Has Sieging Hives Become A Coward Action?

Anakyn_Skywalker · June 2004

<div class="IPBDescription">give your opinion!</div> i dont know why, but yesterday we played a great game, well organized and everything, but when i managed to place a phase gate, some turrets, 2 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' /> cannons and kill the hive a alien player wrote: "newby comm our hive". I dont really recall when using sieges became a coward or newby or something else.

What do you think about sieging hives???

Please tell!!

gazOzz · June 2004

Sieging is more than fine in most cases... That alien is just whining or you tried to siege the unfinished last hive... :)

EEK · June 2004

I personally think the whole concept of siege is retarded. It gives an utterly incompetent marine team the ability to destroy the objective, even if they suck so much they can't fight their way in there. Goes along with motion tracking and electricity as 'Stupidest features in a mod'. Maybe onos stomp should do 800 damage and go through walls so you can destroy the CC from the other side of a wall?

Gerald_R_Ford · June 2004

it's fine. if your team allowed itself to be sieged, then you're the ones to blame.

Sky · June 2004

I think siege would be fine, IF it required one marine to spot the hive for it. Even if the one marine was just sidestrafing back and forth quickly around a corner so ocs don't shoot him but he still is catching glimpses of the hive. It would let the aliens have an immediate way of stopping the sieges from shooting: kill the spotter. Other than that, sieges are fine, they fit into the RTS game formula, and basically allow for the destruction of a well-fortified position without the requirement of HAs. Diversity in tactics is a good thing.

Gerald_R_Ford · June 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (5kyh16h91 @ Jun 13 2004, 09:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I think siege would be fine, IF it required one marine to spot the hive for it. Even if the one marine was just sidestrafing back and forth quickly around a corner so ocs don't shoot him but he still is catching glimpses of the hive. It would let the aliens have an immediate way of stopping the sieges from shooting: kill the spotter. Other than that, sieges are fine, they fit into the RTS game formula, and basically allow for the destruction of a well-fortified position without the requirement of HAs. Diversity in tactics is a good thing.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
it does require a marine to spot if the sieges can't "see" it themselves, or the commander uses scan to see the hive; in which the commander can see it (and the commander is a marine), so it's all good.

Sky · June 2004

Oh, I thought it was implied in my post that the marine would HAVE to spot the hive, no more pinging. The com can still use ping to check for cloakers and to scout hive locations, but no more pinging to site the hive for sieges.

Firedragon · June 2004

I think seiging is both a good strat/tactic AND cowardly, my thoughts:

I think Seiging is a good strat if ya wanna quick game to end n move on to another game or to locking down 2 hives n making the aliens WORK/teamwork/teamplay to get their hive(s) back.Or ya could be seiging 2 hives locking them down to stage an allout last assault on last hive rush or whatever.

The bad part: Can't rush in "PLAINLY" lmg's/hmg's/nades that they need to build a phase and tf then seiges as a last resort.

Overall like I said it's both good and bad,I kinda like it.

Rydog · June 2004

i think it is because marines often only take maybe 2 minutes to set up normal turrets, then comes a phase then the entire army is outside this one place where the aliens all have to run back and the time they do sieges are alreay up. The only way khara can stop a siege is if they have an onos when they are starting to build the siege. If there is no onos or fade while they are building the siege it is almost impossible to stop unless the builders are complete newbs.

Maveric · June 2004

if you have heavy armor with 3/3, MT, HMGs and GLs and the aliens only have one hive left and you got a PG up there...

<span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>JUST RUSH THE DAMN HIVE ROOM!</span>

Honest to god, get some balls and attack the hive. You're just drawning out the game needlessly. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' />

However, on the other side of the spectrum, if the aliens have three hives and onos are everywhere and you've tried 5 times to attack the hive with each failing misserably... then seiging the thing out is a good idea to try to bring it down quickly and remove those xenocide skulks from the gameplay factor.

Insomnia · June 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maveric @ Jun 13 2004, 10:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> if you have heavy armor with 3/3, MT, HMGs and GLs and the aliens only have one hive left and you got a PG up there...

<span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>JUST RUSH THE DAMN HIVE ROOM!</span>

Honest to god, get some balls and attack the hive. You're just drawning out the game needlessly. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' />

However, on the other side of the spectrum, if the aliens have three hives and onos are everywhere and you've tried 5 times to attack the hive with each failing misserably... then seiging the thing out is a good idea to try to bring it down quickly and remove those xenocide skulks from the gameplay factor.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Put 2 ocs + desperate aliens in a hive room. Your average pub marine team, with all that crap will DIE

Ajurian · June 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maveric @ Jun 13 2004, 10:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> if you have heavy armor with 3/3, MT, HMGs and GLs and the aliens only have one hive left and you got a PG up there...

<span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>JUST RUSH THE DAMN HIVE ROOM!</span>

Honest to god, get some balls and attack the hive. You're just drawning out the game needlessly. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I second that.

If the last hive is full of ocs then fine. But often Im seeing commanders sieging unbuilt hives which have 1 or 2 scared gorges sitting nearby.

XCan · June 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ajurian @ Jun 14 2004, 09:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> If the last hive is full of ocs then fine. But often Im seeing commanders sieging unbuilt hives which have 1 or 2 scared gorges sitting nearby.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
HAhaha, and I guess those gorges poo themselves. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /> No but honestly, I guess you sieged their last hive during end game with heavy advantage to you. I know I get annoyed when a HA train decides to siege out our last hive with a bunch of skulks who btw die in 3 HMG bullets.....

Skydancer · June 2004

Sieges are not coward. Aliens are fast enough to come back to every sieged location if it hasn't more than 3 sieges (which most farms don't have). If you get sieged and don't have fades nor oni that's your fault, aside from letting the marines siege you. Sieges usually don't come until the first fade showed up (and only on rushed marine games). That means marines are LA/Shot at the best, 1 fade and skulks will rape them this early <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' />.

TOmekki · June 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Insomnia @ Jun 13 2004, 11:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Put 2 ocs + desperate aliens in a hive room. Your average pub marine team, with all that crap will DIE</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
your average pub marine team sucks. your average pub marine team shouldnt have won the game at all, if they lose the last battle to 1 hive skulks.

Wirhe · June 2004

Sieges are the corner-stone of marine assaults and have been ever since from the first release; I don't see anything cowardly in them -only the ninja-tactics can get (...got...) on my nerves at times (and that is because NO ONE is paying a damn heed when saying that there one marine building a pg + tf).

Anakyn_Skywalker · June 2004

Siege are not coward at all, if used when needed. This cannons can´t be built as fast as turrets, so when the first siege appears, fades will be there to and when they hear "our hive is under attack" they´ll come for sure. The difficulty of placing a siege is that you have to protect the place, and if this sulks reinforce in this hive + some fade or lerks shooting spores and unmbra they shuld be quick enough to kill the marines and then just bite the siege.

Buggy · June 2004

Sieging is inefficient as hell. 80% of the time pubber aliens arent paying attention and a couple of shotguns will do the job 5 times faster.

BobTheJanitor · June 2004

Sieges are the counter for lamed out hives. Only use them as needed. If you can get a PG up outside the hive, drop shotguns and get 5 marines in there, the hive will go down before they have to reload. Only siege if there's so much lame that you can't do anything else.

And it's not cowardly or overpowered. If you've got someone watching your hives, no marine should manage to sneak a PG. Even if they do, they should NEVER manage to get PG, upgraded tfac, and sieges up before they've been noticed, unless your team is just totally distracted. Then you just keep rushing them until the siege base is down, it's that simple.

Recoup · June 2004

Are you forgetting something guys?

ARE YOU FORGETTING SOMETHING?!

We STILL have an alien team you know! They still have players on that team! And at that, that means you can still COUNTER the attack with those PLAYERS on that TEAM! For christs sake, if the enemy actually fights his way CLOSE ENOUGH to set up siege turrets and a phase gate, the alien team STILL has the ability to COUNTER ATTACK the marine sieging ability. Simple: They start building, you start attacking them. If you're hive is killed, then you know what? It's your own damned fault. You didnt defend well enough, your team was incompetent, and in the end, you deserved to get sieged because you just holed yourselves up and didnt come out. What loser would expect to win if they just sit on defense all day, huh?

ekent · June 2004

If you give the marines the 2 minutes it takes to set up phases, turrets, adv. factory, and sieges, maybe you deserve to lose the hive in the first place. I've seen plenty of skulk rushes win the day, especially when the siege base is gassed liberally. If they have had you trapped in your hive for the last 5-10 minutes while they teched heavy even though they didn't need it to finish, maybe you should have considered conceding politely and f4ing. That way maybe next time the comm will try to finish it faster, anyway.

Silverwing · June 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Jun 14 2004, 11:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Sieges are the counter for lamed out hives. Only use them as needed. If you can get a PG up outside the hive, drop shotguns and get 5 marines in there, the hive will go down before they have to reload. Only siege if there's so much lame that you can't do anything else.
 </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Wrong. In PUB games this would happen: PG comes up, 5 sg's are dropped, 10 rines mill around for a couple of minutes, then the humping starts, PG is eaten...

IF you are so lucky to be able to lure the marines into hive, they will simply spawnkill until they are all dead from the occational lucky skulk.

Apart from that part, you are dead right.

Salvation · June 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gerald R Ford @ Jun 13 2004, 09:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> it's fine. if your team allowed itself to be sieged, then you're the ones to blame.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
eclacty

Petco · June 2004

Usally in public games I see the marines they don't follow orders and just stay in rine start on the alien team. Sieges maybe could turn into like a support thing like for taking out OCs DCs and so but don't do well damage to the hive and marines can go in. It would be better in my opinion.

Sky · June 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Salvation @ Jun 14 2004, 03:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gerald R Ford @ Jun 13 2004, 09:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> it's fine. if your team allowed itself to be sieged, then you're the ones to blame. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
eclacty  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
best...spelling...evar!

DC_Darkling · June 2004

Sieges are fine. If you can get a TF up, upgrade, put sieges, and then either ping or spot the hive you had alot of time. If they neevr spotted you, THERE the n00bs. If they did but could not stop you, you were winning whihc makes them n00bs aswell if they nag about it.

If they do not like sieges let them place OCs strategicly on siege areas

Quietstorm · June 2004

Yeah if the Aliens couldn't stop the siege they need more practice and/or teamwork. Aliens have plenty of time to rush in, slaughter the marines that are building and stop the TF from upgrading. I say Sieges are just fine, and an excellent way to even a game or end it.

coris · June 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Salvation @ Jun 14 2004, 09:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gerald R Ford @ Jun 13 2004, 09:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> it's fine. if your team allowed itself to be sieged, then you're the ones to blame. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
eclacty </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Well, TBH its really easy to set up an siege outpost with a pg and some turrets if you know how to aim, especially if the spawn que is long.

Its pretty hard in a scrim if they have two hives though, bilebombrush <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

EDIT: Forgot, there are a lot of places in a lot of maps that are basiclly just long halways where you can siege (sub-hive in veil for exampel) where one LMG can hold an entire team of skulks off.

Commander_JAG · June 2004

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' /> cannons are fine. They are good for plowing your way through buildings and stuff. If marines seige a hive its the aliens fault for letting them get close enough to do it.

Now, If you want to get rid of Sieges then there is only 1 way to even out the game. Give the marines GLs with an unupgraded armory. That way they can kill buildings as effectively but they have to see them to do it.

7Bistromath · June 2004

Sieges still fail often enough that I'd call it a risky option. Depending on your equipment, it may in fact be the riskier one.

No, the only time when sieging has any "ethical" value attached with it at all is when you do it the way <i>I</i> do it. You see, I have a nasty habit of having my marines walk into the hive room and destroy everything in sight except the hive, so I can give it a twenty-one gun salute from point-blank. And that friends, is just wrong.

Ajurian · June 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wirhe @ Jun 14 2004, 06:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> (and that is because NO ONE is paying a damn heed when saying that there one marine building a pg + tf).  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Me: marine outside our hive
Team:...
Me: marine building a phase
Team:...
Me: PHASE GOING UP OUTSIDE OUR HIVE!
Team:...?
Me: PHASE UP AND TF BEING BUILT! THEY ARE GONNA SIEGE
Team: eh?
Me: SIEGES BUILT!
<Our hive is under attack>
Team: oh hey they are attacking the hive
Me:...
<Hive dies>
Team: FFS WHY DIDNT ANYONE DO ANYTHING!
Me: -_-"

Has Sieging Hives Become A Coward Action?

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