Oh i see... When someone other then me <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=68802&hl=' target='_blank'>makes a thread on Unchaining chambers</a> you all jump on it like its the last bus outta town!
hardly anyone reads the I & S forums <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-SDJASON+May 31 2004, 02:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SDJASON @ May 31 2004, 02:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i hope this is the BUS <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> me too <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'm just gonna quietly jump on the Unchain train real quick <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well since its your idea <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Was thinking that to counter an increase of SC's that would be placed maybe the obs should uncloak towers, rather than giving you a big blue circle on your HuD?
Why dont you make a topic called flayra smells, and when Nemisis come to delete it he will actualy read your idea and tell flayra <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
IM SOOO SICK OF DMS EVERY GAME..... every frikin game i play.
i need somthing new. Ns is getting very very stale. every game the same thing. the strats are soo stale and overused that ns has turned into broken record.
WHO CARES IF THIS UNBALANCES EVERYTHING!!! illl sit throug the re-balancing process.
i really dont think this will unbalance everything because the one reamaing factor is RECOURCES,,,,
if you get all nine chambers that means:
* NO SECOND HIVE FOR ANOTHER 5 2-3 MINUTES
* NO FADES FOR ANOTHER 5 MINUTES
* people constantly upgrading and STILL dieing with will be a res sink hole and slow the aleins down even more.
If you got all 3 3lvl upgrades. thats 6 RES per alein that gets the 3 3lvl upgrades.
THIS alein will have to kill an average of 3 marines to just PAY OFF his upgrade expences. None seems to get that with more res beiong used to have more powerfull aleins there will be NO res chambers NO fades NO onos NO lerks.
If people get all 3 upgrades there are goign to be NO early fades.
so you have 2 stratigic options
you can have EARLY FADES AND SUPER WEAK SKULKS.
or really strong skulks and NO fades for a long time.
get this through your head its not going to unbalance ANYTHING
This is one band wagon I will be happy to jump on. It would obviously require lots of testing, but NS is really hurting for variety.
In theory this would greatly add to the strategy for one hive aliens. Marines outside the hive? Have a few carpace skulks take the point followed by some celerity skulks to take fire and distract the marines, then a focus skulk or two come in and mop up. Stuff like this is what NS is lacking, and what it needs. Aliens would choose: do we want to be adaptable early game, or get that hive up? Would it be better to power out two more nodes, or two throw down a sensory blanket?
Merh, as long as the amount of traits aliens got was locked according to how many hives the marines have, I can see this working.
<!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+May 31 2004, 09:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ May 31 2004, 09:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh i see... When someone other then me <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=68802&hl=' target='_blank'>makes a thread on Unchaining chambers</a> you all jump on it like its the last bus outta town! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I try to avoid that cesspool of insanity...
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
<!--QuoteBegin-Epidemic+May 30 2004, 04:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ May 30 2004, 04:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+May 30 2004, 04:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ May 30 2004, 04:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+May 29 2004, 09:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ May 29 2004, 09:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You could always make it so that upgrades cost:
3 res with one hive
2 res with two hives
1 res with three hives.
This would both make multiple upgrades a risky choice with one hive (not including the cost of the chambers being built) and also benefit the kharaa even further if they build multiple hives.
Just a thought. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This would further make aliens weaker at one hive, and stronger with more hives, which is not the problem.
Currently 2 hives is practically a gg for marines while 1 hive is total crap and if you don't get two hives you are almost guarenteed to lose <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not if you can upgrade all 3 type with one hive. You achieve a stronger 1 hive aliens and less 2 and 3 hived <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thank you for pointing out the obvious fact that Folorn missed.
The fact that being able to field full Celerity or Focus Skulks with Carapace less than 1 minute into the game might be somewhat of an excessive benefit unless there is some downside.
Plus you need to give added incentive to build the second hive, rather than just superskulking.
But having full upgrades one minute in would require everyone on the team (and it would have to be a huge team) to drop all the chambers at game start. Then you have no res for RTs, and your superskulks (who can still only take one TYPE of upgrade for the one hive you have) are quickly mopped up by the marines who have res dominance.
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
<!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Jun 1 2004, 01:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Jun 1 2004, 01:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But having full upgrades one minute in would require everyone on the team (and it would have to be a huge team) to drop all the chambers at game start. Then you have no res for RTs, and your superskulks (who can still only take one TYPE of upgrade for the one hive you have) are quickly mopped up by the marines who have res dominance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm working on the basis that all three upgrades would be available to a skulk who wished to purchase them, but if evolutions were limited to one per hive, that wouldn't be such an issue.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And the question that is always raised is "Wait, won't that make aliens too powerful?". Not nessessarily. An alien would only be able to evolve a number of evolutionary traits equal to the number of hives. Hence, a 1 hive skulk could take regen, or focus, or silence. A 2 hive skulk could take regen and focus, but not silence as well. A 3 hive skulk could take all 3.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well I'm going by this, from the original post in the thread. It seems like a great balancing feature to me. The only question then becomes, can a hive two skulk take two ups from the same chamber, say, cara AND regen? I think it would still work out, but that might be too much of a change to hope for.
<!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+May 31 2004, 06:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ May 31 2004, 06:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The fact that being able to field full Celerity or Focus Skulks with Carapace less than 1 minute into the game might be somewhat of an excessive benefit unless there is some downside. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This would pretty much never happen.
For One Minute super skulks it would require a team of a miniumum of 9 players, ALL go gorge immediatly, and drop all the chambers. No res for towers, defences, or higher lifeforms. Or Res to continually upgrade those skulks as they die as well.
I doubt you'd see 3 of all chambers even 5 minutes into the game, frell even 10 minutes into the game.
the original post talked about having only one upgrade per hive.
you could not get celerity and focus and carapace without three hives.
you could only achive mutiple chamber benefits by being near a chamber, ie. upgrade silence and stand near to a DC and sens to get cloak/ regen/ silence early on. this would cost a bomb.
also on the subject of same chamber upgrades with multiple hives, I dont think that should make it in, regen/cara/redeem onos anyone?
to recap.
ONE UPGRADE PER HIVE ONLY. BUILD ANY CHAMBER, ANY TIME.
<!--QuoteBegin-Melatonin+May 31 2004, 07:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Melatonin @ May 31 2004, 07:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> also on the subject of same chamber upgrades with multiple hives, I dont think that should make it in, regen/cara/redeem onos anyone? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> While it would probably never die, it wouldn't be very effective either. It would be slow as heck, and if there are any mariens around a defended area it would get torn up before it could do any damage.
<!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+May 31 2004, 07:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ May 31 2004, 07:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Jun 1 2004, 01:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Jun 1 2004, 01:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But having full upgrades one minute in would require everyone on the team (and it would have to be a huge team) to drop all the chambers at game start. Then you have no res for RTs, and your superskulks (who can still only take one TYPE of upgrade for the one hive you have) are quickly mopped up by the marines who have res dominance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm working on the basis that all three upgrades would be available to a skulk who wished to purchase them, but if evolutions were limited to one per hive, that wouldn't be such an issue. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I assumed that one upgrade per hive was the basis of the idea.
Of course you couldn't have a celerity/carapace/focus skulk at the one hive level, it makes no sense. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Daxx22+Jun 1 2004, 12:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Daxx22 @ Jun 1 2004, 12:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Melatonin+May 31 2004, 07:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Melatonin @ May 31 2004, 07:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> also on the subject of same chamber upgrades with multiple hives, I dont think that should make it in, regen/cara/redeem onos anyone? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Try it in combat. It's not as good as you would think.
That regenerating, carapaced, redeeming onos doesn't sound so powerful anymore, does he? With marine top tier tech being as overpowered as it is, this would actually be a really nice way to balance it out. It would help break those horrible end game stalemates that plague pubs. Turrets and elec tfacs and nadespam and HMGs hitting everything that comes into a room is just not fun.
Comments
The impulse command for spray is :
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->impulse 201<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
me too <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You have my support
Was thinking that to counter an increase of SC's that would be placed maybe the obs should uncloak towers, rather than giving you a big blue circle on your HuD?
Why dont you make a topic called flayra smells, and when Nemisis come to delete it he will actualy read your idea and tell flayra <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Lets go Flayra! Lets go!
Add this change Flayra! Add this change!
i need somthing new. Ns is getting very very stale. every game the same thing. the strats are soo stale and overused that ns has turned into broken record.
WHO CARES IF THIS UNBALANCES EVERYTHING!!! illl sit throug the re-balancing process.
i really dont think this will unbalance everything because the one reamaing factor is RECOURCES,,,,
if you get all nine chambers that means:
* NO SECOND HIVE FOR ANOTHER 5 2-3 MINUTES
* NO FADES FOR ANOTHER 5 MINUTES
* people constantly upgrading and STILL dieing with will be a res sink hole and slow the aleins down even more.
If you got all 3 3lvl upgrades. thats 6 RES per alein that gets the 3 3lvl upgrades.
THIS alein will have to kill an average of 3 marines to just PAY OFF his upgrade expences. None seems to get that with more res beiong used to have more powerfull aleins there will be NO res chambers NO fades NO onos NO lerks.
If people get all 3 upgrades there are goign to be NO early fades.
so you have 2 stratigic options
you can have EARLY FADES AND SUPER WEAK SKULKS.
or really strong skulks and NO fades for a long time.
get this through your head its not going to unbalance ANYTHING
Now let the devs decide. Im sure enough PTs are aware of this idea to let Flay know about it.
In theory this would greatly add to the strategy for one hive aliens. Marines outside the hive? Have a few carpace skulks take the point followed by some celerity skulks to take fire and distract the marines, then a focus skulk or two come in and mop up. Stuff like this is what NS is lacking, and what it needs. Aliens would choose: do we want to be adaptable early game, or get that hive up? Would it be better to power out two more nodes, or two throw down a sensory blanket?
Merh, as long as the amount of traits aliens got was locked according to how many hives the marines have, I can see this working.
I hope the developers keep an open mind.
How about we start an angry mob?
I try to avoid that cesspool of insanity...
Yay! Poll!
3 res with one hive
2 res with two hives
1 res with three hives.
This would both make multiple upgrades a risky choice with one hive (not including the cost of the chambers being built) and also benefit the kharaa even further if they build multiple hives.
Just a thought. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This would further make aliens weaker at one hive, and stronger with more hives, which is not the problem.
Currently 2 hives is practically a gg for marines while 1 hive is total crap and if you don't get two hives you are almost guarenteed to lose <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not if you can upgrade all 3 type with one hive. You achieve a stronger 1 hive aliens and less 2 and 3 hived <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you for pointing out the obvious fact that Folorn missed.
The fact that being able to field full Celerity or Focus Skulks with Carapace less than 1 minute into the game might be somewhat of an excessive benefit unless there is some downside.
Plus you need to give added incentive to build the second hive, rather than just superskulking.
I'm working on the basis that all three upgrades would be available to a skulk who wished to purchase them, but if evolutions were limited to one per hive, that wouldn't be such an issue.
Well I'm going by this, from the original post in the thread. It seems like a great balancing feature to me. The only question then becomes, can a hive two skulk take two ups from the same chamber, say, cara AND regen? I think it would still work out, but that might be too much of a change to hope for.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This would pretty much never happen.
For One Minute super skulks it would require a team of a miniumum of 9 players, ALL go gorge immediatly, and drop all the chambers. No res for towers, defences, or higher lifeforms. Or Res to continually upgrade those skulks as they die as well.
I doubt you'd see 3 of all chambers even 5 minutes into the game, frell even 10 minutes into the game.
So that would be your downside.
you could not get celerity and focus and carapace without three hives.
you could only achive mutiple chamber benefits by being near a chamber, ie. upgrade silence and stand near to a DC and sens to get cloak/ regen/ silence early on.
this would cost a bomb.
also on the subject of same chamber upgrades with multiple hives, I dont think that should make it in, regen/cara/redeem onos anyone?
to recap.
ONE UPGRADE PER HIVE ONLY.
BUILD ANY CHAMBER, ANY TIME.
easy.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
While it would probably never die, it wouldn't be very effective either. It would be slow as heck, and if there are any mariens around a defended area it would get torn up before it could do any damage.
I'm working on the basis that all three upgrades would be available to a skulk who wished to purchase them, but if evolutions were limited to one per hive, that wouldn't be such an issue. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I assumed that one upgrade per hive was the basis of the idea.
Of course you couldn't have a celerity/carapace/focus skulk at the one hive level, it makes no sense. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Try it in combat. It's not as good as you would think.
That regenerating, carapaced, redeeming onos doesn't sound so powerful anymore, does he? With marine top tier tech being as overpowered as it is, this would actually be a really nice way to balance it out. It would help break those horrible end game stalemates that plague pubs. Turrets and elec tfacs and nadespam and HMGs hitting everything that comes into a room is just not fun.