Aweful Fps With Radeon 9800 Pro - Help?
SaltzBad
Join Date: 2004-02-23 Member: 26833Members
Join Date: 2004-02-23 Member: 26833Members
in Tech Support
Well, my Radeon 9800 Pro is at least working without crashing constantly now (was a overheating problem I think, so I'm running the powersupply outside the casing now and its working fine). Yay. I'm using 4.4 Catalysts, Win98 SE and a AMD 2000 Thoroughbread. The problem? Whenever I go near marine structures or stuff in NS, I seem to get horribly low FPS.
Comments
I was playing a custom map, for which I didn't have the minimap sprite. So my CPU was wasting a bunch of cycles looking for this minimap, causing the lag to get really bad. When something appeared on-screen, it may have complicated something in between the CPU and my card (ATI Radeon 9600XT), making things even worse. When I looked in the console, I saw nothing but twenty lines of the same error saying that it couldn't find the sprite.
1. GET RID OF WIN9X
2. Make sure you have the latest motherboard drivers. If you have one with a via chipset (like via kt266a, kt266, kt400, kt33, kt400a, etc...) then get the via drivers at viaarena.com. If you have an nvidia based card, get the nvidia nforce drivers at nvidia.com. These are THE MOST IMPORTANT DRIVERS IN A WIN9X COMPUTER, WITHOUT THEM YOUR COMP WILL RUN AT LIKE 15% OF WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO.
3. Get the 4.5's that just came out or the 4.5 beta's for your 9800.
That should do it, if you need help PLEASE post here or something. Do that, report back, or if yoiu have more questions like what mobo is yours etc.. please just ask. You will gain tons of performance after you do what i told you.
They seem to have a problem coping with the HL engine.
I suggest trying a different mod, or just original HL, - see what your frame-rate is like there.
A mate had this problem ('Shockwave' - I'm pretty sure he haunts these forums), and the only way he got it around it was by buying a new PC...
On the bright side, if we ever get to see HL2 your frame-rate will be much better <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
-=]BCK[=- Seraph
However, I did get a lot of help from www.steampowered.com and if you search for posts by member name [Zen]Shockwave you'll find a thread called 'A request for acknowledgement' - Beware, it's 10 pages long.
Incidentally, as a Techy guy myself, if you have a ViA chipset I'd probably reccomend throwing the PC away now and starting again. I've had one, they're awful, cheap & nasty. A decent nforce based one will set you back £50, and upgrade it by 100%.
Next, dump 98SE. There's a reason even MS don't acknowledge it anymore <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you can't, format. This may seem drastic, but I'm not kidding. It seems ATi cards do <b>not like</b> old drivers for other cards, EVEN after Detonator Destroyer or other driver removal tools. Sadly, I got a 25fps jump after a format, and drivers stopped playing up as a result.
Lastly.... Why isn't this in the <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/index.php?showforum=18' target='_blank'>Technical Support</a> forum? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Regards,
Shockwave
3.6 catalysts work much better for me, absolutely no stuttering whatsoever in half-life.
I'll try reinstalling windows soon (I'm guessing that'll be as good as a format, after /deltree windows). Sigh.
get back and comm saltz!
anyways, its kind of a shame that ati cards generally perform poorer in opengl mode than d3d (do a search on google if you dont believe me)
even my comp drops down to 30-40 fps on this computer without any AA or AF or Truform <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
for those interested by "this computer" i mean
2.8ghz HT 800mhz FSB 1MB L2 Prescott
512mb Dual DDR 400
Radeon 9800 Pro
120G SATA
hope you fix your problem soon saltz
EDIT: Saltz, if you're going to format, install win2k or xp or something. Much better IMO
They seem to have a problem coping with the HL engine.
I suggest trying a different mod, or just original HL, - see what your frame-rate is like there.
A mate had this problem ('Shockwave' - I'm pretty sure he haunts these forums), and the only way he got it around it was by buying a new PC...
On the bright side, if we ever get to see HL2 your frame-rate will be much better <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
-=]BCK[=- Seraph <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
excuse me, but you sir are a **** <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> Please stop pulling @#$% our of your @#$...
get back and comm saltz!
anyways, its kind of a shame that ati cards generally perform poorer in opengl mode than d3d (do a search on google if you dont believe me)
even my comp drops down to 30-40 fps on this computer without any AA or AF or Truform <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
for those interested by "this computer" i mean
2.8ghz HT 800mhz FSB 1MB L2 Prescott
512mb Dual DDR 400
Radeon 9800 Pro
120G SATA
hope you fix your problem soon saltz
EDIT: Saltz, if you're going to format, install win2k or xp or something. Much better IMO <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you and the others have something very wrong as there is NO reason for that performance, you obviously haven't installed mobo drivers or configured the rest of the system. there is no way that any 9x00 greater than 9500 will run that slowly on any mod for hl or any old game like that. Please follow my instructions explicitly. Additionally, please get all windows updates as they may be part of your problem. You guys have problems.
Decoupling the video card from the refresh rate (what triple buffering does) seems to get around the 'problems' ATI cards seem to have with HL.
I can only hypothesize that something in the drivers bungs up when more than one draw-panel is stored (aka: the new Steam VGUI) in frame-allocation memory. I've seen it in a number of other programs that use PBuffer storage, but triple-buffering works well to at least stabilize the framerate.
Heck, I just boosted my sync rate to 90hz and forced the OGL lock to match that, and I'm cranking along at a solid 90 at all times... even in a turret-spammed Marine base. Unfortunately my monitor doesn't seem too happy running at 100hz, or I'd jump up to that (and it gives a solid 100fps, but the monitor makes an annoying whine). And I'm just on an R9500 Pro. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40325&highlight=Video+Card' target='_blank'>ATI Thread "Steam Forums"</a>
I tried that once, I got absolutely insane mouse lag. Forcing on triple buffering in games that weren't intended to use it may cause problems such as this.
get back and comm saltz!
anyways, its kind of a shame that ati cards generally perform poorer in opengl mode than d3d (do a search on google if you dont believe me)
even my comp drops down to 30-40 fps on this computer without any AA or AF or Truform <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
for those interested by "this computer" i mean
2.8ghz HT 800mhz FSB 1MB L2 Prescott
512mb Dual DDR 400
Radeon 9800 Pro
120G SATA
hope you fix your problem soon saltz
EDIT: Saltz, if you're going to format, install win2k or xp or something. Much better IMO <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you and the others have something very wrong as there is NO reason for that performance, you obviously haven't installed mobo drivers or configured the rest of the system. there is no way that any 9x00 greater than 9500 will run that slowly on any mod for hl or any old game like that. Please follow my instructions explicitly. Additionally, please get all windows updates as they may be part of your problem. You guys have problems. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, we know this. The point is, we also aren't thick, and in fact some of us are fairly technical. Doesn't mean the problem doesn't still occur.
Incidentally, Garet Jax was telling the complete truth, try not to be so hard on him.
And if all else fails, get some low poly models.
On the bright side, I found great tweaks that let NS run fine on a GF4 MX :/
Time to return the 9800 pro and buy something when I have a game that needs it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
On the bright side, I found great tweaks that let NS run fine on a GF4 MX :/
Time to return the 9800 pro and buy something when I have a game that needs it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
woa don't panic, or else send your 9800 to my adress, i'll gladly free you from it.
1- Get directx 9.0b
2-get some ati drivers from their web site for radeon series.
3- goto add/remove programs and uninstal ATI driver and control panel
4- reboot
5- install the drivers u dnloader
6- reboot i guess and go to your drivers properstie. DISABLE FAST WRITE ( you may have some prob with your motherboard )
7- DISABLE VPU RECOVER
8- DISABLE VSYNC in d3d and openGl
<b>9- DISABLE TRUFORM !!!!!!!!!</b> put it to always off in D3D and GL
i can guarantee you if you installed your agp drivers and other drivers ( like sound card ) everything should be fine.
USE OPENGL for HALF-LIFE
Enabling VSync with triple-buffer on is almost essential. Though I'm sure some people don't care about tearing, it looks fugly, and normally is NOT worth it. And I've never had a problem with VPU Recover. It's actually prevented a couple of crashes with a badly-coded application.
1. Vsync does not raise fps, it lowers it to the maximum your monitor refresh rate is... judging from your problems, your mon is prolly on 60hz meaning it will never go above 60... beyond that, if it ever gets below 60 it will "choke" but this should never happen...
2. Triple buffering allows vsync to not "choke" when the fps are lower than the fps limit (your refresh rate) meaning it is only a good thing, however it DOES cause mouse lag because it is pre-rendering a frame ahead of time thus if you had a 60hz refresh rate it would be storing the first 2 frames (double buffering which is used in vsync) + the third frame which is on in triple buffering... thus you get 3 out of 60 frames that are delayed... causing a 5% delay every second... this increases as fps decreases because your 3fps will be out of say like 30...
3. Your gf4mx is 20 times slower than your 9800pro, you either are ignorant (not following the instructions listed in this post) or you are a fanboy that is just flaming and causing problems... ergo don't even bring this idea up again.
4. If you cannot get rid of win98, or can't format and follow the instructions we give explicitly, please do the following and do them in order and don't skip:
-Uninstall all nvidia related stuff in your add/remove programs panel.
-Go download nvidia file remover to make sure ALL nvidia crap is off your system at:
<a href='http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=582' target='_blank'>http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=582</a>
Run it, remove ALL nvidia references and restart.
- Uninstall all ati software (drivers...)
-Get ALL critical windows updates. If it says there is an error, make sure the date and time are set correctly then try again (a m$ security feature...). Restart.
-Get the LATEST direct x available on windows update. Install it. Restart.
-Get your motherboard drivers. Remember, if you have a via chipset get the via hyperion drivers (formerly known as 4in1) available at viaarena.com, else if you have an nvidia chip get the nforce drivers available at nvidia.com, else if you have a sis based motherboard goto the sis website for the drivers.*** This is the most important part of this whole process, you will gain roughly 80% of your performance boost with this. Restart
-Get your video card drivers, get the newest available at ati.com (4.5's) and install them. Restart.
-Install the NEWEST soundcard drivers available at the manufacturers site. If it is integrated and you have a via chip, check out viaarena for integrated soundcard drivers. If you have an nvidia chip, have no fear the sound driver is built into the nforce driver (the motherboard driver you already got). Restart.
-Once this is complete, please goto www.futuremark.com and download 3dmark 2001 and 03 and run them and then post your results here. (this will let us figure out what is the problem as well as other system information.)
-Try out halflife, making sure you are in opengl and you are running in 32bit mode.
PLEASE post problems or questions or results here, and don't say "it doesnt' run well", please tell us specifically what isn't working, when it slows down, if other games are doing this, etc. Thank you.
Essentially, there is one buffer being displayed, and one buffer being drawn in 'traditional' mode. When the sync hits, it flips from the displayed to the drawn. However, the video card has to wait for that sync 'hit'.
Triple-buffering mode is far more effective. It still has one buffer being displayed, but it has *two* draw-buffers. The video card draws one, then the other, alternating back and forth as fast as it can.
If you fail to see why this is a strength, think about it... you ALWAYS have a frame ready to be displayed. The card no longer has to wait on the timing hit. It gives a more up-to-the-mirosecond display of what's happening in the game (again, no waiting around), and the GPU doesn't have to stop and start constantly, allowing for greater efficiency.
Triple-buffering would NOT cause mouse-lag. If anything, it'd *fix* mouse-lag, excepting possibly in the previously-noted pseudo-tri-buff situation.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Triple-buffering would NOT cause mouse-lag. If anything, it'd *fix* mouse-lag, excepting possibly in the previously-noted pseudo-tri-buff situation.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On my radeon 9800pro I get ~0.2 second absolutely OBSCENE mouse lag in HL(<span style='color:red'>edit, oops, with triple buffering I mean <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--></span>).(but not in other OGL games where I've tried). I'm using stock cat 3.6's at the moment but I have tried triple buffering with 4.0's and recently with the 4.5's(reverted to 3.6's just now), changes nothing at all except the new drivers cause some stuttering and the 3.6's none whatsoever(again, stuttering appears HL specific). I'm also allergic to turning vsync off.
Okay, I have a K7S5A, running a HoneyX OC bios recently just to be on the safe side with my Thoroughbred 2000+. No change. I haven't found any actual chipset drivers though, and its kind of been bugging me - AGP VxD, IDE drivers et cetera, all there, but if I remember right that and BIOS flashes are not all there is to chipset drivers. :/
If someone could link me to a set, I'd be really happy.
I'm running the newest Audio and video drivers, and in the meantime I've got Tribes 2 to run like a boner on this puny little GF4 MX (returned the Radeon, figured by the time a new game is out it'll be cheaper anyway). To whoever suggested I'd be trolling because I have problems with his beloved Radeon, <i>you sir, are a moron.</i> I've come across hundreds of damn pages of people with similiar, significant FPS drops on ATI cards, in HL only (and usually epoly related. higher epoly = drastically lower FPS). In other words, structures and players drop it like a mofo, in the Radeons case down to 5 FPS regularly. That the issue exists, and that any lowly NVidia card can perform better, is not up for dispute. Now go hug a benchmark, or something.
Back on topic :
For some really, really queer reason after going back to my old card, I'm having the same effect, although less drastically in Half-Life. More demanding games run better - it manages Splinter Cell, Tribes 2 on high detail et cetera fairly well. Just not Half Life. Thats why I'm still posting here anyway. The problem will be fixed soon by a reinstall probably, but I'm still trying to get around that, as I'll have to somehow find some windows .cabs that I don't have <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I've done all the standard procedures to remove old drivers and install new ones, cleaned out any old registry entrys and whatnot and am not running any programms in the background (aside from my grandparents AOL, but someday I'm gonna find a way to get around that memory-hog <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> - thats not an issue though, theres lots of people running AOL without those issues).
As mentioned, I've been building systems the last 10 years (although not commercially the last ~3 years) and have ample experience troubleshooting. That Radeon thing really, really stumped me. So just please save yourself some time, don't tell me how great a 9800 Pro is and how much I must sux0r, but only post if you've found something that relates to my problem or thats not said in every generic advice thread. Thanks.
You are talking about GFX cards, not your mothers. Try and keep some perspective.
Have a look at that link, SaltzBad... Few of my friends solved their problems with ATI cards using Rage3D tweak...
HTH
Your problems are probably the result of a non-video card related problem, since you have already stated that switching video cards did not stop the problem. If I were you, I would just build a custom system with a high end processor, nice Asus mobo, and see just how sweet that lovely radeon runs. Your video card is easily limited by your CPU, and since your CPU quite plainly sucks (I should talk, my CPU is running 1.4 Ghz, as opposed to your 1.67 ghz), that might be a big part of your problem.
2. Switching cards did solve the problem - but now I've got a new breed of this problem, for some reason. The ATI one was alot more drastic, nearly freezing the screen in a fight - now its just an uncomftorably low FPS, making playing a bit annoying.
I used to run a 900 Mhz Athlon and get perfect FPS in all HL apps :/
Edit : Yes, I'd been using R3D tweak too. Nothing helped.