<!--QuoteBegin-[QcBs]God Killer+Jun 14 2004, 03:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([QcBs]God Killer @ Jun 14 2004, 03:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [QUOTE] I myself want to see a completly random shotgun blast and bhop removed (skulk base speed increased).
People expect the shotgun blast to be random, and who in thier right mind would ever even contemplate bunnyhopping if no one told them about it, it goes against your instinct :E
Ok so you want ns to be more luck, less skill, less experience and make newbies better...go play cs if you want random. I already want to destroy my pc when I shoot perfectly or bite perfectly and not damaging the target. Hit boxes are random enough.
I hate LMG and hmg because of their spray shooting thats influenced by luck, I use pistol and shotgun cos they are ONLY skill weapons. I am an extremely skillfull player, and I own in every FPS exept in cs because of its arcade like aspect that makes low skilled players get head shots from bad shooting and skillfull players sometimes miss target because of random recoil spray.
If it was only me, i would make LMG and HMG shoot in a strait line but give more hp to skulk, lerk, and gorge. Then skill would be the only key of being the best.
Leave skill alone or I'll go back playing doom alone. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You are playing the wrong game here. NS isn't about who is the best shooter, it's about who is the smartest. Of coure good shooting helps, but you can't run around the map killing aliens complete idiot. Which I think you do, but that is beside the point. Lmg and hmg fire are randomized because of that fact. Skilled people are not meant to own everything, they just own a bit better that the rest.
<!--QuoteBegin-TyrNemesis^+Jun 14 2004, 08:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TyrNemesis^ @ Jun 14 2004, 08:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't know why you would base your test of a crosshair on bullet decals, since they have nothing to do with what the server sees. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Try :
cl_lw "0" cl_lc "0"
It disables lag compensation and contacts the server for bullet decals.
Anyway it is irrevlevant now as in the next update the shotgun will be randomised.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok so you want ns to be more luck, less skill, less experience and make newbies better...go play cs if you want random. I already want to destroy my pc when I shoot perfectly or bite perfectly and not damaging the target. Hit boxes are random enough.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Did I say that? No.
I want NS to be based more on common sense, just because you can exploit the game engine to your advantage doesn't make you 'skilled' even though it does improve your game.
With the current bullet decals you see being completly random on the shotgun, why would anyone assume that the bullets travel otherwise, except by being told by someone in an internet forum that many players won't even have heard of.
It you want a game based purely on aim and reactions go play insta-gib Quake, NS is based even less on skill than CS seeing as it has a strong RTS system. No matter how skilled you are you aren't going to take out an Onos with a level 1 LMG are you?
I just want to say I like this kind of crosshairs a LOT (though I use the one without the outer pellets, they distract me). Should shott pellets be randomized... I think so, but meanwhile... I love this crosshairs <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If it was only me, i would make LMG and HMG shoot in a strait line but give more hp to skulk, lerk, and gorge. Then skill would be the only key of being the best. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
? ? ? ? ? ? Real guns don't work that way cos theres something called recoil. And even if NS is science fiction it still tries to depict guns that could be real (or else we'll be using tactical nukes instead of mines <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->). Now I'm not saying we should use CS-type recoil (its difficult enough to catch an skulk without it) but all guns firing just we're you're aiming even if its 20miles away... not good at all, not fun, and destroys the 'realism' feel that a firearm (even a sci-fi one) must have.
Oh, and TyrNemesis^, plz don't insult ppl that obviously know more than you about HL vars.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->With the current bullet decals you see being completly random on the shotgun, why would anyone assume that the bullets travel otherwise, except by being told by someone in an internet forum that many players won't even have heard of. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats why all that should be said when your read the instructions manual and give a set of custom crosshair in config menu. I don't really like when not everyone can be informed, but if you wanna get good at anything and have internet, check out the forums!!! Even if I wanted to get better at playing guitar, lets say, I'll check for forums.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No matter how skilled you are you aren't going to take out an Onos with a level 1 LMG are you? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe not but ppl NEED to be better to compensate for lower level of upgrades, ok its normal that even the best player in the world can't kill a decent Onos with a Lmg, but if 3 marines can, thats where skill takes place.
Like now, its possible to kill a fade alone with a shotgun Lvl 1/1, but you need skill to do that. I defenitly don't want anything more than now that interfears between my skills and his skill. Why random shotgun? Lets put it random swipe too! And random damage. Random hit/miss rate like in RPG's.
I don't mind getting owned by better players and no one should, really. Anyone who asks for something to go random, probably consider's himself not good enough to compete with the best without the help of lucky shots like getting head shots from bursting ak-47.
I love getting head shots in cs from the first fired bullet but not with 2nd or 3rd bullet from burst, I hate myself for that...that's just lucky bs. Something that's not only influenced by skill.
Well, i've always been more for skill than luck and quake's fine but I lost my cd-key...anyway ns is waaaay better in a lot of ways
I think the point is awareness, not a debate of skill. Like it's been said before, some people have known about the issue for quite some time. That may turn it in to a point of elitism for some, but I'd rather see it as a result of their playing the game at a competitive level where understanding the game mechanics goes hand in hand with their skill level.
I play mmorpg's where the element of "randomness" is eliminated simply by knowing the system behind the numbers. More often than not people don't bother or care about the mechanics until a point where they realise there's a disparity in what they can do and what someone else with equal base ability can do. At this point someone can just ask the community and all is revealed.
That's what this forum seems to be (along with other ns community forums) in terms of questioning HOW something works to become better as a player. The shotgun is just one issue and it has become perfectly clear for people. Make it a purely random weapon and you can introduce even more confusing issues that will be continually questioned.
an impressive crosshair, good idea, good execution.
but so far as the bullets hitting in identical locations each time, thats kinda lame. i mean, what sets ns apart is its 'realism to itself.' it may be sci-fi, but it feels like it could be real. a shotgun that hits the same spot everytime kinda detracts from that doesn't it?
and in regards to the killing a guy with a burst headshot, it doesn't matter what bullet hit him...he's just as dead, so who cares?
Why would the skillfull clan community of ns want a random shotgun. Damn, if the guy can aim, leave him alone. I didn't get totally better with the new set of crosshairs. Why is it ppl want randomness? Cos they're tired of always being owned by ppl better than them.
Lets say we knew exacly the range that spores damages, than what? So ppl would say lets make it more random cos I don't want to learn the pattern and get better, I want to be lucky.
I really don't understand why someone good at a game would want it to be randomised in any way. I HATE HAVING LUCKY SHOOTS!!!!
Why? Cos I know that if it happens to me, it can happen to anyone, excluding the fact they are skilled or not, me too for the mather. Ns isn't mario kart with handicaps put in for runner ups. Its a game that should be played with honor of giving all you got to make the team win. If I put all my will in one shotgun hit, and then hit with the aim dead on, I do not want any randomness to come in between the win or the lost.
They only put randomness in games to please low skilled ppl so they can have fun once in a while...thats fine for some kind of games. But in games like ns where clan's compete, why the hell someone would want something to interfere with proving :
Who's the bests of the bests and thats willing to give all his guts to prove it.
There so absoloutly nothing wrong with having no randomness is ns - the only problem is that no everyone knows about it. Ive been playing ns since 1.04 and ive always assumed that the shottie was random. Now i realise thats its not i have no problem with that - the only problem that i have is that no one told me that the shottie has a set pattern. If it was a wide known fact that the shottie was not random then id have no problem with that. But since ns has come out the majority of people have been told that it is random. The only way to comabt this is either actually but in randomness or have a x-hair the likes of this one so that people realise that they have been deluded.
<!--QuoteBegin-RhaAL+Jun 16 2004, 11:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RhaAL @ Jun 16 2004, 11:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> this crossair is off center by heaps, making me get owned wen im using it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's the whole point with this crosshair, that and the opther dots.
I'd like to reiterate that I only tested this crosshair at 1024x768. At lower resolutions (800x600) and probably higher ones, people report to me that it's terribly inaccurate.
<!--QuoteBegin-TyrNemesis^+Jun 22 2004, 01:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TyrNemesis^ @ Jun 22 2004, 01:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd like to reiterate that I only tested this crosshair at 1024x768. At lower resolutions (800x600) and probably higher ones, people report to me that it's terribly inaccurate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1024x768 looks like ill down my res, im using the max one atm, just cause i can =D
god killer, the reason I think shotgun spread should be random is because you shouldn't be able to SNIPE with it. Given this crosshair, you could nail a skulk (albeit one pellet at a time) from across the Great Viaduct balcony. If you're right in the face of an alien, randomness won't matter anyway. The shotgun pellets will be random, but at such a close range they'd hit no matter what spread they went in. Again, at close range there won't be any randomness put into your shots. And there is no such thing as a "lucky shot" in NS since there isn't locational damage.
That said, I appreciate the randomness of the weapons in NS. I realize that the shots will not always go on the exact dot of the crosshair, where you are aiming them. You can complain about that, and say because you have the skill to put the crosshair on a target you should hit it. Fair enough, but maybe you should learn a different way of applying your skill and shoot in situations where you have a greater probability of hitting. I.E. you know that the shot will not always go on target, so save the shot for closer range, or only take shots that you know the spread will not account for. I don't take shotgun shots at long range because I know that few, if any, of the pellets are going to hit my target. So I save the bullets for a closer encounter.
You will notice that the people with the most kills in CS are the people who take the most shots. They take more opportunities, since things are based on probability, the more tries, the more favorable results.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the reason I think shotgun spread should be random is because you shouldn't be able to SNIPE with it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shotgun range is limited, anyway i always go fo hand gun from far, like duh.
It depends how random it can be, as long as 10 ft range stays real good with crosshair. If I get plenty of perfect shots that i see the bullet go WAY off i'll definetivly complain.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->cant wait till its randomized, then ill pown with it, random is the skillz<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well If you wanted to irritate me with something that makes no sense at ALL, then... u missed, I know its just to be annoying. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you shouldn't be able to SNIPE with it<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So doing 17 dmg per pellet as opposed to doing 20 with a pistol? Kinda worthless I'd say.
<!--QuoteBegin-version91x+Jun 23 2004, 05:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (version91x @ Jun 23 2004, 05:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you shouldn't be able to SNIPE with it<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So doing 17 dmg per pellet as opposed to doing 20 with a pistol? Kinda worthless I'd say. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yea, just put a scope on the pistol, and you have a very good sniping gun...
The fact that you ought to use the pistol is not the point. It's that any game's shotgun ought to be that it can't be used at range. Just like some other gun might have a drawback of having a low clip size, or making you run slower, the shotgun's (supposed) drawback is that it can't be used accurately at range. This is game theory here, where a gun should have an area of expertise and an area of uselessness. This crosshair diminishes significantly the drawbacks of the shotgun. Granted, you can still only hit one or two pellets out of eight at range, but the fact is that you can hit those one or two pellets with certainty. Certainty is the idea of the pistol, not the shotgun. The shotgun is about timing shots, and maximizing damage potentials (ie not taking a shot at an enemy that's running behind cover, and instead saving that shell for an open area, because more pellets will hit). And besides, if you say you can use the pistol at long range, then why do you want this crosshair at all?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if you say you can use the pistol at long range, then why do you want this crosshair at all?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
bullseye
a shotguns a shotgun ...its for close range wots the point of knowing where the pellets r going if the enemy is 1 foot infront of you
Y ?
so u can get a sneaky shot of at a skulk u normaly woulda missed because of the shotgun spread
Ok first, shotgun pellets disapear at about 30ft (Not sure exactly)
2nd I mean, all this time you taught the new crosshair was to snipe? Wth?
This new crosshair never made me better, just more aware of perfection. Anyway, someone who really takes the time to aim with individual bullets...is wasting his time.
But what do ppl have now against shotgun all a sudden? I mean are ppl really SO afraid of skillfull players owning em more lets make it random since we have specefic crosshair...WTH?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This crosshair diminishes significantly the drawbacks of the shotgun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
WHY? I've been shooting skulks running away with my shotgun ever since I played ns the first time. Look closely at the original crosshair, and look at the modified one. The pellets you need to worry about are exaclty where the old crosshair was.
I use a 5 pellet crosshair, just the middle...who cares about the 3 other pellets? They just hit at close range no idiot will snipe with those off the way pellets in a competitive way.
I just wish no one would of came out with a new shotgun crosshair that a minority would complain about.
The only thing the new crosshair shows better, is lattency bugs when the blood doesnt juice out exactly where the pellets are. Other than that its 90 percent useless compared to original crosshair. I know that pellets go slightly more upper right than the crosshair since a long time ago.
Why complain when something does'nt apear random anymore? I like getting owned by skill more than by luck all the time, why someone would'nt???
any shotgun in any game ought to be randomized. it is part of the nature of any shotgun. I don't care that nobody in their right mind will ever use this crosshair to snipe skulks with. What matters is that you have the ability to do it. A game needs to have principles .. one of which is that you should NEVER be able to be certain where the pellets in a shotgun go. The point is that a shotgun OUGHT to be random, and it's not. I hate getting killed by luck. But I also hate getting killed by some super-skill vet guy who memorized the shot pattern on the 36th bullet of his clip. You shouldn't be able to learn those things. Those things should be random, so that the playing field is even.
I understand what you mean Windelkron, realistic wise, yes a shotgun is random.
But Ns was never meant to be realistic
Karaas don't exist (I hope) No man can jump like the ones in ns No handgun has perfect accuracy No one can aim properly when moving Human teleporters are just theory (Still would be cool) Med packs can't heal like that You can't make building appear
The list could go on, the point is realism sucks, thats why I played ns in the first place. It not as stupidly realism like counter-strike which makes the game all luck for ppl with low skill, half luck when you get good, all luck when you get perfect.
Yes I am to the point of 90 percent perfection with my shotgun aiming, the only chance a skulk may have against me is that latency will save his lucky ****. That happens too much already. (I make demos to check)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You shouldn't be able to learn those things. Those things should be random, so that the playing field is even.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well we can't really discuse more on that cos I always saw things the other way. I think random makes games uneven. I really don't mind getting killed by a nice shot.
If I decide to waste 200 hours on a game to be of the best and learn everything about it, I don't want to see a single once of luck beat me. I guess if I had a slight ray of luck that came from my insides then maybe I'd be more open to the subject, but I'm all skill...ok ok. 10 Percent luck <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-[QcBs]God Killer+Jun 25 2004, 01:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([QcBs]God Killer @ Jun 25 2004, 01:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But Ns was never meant to be realistic
Karaas don't exist (I hope) No man can jump like the ones in ns No handgun has perfect accuracy No one can aim properly when moving Human teleporters are just theory (Still would be cool) Med packs can't heal like that You can't make building appear <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry, but I personally think that's a horrible excuse. By the same token, if I was Flayra, I could put pacman in the game, and say that NS was never meant to be realistic so pacman fits.
Comments
People expect the shotgun blast to be random, and who in thier right mind would ever even contemplate bunnyhopping if no one told them about it, it goes against your instinct :E
Ok so you want ns to be more luck, less skill, less experience and make newbies better...go play cs if you want random. I already want to destroy my pc when I shoot perfectly or bite perfectly and not damaging the target. Hit boxes are random enough.
I hate LMG and hmg because of their spray shooting thats influenced by luck, I use pistol and shotgun cos they are ONLY skill weapons. I am an extremely skillfull player, and I own in every FPS exept in cs because of its arcade like aspect that makes low skilled players get head shots from bad shooting and skillfull players sometimes miss target because of random recoil spray.
If it was only me, i would make LMG and HMG shoot in a strait line but give more hp to skulk, lerk, and gorge. Then skill would be the only key of being the best.
Leave skill alone or I'll go back playing doom alone. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are playing the wrong game here. NS isn't about who is the best shooter, it's about who is the smartest. Of coure good shooting helps, but you can't run around the map killing aliens complete idiot. Which I think you do, but that is beside the point. Lmg and hmg fire are randomized because of that fact. Skilled people are not meant to own everything, they just own a bit better that the rest.
Try :
cl_lw "0"
cl_lc "0"
It disables lag compensation and contacts the server for bullet decals.
Anyway it is irrevlevant now as in the next update the shotgun will be randomised.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok so you want ns to be more luck, less skill, less experience and make newbies better...go play cs if you want random. I already want to destroy my pc when I shoot perfectly or bite perfectly and not damaging the target. Hit boxes are random enough.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did I say that? No.
I want NS to be based more on common sense, just because you can exploit the game engine to your advantage doesn't make you 'skilled' even though it does improve your game.
With the current bullet decals you see being completly random on the shotgun, why would anyone assume that the bullets travel otherwise, except by being told by someone in an internet forum that many players won't even have heard of.
It you want a game based purely on aim and reactions go play insta-gib Quake, NS is based even less on skill than CS seeing as it has a strong RTS system. No matter how skilled you are you aren't going to take out an Onos with a level 1 LMG are you?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If it was only me, i would make LMG and HMG shoot in a strait line but give more hp to skulk, lerk, and gorge. Then skill would be the only key of being the best.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
? ? ? ? ? ? Real guns don't work that way cos theres something called recoil. And even if NS is science fiction it still tries to depict guns that could be real (or else we'll be using tactical nukes instead of mines <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->). Now I'm not saying we should use CS-type recoil (its difficult enough to catch an skulk without it) but all guns firing just we're you're aiming even if its 20miles away... not good at all, not fun, and destroys the 'realism' feel that a firearm (even a sci-fi one) must have.
Oh, and TyrNemesis^, plz don't insult ppl that obviously know more than you about HL vars.
EDIT:typo
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats why all that should be said when your read the instructions manual and give a set of custom crosshair in config menu. I don't really like when not everyone can be informed, but if you wanna get good at anything and have internet, check out the forums!!!
Even if I wanted to get better at playing guitar, lets say, I'll check for forums.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No matter how skilled you are you aren't going to take out an Onos with a level 1 LMG are you?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe not but ppl NEED to be better to compensate for lower level of upgrades, ok its normal that even the best player in the world can't kill a decent Onos with a Lmg, but if 3 marines can, thats where skill takes place.
Like now, its possible to kill a fade alone with a shotgun Lvl 1/1, but you need skill to do that. I defenitly don't want anything more than now that interfears between my skills and his skill. Why random shotgun? Lets put it random swipe too! And random damage. Random hit/miss rate like in RPG's.
I don't mind getting owned by better players and no one should, really.
Anyone who asks for something to go random, probably consider's himself not good enough to compete with the best without the help of lucky shots like getting head shots from bursting ak-47.
I love getting head shots in cs from the first fired bullet but not with 2nd or 3rd bullet from burst, I hate myself for that...that's just lucky bs. Something that's not only influenced by skill.
Well, i've always been more for skill than luck and quake's fine but I lost my cd-key...anyway ns is waaaay better in a lot of ways
I play mmorpg's where the element of "randomness" is eliminated simply by knowing the system behind the numbers. More often than not people don't bother or care about the mechanics until a point where they realise there's a disparity in what they can do and what someone else with equal base ability can do. At this point someone can just ask the community and all is revealed.
That's what this forum seems to be (along with other ns community forums) in terms of questioning HOW something works to become better as a player. The shotgun is just one issue and it has become perfectly clear for people. Make it a purely random weapon and you can introduce even more confusing issues that will be continually questioned.
but so far as the bullets hitting in identical locations each time, thats kinda lame. i mean, what sets ns apart is its 'realism to itself.' it may be sci-fi, but it feels like it could be real. a shotgun that hits the same spot everytime kinda detracts from that doesn't it?
and in regards to the killing a guy with a burst headshot, it doesn't matter what bullet hit him...he's just as dead, so who cares?
Lets say we knew exacly the range that spores damages, than what? So ppl would say lets make it more random cos I don't want to learn the pattern and get better, I want to be lucky.
I really don't understand why someone good at a game would want it to be randomised in any way. I HATE HAVING LUCKY SHOOTS!!!!
Why? Cos I know that if it happens to me, it can happen to anyone, excluding the fact they are skilled or not, me too for the mather. Ns isn't mario kart with handicaps put in for runner ups.
Its a game that should be played with honor of giving all you got to make the team win. If I put all my will in one shotgun hit, and then hit with the aim dead on, I do not want any randomness to come in between the win or the lost.
They only put randomness in games to please low skilled ppl so they can have fun once in a while...thats fine for some kind of games. But in games like ns where clan's compete, why the hell someone would want something to interfere with proving :
Who's the bests of the bests and thats willing to give all his guts to prove it.
That's the whole point with this crosshair, that and the opther dots.
--Scythe--
1024x768 looks like ill down my res, im using the max one atm, just cause i can =D
That said, I appreciate the randomness of the weapons in NS. I realize that the shots will not always go on the exact dot of the crosshair, where you are aiming them. You can complain about that, and say because you have the skill to put the crosshair on a target you should hit it. Fair enough, but maybe you should learn a different way of applying your skill and shoot in situations where you have a greater probability of hitting. I.E. you know that the shot will not always go on target, so save the shot for closer range, or only take shots that you know the spread will not account for. I don't take shotgun shots at long range because I know that few, if any, of the pellets are going to hit my target. So I save the bullets for a closer encounter.
You will notice that the people with the most kills in CS are the people who take the most shots. They take more opportunities, since things are based on probability, the more tries, the more favorable results.
cant wait till its randomized, then ill pown with it, random is the skillz
<b>Shoot The Hive For Accurate Pellet Feedback</b>
Shotgun range is limited, anyway i always go fo hand gun from far, like duh.
It depends how random it can be, as long as 10 ft range stays real good with crosshair.
If I get plenty of perfect shots that i see the bullet go WAY off i'll definetivly complain.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->cant wait till its randomized, then ill pown with it, random is the skillz<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well If you wanted to irritate me with something that makes no sense at ALL, then...
u missed, I know its just to be annoying. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So doing 17 dmg per pellet as opposed to doing 20 with a pistol? Kinda worthless I'd say.
So doing 17 dmg per pellet as opposed to doing 20 with a pistol? Kinda worthless I'd say. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea, just put a scope on the pistol, and you have a very good sniping gun...
This is game theory here, where a gun should have an area of expertise and an area of uselessness. This crosshair diminishes significantly the drawbacks of the shotgun. Granted, you can still only hit one or two pellets out of eight at range, but the fact is that you can hit those one or two pellets with certainty. Certainty is the idea of the pistol, not the shotgun. The shotgun is about timing shots, and maximizing damage potentials (ie not taking a shot at an enemy that's running behind cover, and instead saving that shell for an open area, because more pellets will hit).
And besides, if you say you can use the pistol at long range, then why do you want this crosshair at all?
bullseye
a shotguns a shotgun ...its for close range wots the point of knowing where the pellets r going if the enemy is 1 foot infront of you
Y ?
so u can get a sneaky shot of at a skulk u normaly woulda missed because of the shotgun spread
2nd I mean, all this time you taught the new crosshair was to snipe? Wth?
This new crosshair never made me better, just more aware of perfection. Anyway, someone who really takes the time to aim with individual bullets...is wasting his time.
But what do ppl have now against shotgun all a sudden? I mean are ppl really SO afraid of skillfull players owning em more lets make it random since we have specefic crosshair...WTH?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This crosshair diminishes significantly the drawbacks of the shotgun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
WHY? I've been shooting skulks running away with my shotgun ever since I played ns the first time. Look closely at the original crosshair, and look at the modified one. The pellets you need to worry about are exaclty where the old crosshair was.
I use a 5 pellet crosshair, just the middle...who cares about the 3 other pellets? They just hit at close range no idiot will snipe with those off the way pellets in a competitive way.
I just wish no one would of came out with a new shotgun crosshair that a minority would complain about.
The only thing the new crosshair shows better, is lattency bugs when the blood doesnt juice out exactly where the pellets are. Other than that its 90 percent useless compared to original crosshair. I know that pellets go slightly more upper right than the crosshair since a long time ago.
Why complain when something does'nt apear random anymore?
I like getting owned by skill more than by luck all the time, why someone would'nt???
The point is that a shotgun OUGHT to be random, and it's not. I hate getting killed by luck. But I also hate getting killed by some super-skill vet guy who memorized the shot pattern on the 36th bullet of his clip. You shouldn't be able to learn those things. Those things should be random, so that the playing field is even.
But Ns was never meant to be realistic
Karaas don't exist (I hope)
No man can jump like the ones in ns
No handgun has perfect accuracy
No one can aim properly when moving
Human teleporters are just theory (Still would be cool)
Med packs can't heal like that
You can't make building appear
The list could go on, the point is realism sucks, thats why I played ns in the first place. It not as stupidly realism like counter-strike which makes the game all luck for ppl with low skill, half luck when you get good, all luck when you get perfect.
Yes I am to the point of 90 percent perfection with my shotgun aiming, the only chance a skulk may have against me is that latency will save his lucky ****. That happens too much already. (I make demos to check)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You shouldn't be able to learn those things. Those things should be random, so that the playing field is even.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well we can't really discuse more on that cos I always saw things the other way. I think random makes games uneven. I really don't mind getting killed by a nice shot.
If I decide to waste 200 hours on a game to be of the best and learn everything about it, I don't want to see a single once of luck beat me. I guess if I had a slight ray of luck that came from my insides then maybe I'd be more open to the subject, but I'm all skill...ok ok. 10 Percent luck <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
any1 can try to justify it but jue to the nature of it
it can give a player an advantage no matter how small (this being a slight boost in accuracy)
and if it made no diference THEN y make it in the first place
i understand perfectly wot Windelkron is saying and agree 100%
Karaas don't exist (I hope)
No man can jump like the ones in ns
No handgun has perfect accuracy
No one can aim properly when moving
Human teleporters are just theory (Still would be cool)
Med packs can't heal like that
You can't make building appear
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, but I personally think that's a horrible excuse. By the same token, if I was Flayra, I could put pacman in the game, and say that NS was never meant to be realistic so pacman fits.