<!--QuoteBegin-B33F+Jun 19 2004, 09:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (B33F @ Jun 19 2004, 09:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Think like a lazy engineer: .9 is close enough to 1.
<a href='http://www.phy.ilstu.edu/~rfm/EPMjokes.html' target='_blank'>http://www.phy.ilstu.edu/~rfm/EPMjokes.html</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Great stuff. My brother always comes home with a few of these.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A mathematician, a biologist and a physicist are sitting in a street cafe watching people going in and coming out of the house on the other side of the street. First they see two people going into the house. Time passes. After a while they notice three persons coming out of the house. The physicist: "The measurement wasn't accurate." The biologist: "They have reproduced". The mathematician: "If now exactly one person enters the house then it will be empty again."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Gold. I ought to show my old Biology teacher that, he would be in stitches (figuratively).
[WHO]ThemYou can call me DaveJoin Date: 2002-12-11Member: 10593Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-007Bistromath+Jun 19 2004, 08:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (007Bistromath @ Jun 19 2004, 08:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> At the end of an infinitely long string <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And that's what we call an oxymoron. There is no end to something that's infinite.
these are the lecture notes from the first semester reasoning course of my first year at university, infinite decimals are explained on page 30 (chapter 16) enjoy.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
Then again how can we get anything?
0.000000000000.....
we cant even get to 0.000000000001
Its everything or nothing. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Private_ColemanPhD in Video GamesJoin Date: 2002-11-07Member: 7510Members
This is such a fascinating conversation <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
these are the lecture notes from the first semester reasoning course of my first year at university, infinite decimals are explained on page 30 (chapter 16) enjoy. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Whoever wrote that, pulled it right out of their ****.
It's very reminiscent of reading about O (read "big oh") notation.
Only if you round upwards. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> [then again, you can't really round a infinate number upwards... i think <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo--> ]
the additive inverse of 0.999 repeating is zero, or infinitely close to zero (really, infinite zeroes with a one on the end, which as you have said is impossible, and therefore it is only an infinite string of zeroes....)
so, anyway, [WHO]Them, be careful you arent dividing off a zero in your counter-proof. because then its fun and easy to prove any number equals another, if you mask the dividing by zero behind a variable as such with your S.
[WHO]ThemYou can call me DaveJoin Date: 2002-12-11Member: 10593Members, Constellation
edited June 2004
<!--QuoteBegin-ZiGGY^+Jun 19 2004, 08:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZiGGY^ @ Jun 19 2004, 08:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think youre both missing the fact that I posted the proof and you should all SUYF. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That was only a proof by it's own definition.
E.G. <!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1--> I declare 3 to be equal to 5.
0.33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 (with about a billion more 3s) is an approximation and 0.<u>333</u> is a representation of 1/3
since 0.<u>333</u> is a representation of 3^-1 (1/3) and 3*(3^-1) = 1 0 * 0.<u>333</u> is a representation of 3*(3^-1) that means that 0.<u>999</u> is a representation of 1
you fail to realize one thing 0.<u>333</u> is not a decimal number as infinity does not exist (it is a representation of a real number, a picture if you will)
<!--QuoteBegin-ZiGGY^+Jun 19 2004, 10:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZiGGY^ @ Jun 19 2004, 10:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1/3 is a FRACTION/POLYNOMIAL , it is NOT an infinite decimal <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> there are no infinite decimals as proven by einstein
<!--QuoteBegin-Albert Einstein+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Albert Einstein)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>*all things "I Gorged Your Mom" has said in this thread are in no may shape or form his own thoughts or opinions, he only started this because... well because he felt like it.*</span>
douchebagatronCustom member titleJoin Date: 2003-12-20Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
edited June 2004
.<u>99</u> does not = 1.
lets see if i can whip out some of my calculus to prove it.
well first of all i can use some of my church teachings to give some proof perhaps.
the human mind is unable to completely comprehend infinite anything. (insert talk about how Jesus and God were infinite here)
we cannot define .99 with infinite repeating 9s as 1, because most people do not realize that infinite means never ending! yes they might know it, but they think well it would round up to 1. it wouldnt round up to one because if you round it then you approximate it. if you dont round it then it stays .99 with repeating 9s.
there is my philisophical proof, lets see if i can get some mathematical.
hmm i duno if this is understood by anyone, or even if it proves anything
1/(1-x)
you cannot plug in 1 because that would make it 1/0, an undefined function.
but, if you plugged in the number .9999999999999999999999999999 then you would NOT have an undefined function.
because, of course, .99999999999999999999999999999999999 does not equal 1
There is a similar problem to this. Imagine the distance between point A and B is say, two feet. Now, pretend an object is resting at point A, and point B is the destination. The distance the object can travel is half the total remaining distance between point A and point B. The fact is, because numbers are infinite, they can be infinitely halved: the object will never reach point B.
It's the same with this - the number can never reach 1, because there is no limit to numbers past the decimal point. Rounding up is used to simplify the problem with infinity, but it does not mean that .9 = 1.
Just divide the left side by 8933490320 + 9040340348993488934983498 and the right side by 1 SEE HOW SIMPLE IT IS<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He isn't using circular logic, you are. He first defines x = 0.9999..., this is not what he is trying to prove. You can allways multiply, divide, add or subtract a number from both sides if you wish, this changes nothing if they are equal, and per definition we know x = 0.999.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I never said he was using circular logic, I implied that he wasn't using algebra. You cannot under any circumstances do different operations to different sides of the equation.
[WHO]ThemYou can call me DaveJoin Date: 2002-12-11Member: 10593Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Jun 19 2004, 09:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Jun 19 2004, 09:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There is a similar problem to this. Imagine the distance between point A and B is say, two feet. Now, pretend an object is resting at point A, and point B is the destination. The distance the object can travel is half the total remaining distance between point A and point B. The fact is, because numbers are infinite, they can be infinitely halved: the object will never reach point B.
It's the same with this - the number can never reach 1, because there is no limit to numbers past the decimal point. Rounding up is used to simplify the problem with infinity, but it does not mean that .9 = 1. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's called a limit, and has been stated previously.
Comments
<a href='http://www.phy.ilstu.edu/~rfm/EPMjokes.html' target='_blank'>http://www.phy.ilstu.edu/~rfm/EPMjokes.html</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Great stuff. My brother always comes home with a few of these.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A mathematician, a biologist and a physicist are sitting in a street cafe watching people going in and coming out of the house on the other side of the street. First they see two people going into the house. Time passes. After a while they notice three persons coming out of the house.
The physicist: "The measurement wasn't accurate."
The biologist: "They have reproduced".
The mathematician: "If now exactly one person enters the house then it will be empty again."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gold. I ought to show my old Biology teacher that, he would be in stitches (figuratively).
Multiplication by X, by definition, is a number added to itself X many times.
Consider the case of 0.<u>9999</u> multiplied by 2....
You get a number that is just slightly less than 2, everyone conceptually knows this to be true, but here's where your problem comes up.....
0.999 * 2 = 1.998
0.9999 * 2 = 1.9998
In the case of 0.<u>9999</u> * 2, WHERE IN THE HELL DID YOU JUST PUT THAT 8??!??!??!?!??!?!?!?
IN THE BURNING DEPTHS OF HELL, WHERE BAD MATHEMATICIANS GO, THAT'S WHERE!
That sounds like something some guru might tell you when you get to the top of a mountain.
And that's what we call an oxymoron. There is no end to something that's infinite.
these are the lecture notes from the first semester reasoning course of my first year at university, infinite decimals are explained on page 30 (chapter 16) enjoy.
0.000000000000.....
we cant even get to 0.000000000001
Its everything or nothing. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
these are the lecture notes from the first semester reasoning course of my first year at university, infinite decimals are explained on page 30 (chapter 16) enjoy. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whoever wrote that, pulled it right out of their ****.
It's very reminiscent of reading about O (read "big oh") notation.
Only if you round upwards. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[then again, you can't really round a infinate number upwards... i think <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo--> ]
so, anyway, [WHO]Them, be careful you arent dividing off a zero in your counter-proof. because then its fun and easy to prove any number equals another, if you mask the dividing by zero behind a variable as such with your S.
.<u>22</u> =2/9
.<u>33</u> =1/3=3/9
(skip some)
.<u>77</u> =7/9
.<u>88</u> =8/9
<b>.<u>99</u> =9/9</b>
9/9=1
.<u>22</u> =2/9
.<u>33</u> =1/3=3/9
(skip some)
.<u>77</u> =7/9
.<u>88</u> =8/9
<b>.<u>99</u> =9/9</b>
9/9=1 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're missing one critical fact there, everything except "9/9 = 1" is an APPROXIMATION
If you simply want to say that 0.<u>9999</u> is approximately 1, then we have no problems.
That was only a proof by it's own definition.
E.G.
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
I declare 3 to be equal to 5.
Now let's check....
3 = 5 , using the rule above, this is true.
PROVEN
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
Not knowing anything never stopped anyone from writing stuff like what you posted ziggy
1/3 does not have an exact decimal value.
0.33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 (with about a billion more 3s) is an approximation
and 0.<u>333</u> is a representation of 1/3
since 0.<u>333</u> is a representation of 3^-1 (1/3) and 3*(3^-1) = 1
0 * 0.<u>333</u> is a representation of 3*(3^-1)
that means that 0.<u>999</u> is a representation of 1
you fail to realize one thing 0.<u>333</u> is not a decimal number as infinity does not exist (it is a representation of a real number, a picture if you will)
gg algebra 1
there are no infinite decimals as proven by einstein
<!--QuoteBegin-Albert Einstein+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Albert Einstein)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
.<u>22</u> =2/9
.<u>33</u> =1/3=3/9
(skip some)
.<u>77</u> =7/9
.<u>88</u> =8/9
<b>.<u>99</u> =9/9</b>
9/9=1 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bah! Thief! And you can't even copy/paste right!
It is intriguing nonetheless.
lets see if i can whip out some of my calculus to prove it.
well first of all i can use some of my church teachings to give some proof perhaps.
the human mind is unable to completely comprehend infinite anything. (insert talk about how Jesus and God were infinite here)
we cannot define .99 with infinite repeating 9s as 1, because most people do not realize that infinite means never ending! yes they might know it, but they think well it would round up to 1. it wouldnt round up to one because if you round it then you approximate it. if you dont round it then it stays .99 with repeating 9s.
there is my philisophical proof, lets see if i can get some mathematical.
hmm i duno if this is understood by anyone, or even if it proves anything
1/(1-x)
you cannot plug in 1 because that would make it 1/0, an undefined function.
but, if you plugged in the number .9999999999999999999999999999 then you would NOT have an undefined function.
because, of course, .99999999999999999999999999999999999 does not equal 1
you cannot plug in 1 because that would make it 1/0, an undefined function.
but, if you plugged in the number .9999999999999999999999999999 then you would NOT have an undefined function.
because, of course, .99999999999999999999999999999999999 does not equal 1<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's circular logic. You're saying that you can't put 1 in because it would be undefined. That's true.
Then, you are saying that .9repeating wouldn't make it undefined- that step is assuming that it doesn't equal 1 which is what you're trying to prove.
It's the same with this - the number can never reach 1, because there is no limit to numbers past the decimal point. Rounding up is used to simplify the problem with infinity, but it does not mean that .9 = 1.
Yes you can.
Just divide the left side by 8933490320 + 9040340348993488934983498 and the right side by 1 SEE HOW SIMPLE IT IS<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He isn't using circular logic, you are. He first defines x = 0.9999..., this is not what he is trying to prove. You can allways multiply, divide, add or subtract a number from both sides if you wish, this changes nothing if they are equal, and per definition we know x = 0.999.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never said he was using circular logic, I implied that he wasn't using algebra. You cannot under any circumstances do different operations to different sides of the equation.
It's the same with this - the number can never reach 1, because there is no limit to numbers past the decimal point. Rounding up is used to simplify the problem with infinity, but it does not mean that .9 = 1. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's called a limit, and has been stated previously.