticed quite a few alien teams in pubs don't really talk to each other much, this results in less organization and puts pressure on the "vets" (if you want to call them that) to pick up the slack and do most of the work.
Honestly, it seems odd to me for a species that is so connected to behave this way. It just seems pretty clear that when one side has a designated leader and the other does not that there may be problems that arise, at least in public servers.
The idea is pretty out there but what if aliens had someone jump in the "hive chair" or something of the sort? Even if all they did was guide the team over voice communication it would make alien teams organized in public play. How that would be implemented I don't know, still, it would mean that every alien wouldn't have to be very well versed in the game.
Perhaps...but personally I like the two very different styles of play, and public play 'USED' to be very organised in 1.04 :/-although it differed from server to server personally.
imo.. in an ideal world the ns team should roll back normal ns to basically 1.04 (the vintage version) so all the pub servers can have people that are having fun, meenwhile the people who just complain about everything (im not implying you or anything <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->) aka the clan players etc, could have the tournament mode as a seperate gametype and have the current rule set which they seem so pleased at which has actually imo anyway compleetly nerfed ns with cs players that are all;
"WOOOOT", "HAX", "CHEATER!" and so on and so forth, with even more begginer bashing than before imo at least.
and tbh i think it might be good for the infantiles to have their own little 'play pool'/'sandbox' aka tournament mode to fuss with rather than dragging the whole game down :/
it also seems a bit wierd to me that people seem to be fundamentally suggesting veryyy wierd and absurd new ideas, to solve problems which were alllready solved in 1.04 or werent even there.
Comments
Bringing back spikes, and getting rid of PS is a GOOD idea.. but spikes would need to be hive 1 (or maybe have the lerk have two hive 0 weapons, spike/bite?)
I also like removing marine RFK, (prevents spwancamping, theres no point)
Free upgrades with chambers costing 15 is good
Cloak also needs to be un-nerfed, at the current moment, its pretty much worthless.. it takes too long to re-cloak after an attack
Its very hard to do more then one ambush in a row with cloak (And yes, the marines will run through the same area with out scanning)
A 2 hour stand off is increadably fun or at least it was in 2.0 if i remember.
Still having played since the public realease, NS has been everywhere, back, there and here all over again. Its part of the fun, oneday youl update and it will be perfectly balanced and you will gasp in awe then find something to complain about.
Still does it matter that its slightly off, as long as neither side has a clear advantage im not botherd.
people will always find something to complain about.
my 2 cents?
leave it as is. so what if it takes 3 bites? i can take any rine with a head on charge. you know you CAN bounce off walls, bunnyhop, lots of things to charge a rine down. altho,there is one thing that will win *any* game.
a smidgin of teamwork.
any game flows better with teamwork. and *dont* say pubbies dont have it. ive only recently gotten into the clan circuit, ive been playing pubbies since i began ns a year and a half ago. ive seen some of the best and (more often than not) worst teamwork on pub servers. you can get a real sence of commaradory(sp?) with the guy beside you when you been fighting for the last 2 hours.
game kicks ****, hope it will only get better as time wears on.
altho there is one thing i want fixed. THAT DAMNED CRASH BUG IN LOST. FIX IT FOR CHRIST'S SAKE.
Alien have to work together more than marines now. It should be the other way around.
Not that aliens shouldn't need to work together at all, but that one marine=one skulk. And while aliens still win half the time, that is because of the fades, not the skulks. Early game sucks as an alien.
It's just the opposite -just try getting 4 bites in before getting gunned down by a sg/hmg/gl/ûber. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
and for the love of god at least don't increase the chamber costs... christ, where do these people come from??? i say make them cost LESS. perhaps, 7 res/chamber. and upgrades 1 res. either that, or buff the oc. buff it big time. and buff carapace. and celerity. and... everything. except regen and focus maybe.
ps: aliens need more types of chambers and defense mechanisms... but that has been suggested before, and i cant be bothered to look in the I&S.
Main reason for this being (just from what ive picked up from this thread) I dont think anyones 'that' happy with the current build of ns at the moment, and it seems that with every new build ns is digging its own grave deeper and deeper...
combat is just poor and everything ns shouldnt be, and many people from cs or whatever are just trying combat and leaving, and basically I think its safe to say that flayra has with the most recent builds being just selling out 'ns' to mass counterstrike appeal, instead of the old 1.04 'gentlemans club' feel -perhaps just so he can get himself some investment into his game company- I fail to see how he can let ns slip this much without just plain not caring.
Since 1.04 I also feel that there might have been an influx of cs type players just wanting to make ns into cs with aliens and marines tbh...just look at the suggestions thread- some guy wanted to completely change the aliens chambers so that they could get upgrades like out of combat which is really just missing the point of making team decisions.
sorry if anyone considers this a flame/rant because its not, its just the current affairs of the game imo.
Most time i play Alien and usually i win (I am very expierenced <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) but it makes now fun !!!!!!!
I think it is time to go some steps back to come forward.
skulk < rine
playing against good rines is a pain in the **** as a skulk. its just too weak and you cannot rely on ambushs all the time. this leads to a dominating marine team in the beginning. (definately not fun most of the time)
rine < fade
same applies to fades, only the other way round. good fades easiely dominate a marine team. this can be very frustrating as a rine.
solution:
buff the skulk and nerf the fade, while making it cheaper.
its just not right that aliens seem to loose during the game and win in the end because of the higher lifeforms. most of the alien team will experience the game as a permanently dying skulk fighting against superior firepower. fades should be nerfed, made cheaper and then go hunting in groups. teamwork on the alien side is negated through diffrent movement speed of the lifeforms. just think about it... is a pack of cheaper fades that unrealistic?
But sure, you're right, as long there's only skulks attacking. A fade, lerk or onos would kill the guy easy as hell. The object of the game tends to be to hold as many rts in the beginning before they get fades.
That and theres the good people that play NS constantly. They know the most common hiding places, the places where skulks show up first from each hive, and just generally own marines. I mean, it's just plain easy to be a marine. It's a fact.
That being said, I think the game is the same it's always been, only difference is now that many NS players can finally aim their weapon, they don't need to pool their aim a.k.a "Teamwork" as much. Aliens can't just independently dominate marines anymore because they don't all always suck like they used to. Now that most of the time, one marine is as good as a team of two, skulks will just have to learn how to play against marines that have good aim, it's that simple.
surprisingly enough, aliens actually take a good portion of the wins in clanplay - counter to what is shown in pubs.
anyhow, public servers are rubbish for attempting to evaluate the game as a whole. there's a host of mitigating factors and uncontrollable variables to make any assumptions derived from public play.
TEAMWORK GUYS!!!!
Care to back up that statement? I highly doubt you could charge head on against a good marine. Unless of course, you're the best bullet dodger NS has ever seen.
Honestly, it seems odd to me for a species that is so connected to behave this way. It just seems pretty clear that when one side has a designated leader and the other does not that there may be problems that arise, at least in public servers.
The idea is pretty out there but what if aliens had someone jump in the "hive chair" or something of the sort? Even if all they did was guide the team over voice communication it would make alien teams organized in public play. How that would be implemented I don't know, still, it would mean that every alien wouldn't have to be very well versed in the game.
imo.. in an ideal world the ns team should roll back normal ns to basically 1.04 (the vintage version) so all the pub servers can have people that are having fun, meenwhile the people who just complain about everything (im not implying you or anything <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->) aka the clan players etc, could have the tournament mode as a seperate gametype and have the current rule set which they seem so pleased at which has actually imo anyway compleetly nerfed ns with cs players that are all;
"WOOOOT", "HAX", "CHEATER!" and so on and so forth, with even more begginer bashing than before imo at least.
and tbh i think it might be good for the infantiles to have their own little 'play pool'/'sandbox' aka tournament mode to fuss with rather than dragging the whole game down :/
it also seems a bit wierd to me that people seem to be fundamentally suggesting veryyy wierd and absurd new ideas, to solve problems which were alllready solved in 1.04 or werent even there.