N -word Blacks/white
Bugler
Join Date: 2003-09-04 Member: 20561Members
Join Date: 2003-09-04 Member: 20561Members
<div class="IPBDescription">who can and who cant</div> this is a follow up thread to the other one- but since that one dealt primarily with usage of the nword by anyone, ill bring up a different issue without derailing them.
Is it acceptable for blacks to use the nword? (this argument assumes its not ok for whites)
I would say absolutely not. Although when using a racial slur AS that race removes the insulting context and turns it into a joke, it furthers the use of the word among other groups. Just think, no one would even think about saying the nword if it wasnt used in every other rap song, or other pop culture items.
For example- a 5year old probably cant differentiate between whats acceptable for black people to say, and white people to say. You sit him down in front of Pulp Fiction, i wouldnt be suprised if he used the nword afterwords.
If this is really such a horrible term, then lets strick it from society. However, this cant happen as long as its accepted that blacks openly use it.
Is it acceptable for blacks to use the nword? (this argument assumes its not ok for whites)
I would say absolutely not. Although when using a racial slur AS that race removes the insulting context and turns it into a joke, it furthers the use of the word among other groups. Just think, no one would even think about saying the nword if it wasnt used in every other rap song, or other pop culture items.
For example- a 5year old probably cant differentiate between whats acceptable for black people to say, and white people to say. You sit him down in front of Pulp Fiction, i wouldnt be suprised if he used the nword afterwords.
If this is really such a horrible term, then lets strick it from society. However, this cant happen as long as its accepted that blacks openly use it.
Comments
This is very complicated.
Yes its ok for my black friends to say it to me, and not the white ones. Its like someone trying to come into the crew and trying to act like your friend.
Nigg-a is like "dawg" "or even pal"
You have to know the culture to know the word.
For example, I have a non-black friend (dont know what he is ) and we call him nigg-a sometimes, and he says it around us.
But if he went into another circle of guys (black) and said it, he would probably get beat down.
Its an unwrittten code, and its not confusing if your involved in it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
he said it best.
It is not exactly a cut and dry usage.
I (being as white as they come )don't use the wrod. Even if my black friends used the word I still wouldn't.
My family is from the south originaly, however they were the one group of people that is never covered in history, the white, middle class. non-slave owners.
I was brought up with my parents views of racial equality, and I just can't imagine using a word like that (even if it is a dirivitive of it).
I jsut realy don't like prejudice and racism, hey I am from NYC, peing a racist isn't such a good idea there <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
OK I am half taiwanese. I picked up C&C Generals back when it came out, and I thought the Chinese voices were hilarious! The accents were all overdone. So I was showing it to people, I had the sound as my AIM buddy icon, and everything. Then my sister, who is more learned than me in these affairs, told me that even though I'm of the same race, and it seems to be funny, really it is perpetuating a stereotype of Chinese people with misprononuced "Rs" and other things.
Back to the n-word, I think it's important for nobody to use it, because having certain words off-limits reminds people that racism and offensive prejudice is still a real thing. If you can be as racist as you want, how can you differentiate what is racist and what is commonplace language?
In some ways, use of the word by blacks "defuses" it -- they have embraced it as slang between them, rather than hating/fearing it as a derogatory word. There's actually a similar sentiment among some feminist groups towards various words for female genitalia -- society has labeled these words "dirty," and as a result the female genitalia themselves end up with a negative stigma. By "reclaiming" words like these that are commonly used in negative context (e.g. c**t), they seek to regain control of their role in society.
I don't have a problem with it. Frankly, I look forward to the day when a white person can say it with equal freedom.
did you read my copy of BigBull's post?
YES it is a double standard.
In a perfect world the word wouldn't exist in the first place.
but as Bull pointed out, nigg-a and nigg-er are different words and have different conotations.
Do I tihnk bad things could come out of it? Yes, thus part of the reason why I will never use nigg-er or nigg-a out side of conversation where is is pertinent to the topic.
However, this is also America, Land of Free Speech. And 'banning' a word is just wrong, flat out.
There are places where it is inapropriate to use it (public TV, These forums, a classroom etc), however, no word should ever be banned.
If you wan't to know why just go read the other open topic on the exact same discussion.
Read the book Black Boy by Richard Wright. It takes place in the 30's and a bit in the 20's if I remember... and gives a verry good explanation IMO of why Affrican Americans started using the word and eventually how it evolved into what it is today.
The n-word that ends in er is totally un-acceptable now and is a hatefull word, the a onw is not generally speaking...
sorry if I seem jaded, but I've had this already had this discussion so much I'm sick of it. ¬_¬
I use the N words, I live in an area where being ghetto can be construed as 'coo' and when I'm with that social group it's accepted and not even thought about.
I don't say it around when I'm not kicking it with the homies, I'm not racist. I had like a 2 hour long discussion on this exact topic at a club retreat for the random acts of kindness club [I was VP, GG excellent resume padding for college and I enjoy helping people but that is besides the point] it was a heated debate that surely would have been locked, we talked and talked and talked about it, but got no where. A word only has as much power as you give it.
Also there are different connotations
"Your a nigg-er" is completely unacceptable, you say that to anyone and you will get the isht kicked out of you in a second, but
"whasup my nigga?" well likley illicit the response of "aint sh-- crackin at all" and happens all the time
oh and ^^ to coils and big bulls posts
Do you really want to say somehting so that you can fit in?
Ive never gotten ahold of that mystery.
Do you really want to say somehting so that you can fit in?
Ive never gotten ahold of that mystery. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you really want to say somehting so that you can fit in?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sadly, some do <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> Personally tho, as I said, I don't use it... It just sounds odd to me when white people use it...
The "n-word" is exactly the same way, if you are a white guy using it improperly (er rather than a) people will take it differnently than if your a black guy using it as a greeting. The essance of slang is that it has no offical definition, the words even often contain a mood rather than a meaning.
For one word, there is many definitions and variations of the word.
It will never end, all people can try to do is mind thier buisness if it effects them that bad lol/
If it's not intended to be a derogatory term, and used among friends, then i don't see what's wrong with it.
But when it's used as a derogatory term, thats when it starts getting ugly.
even if you dont mean to hurt/annoy anyone, you're probably best <i>not</i> saying it to anyone you don't know, or you may ned up with one less limb than you previously had before
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't feel bad, those voices were just funny, period.
"I build for China"
"China's rocket soldier"
I think they did it on purpose.
To the people that say its ridiculous to ban a word, well, for all defacto practical purposes, it IS banned for whites, in public anyone... I agree with the guy that used the C&C example.... it trivializes it, when its anything but that.
To argue over saying N|GGER versus N|GGA is just dumb..... many people wouldnt know the difference- additionally, i know many black peopel that would be offended if i called them a N|GGA, even though you all call that non-offensive.
To the people that say its ridiculous to ban a word, well, for all defacto practical purposes, it IS banned for whites, in public anyone... I agree with the guy that used the C&C example.... it trivializes it, when its anything but that.
To argue over saying N|GGER versus N|GGA is just dumb..... many people wouldnt know the difference- additionally, i know many black peopel that would be offended if i called them a N|GGA, even though you all call that non-offensive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty much what I said in my post, like most slang, there is double standards involved in the use of the word; it will mean different things to different people dependant on the context it is used in (and who is using it). The word has no concreate definition.
To the people that say its ridiculous to ban a word, well, for all defacto practical purposes, it IS banned for whites, in public anyone... I agree with the guy that used the C&C example.... it trivializes it, when its anything but that.
To argue over saying N|GGER versus N|GGA is just dumb..... many people wouldnt know the difference- additionally, i know many black peopel that would be offended if i called them a N|GGA, even though you all call that non-offensive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
nigg-a and nigg-er ARE what you are reffering to.
and if you read the post that I copied from Bull, then you would get the general gist (aka first reply).
Blacks don't use nigg-er (generaly).
Nigg-a can be used by nonblacks but only amongst their close friends (and only then sometimes)
YES it is a double standerd.
however, this is Real Life, the exist and always will, thus we gotta live with em.
Positive discrimination sucks.
they call everyone ,white, black, doesnt matter "nigg-a". even the police.
Here I am, an asian guy, with 2 white female officers, and another from hawaii, getting called nigg-a by some self proclaimed "drug dealing, white kid from the hood" as he blabbers on about how many times hes been arrested before, the police always harrassing him etc.
He then goes off trying to start a fight with 2 other individuals, one black another white.
This then angers the white kid (who is a waist size 30 but hes wearing waist size 48 shorts to make them look more baggy.. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
And there goes the second white kid trying to step up and fight the first white guy all the while calling him "nigg-a" and trying to fight him while trying to hold up his shorts with his handcuffed hands,
but you see, it works both ways, then there are blacks calling everyone cracker etc.
When you get down too it, people call everyone anything, it doest matter what race you are. friend circles or no friend circles.
In my expirience its more "where your from, then "what you are."
And what do i say as I see both whites and blacks calling anyone and everyone and themselves nigg-a or cracker including me (who is niether black or white)
"Sir, shut the hell up and face the wall."
As a (white) minority in Washington, D.C., it is used heavily by blacks when referring to each other, in both derrogatory and non-derrogatory fashion. And it is never EVER acceptable for any white person to use, despite their relation or close friendships, however, latinos can usually get away with it for no reason whatsoever.
Anyways, it's simply don't know why blacks would want to perpetuate ignorance, segregation and hate by continuing to use it, whatever it's connotation is. Whites usually don't call each other guidos, wops, etc. etc. even if it is part of their ethnicity.
Bill Cosby is a truely brilliant man who shares similar viewpoints to my own, and I really hope that his recent comments are going to become the norm for other leaders in the black community.
Just like in the bad old days there were whites-only bars e.t.c now we're saying this is a blacks-only word?
I know that's a very over-the-top example but you see my point... I hope.
But at the end of the day, yeah. It's just another set of syllables like any other word.
words are words.
Part of the fact probably comes in that I'm in a very white area (with hmong being second and hispanic a close third). There's about one black for every thousand or so people. That mentioned, back in Milwaukee, there was 'Cracker (or Cracka...I suppose), Whitey, Pinky, Snowball, and a number of other 'slang for white people'.
The problem being, no matter how hard someone tries, it's hard to antagonize the average white person with a racial slur. Unless your directly speaking to someone in a derogatory tone - no one cares. They're all racial slurs that don't carry weight. You could argue that **** has centuries of pent up abuse, slavery and mistreatment - but words like [slur generalizing hispanic persuasion] and [slur generalizing asian persuasion] are viewed just as harshly (if not more so around here, since blacks are a very slim minority).
[edit: but not on these boards apparently...heh. Maybe they're regional slurs]
The words are still just symbols. I think it's just the way people are brought up (along with the media's hiding of words (swears and racial slurs) that continues to make words taboo.
I actually label people based on the most efficient method- while Caucasian is the most descriptive word for a white...they're white. African American goes with blacks (...really...that just annoys me. Why don't I go around and call myself German-Norwegian Caucasian dude, and force everyone to write it out as such?), mexicans are hispanics (really no change in efficiency there, but it incorporates a larger area, generalizing the general latin area). Asians can be slightly harder, since here it's a sure bet they're from Laos, Cambodia or Vietnam (or surrrounding countries), and generally known as Hmong, but then if you go to California, you're probably just better going with Asian.
[You'd think it would be Caucasian American...since we're all apparently from the Caucus...people should know our citizenship lies across an ocean <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ]
Just like general swears are forbidden in schools, if a word wants to be forbidden in society, I don't really care. That's what languages people can't understand are for. If you swear at someone in German, and they only speak English...well, who cares? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> (speaking of that, in school, the monitors (people who watch the kids at lunch and at the entrances to school) were given a list of many swears in Spanish to look out for - hilarity ensued).
Once the entire black community (I'm sure some of the other races will need to reevaluate their definitions too) is ready to realize the only the people using racial slurs in a derogatory manner are racists...well, then they can get over years of oppression caused by egotistical, misinformed, overly capitalistic Europeans, Americans and colonists.
[There's always going to be a little racial bias, but the more you point it out, the more emphasized it gets.]
...Personally...I don't need the word, so what's the point?
Only white people should be able to say it, and black people should be forbidden to use the word.
You are not allowed to disagree.
I do realize that this opens the question of why blacks gravitate towards this identity, which of course brings up the issue of slavery.
However, slavery is long gone, and so we are left with the fact that black Americans, in particular, make their identity intimate with their skin color, something which most jesus loving conservative Republicans can't grasp the concept of.
Thus, calling someone a nigg-er is attacking their identity. If you attack what I am, I will kill you. If you attack someone elses identity, what they are, they will kill you. I'm being extreme here, but you get the general idea. Blacks in America, because so much of their part in American history has been related to their skin color, have had their "blackness" so much ingrained that they find it difficult to move beyond something as trivial as skin color.
This also brings us to another interesting part: why do so many white kids gravitate towards black culture? It's quite simple: black culture, because it is so strongly ingrained in much of the black community, particularly the ghetto portions, is extremely strong/masculine, with a strong emphasis on an in-your-face attitude that is very appealing to many, many young people.
On the other hand, whites, as a whole, do not have one core in American culture. Since the old cultural cores (christianity, ethnicity, etc) have faded, white youth are continually searching for identity. It makes sense that a certain percentage would get involved with black culture.
So, now that we've covered the background and reasoning that is going on, we are left with basically two options:
A.) Leave the larger issues of identity alone, because breaking down old barriers doesn't really matter.
B.) Helping bridge gaps and give everyone in America things to commonly identify with, so that cultural and racial identity slips from American life.
Hmmm....curious options.
Edit: I do believe, as I gaze at this post, that perhaps in some areas I have oversimplified, for the sake of this thread. If you would like me to connect the dots better, PM me and I'll clear up anything I'm able to.