<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm on ns_eclipse, I go down a hallway and a marine is already there. What do I do? Sorry, no ambushing now, I have to fight, and he kills me at range. If I went back and hid around the corner, he'd know - even the most newbie marine would be cautious when he goes after me or won't go after me at all. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if you went back around the corner and hid, he'd just die of laughing, you dont need to fight...
go around him...you should know the map (especially eclipse) easily, and most importantly, parasite him.
He's not doing any good just camping in a hallway, there's probably a way around him, you dont NEED to kill him...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The skulks are rushing the marine spawn - they have no choice but to fight them, hiding will only give them more time to prepare.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why are skulks rushing to marine spawn in the first place? you end the game with fades (or onos if you're crazy and weird) not skulks...The only time you should be skulk rushing base is if one marine, or no marines are there
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Skulks will be forced to do head to head engagements against marines, you can't avoid it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, they won't, and you can avoid it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->wow all that just to kill one freaking marine? Pretty sad stuff. He doesn't need any teamwork to splatter you all over the wall. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
skulks move around the map tons faster than a marine, if you can kill a marine deep inside the map, then 3-4 skulks is more than worth stopping all expansion so deep inside.
<span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span> If you have to hide and run away from the marines then you have already lost the game. Post me a demo where the entire team of skulks does what you said.
And no, WTH, you cant be flanking them and going around. Often times a hallway, in order for you to come behind, would require you making a huge detour around, and you WILL run into other marines. And of course the guy will hear you comming.
Basically what you are saying is that for every marine you kill you have to parasite them? Please.
And marines dont have to flank or ambush or anything, they just go and they shoot you.
<!--QuoteBegin-Harpoon+Jun 26 2004, 11:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Harpoon @ Jun 26 2004, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span> If you have to hide and run away from the marines then you have already lost the game. Post me a demo where the entire team of skulks does what you said.
And no, WTH, you cant be flanking them and going around. Often times a hallway, in order for you to come behind, would require you making a huge detour around, and you WILL run into other marines. And of course the guy will hear you comming.
Basically what you are saying is that for every marine you kill you have to parasite them? Please.
And marines dont have to flank or ambush or anything, they just go and they shoot you. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> lol...go to www.amped-news.com and download ANY ns demo. If a skulk can't ambush a marine, he runs.
<!--QuoteBegin-Harpoon+Jun 26 2004, 09:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Harpoon @ Jun 26 2004, 09:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> wow all that just to kill one freaking marine? Pretty sad stuff. He doesn't need any teamwork to splatter you all over the wall. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you aren't prepared to play the game effectively to the way it was designed then <span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span> What you described as impossible is very possible, it is practiced every day by people with experience/a brain and I hope the CAL demos show you this. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And no, WTH, you cant be flanking them and going around. Often times a hallway, in order for you to come behind, would require you making a huge detour around, and you WILL run into other marines. And of course the guy will hear you comming.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You probably won't run into marines actually, if you go in a route towards the hives, not towards MS. And a huge detour, for a skulk, isn't very large at all...Also, if you bhop (the subject of the thread in the first place), you can get there faster...
...Oh what's this? A place where bunnyhopping is used out of combat?! Proposterous!
Also, there's a button that's bound to walking...."+speed"...For most people it's shift, and it isn't hard to use it, if you'd like for people not to hear you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Basically what you are saying is that for every marine you kill you have to parasite them? Please.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Press 2. Press mouse1. Press 1. Begin attack as normal.
However you might not even need to do this if you're coming from the back and they don't know you're there, seeing as their survivability rate is so low...Unless they have armor 3 or something...
<!--QuoteBegin-IceBaron+Jun 26 2004, 09:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (IceBaron @ Jun 26 2004, 09:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Harpoon+Jun 26 2004, 11:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Harpoon @ Jun 26 2004, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span> If you have to hide and run away from the marines then you have already lost the game. Post me a demo where the entire team of skulks does what you said.
And no, WTH, you cant be flanking them and going around. Often times a hallway, in order for you to come behind, would require you making a huge detour around, and you WILL run into other marines. And of course the guy will hear you comming.
Basically what you are saying is that for every marine you kill you have to parasite them? Please.
And marines dont have to flank or ambush or anything, they just go and they shoot you. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> lol...go to www.amped-news.com and download ANY ns demo. If a skulk can't ambush a marine, he runs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Just last night, I was playing a game on nancy where I was 11-2. The rest of my 9-member team had 10 total kills. You know the only reason why? I made the choice to avoid marines right outside my hive and go exploit the weaknesses in marine coverage. I killed all their nodes around the map and any person that was capping. Since all their marines were standing outside sub and happily slaughtering my entire team, I was able to drop port and it completed before the turret factory outside sub was even laid down.
The sad fact is that we would have won if just a couple out of the 8 other skulks would have bothered to take the vent out of sub instead of using the front door. Skulks are not made to compete with marines on a 1-1 basis. They have less hitpoints and no ranged weapons. Either ambush or make the choice to leave that engagement and find a place where <i>you</i> can decide when to fight, not the marine.
Only place early game skulks have advantage over vanilla marines is in the hive room, (well, most hive rooms... some hive rooms are extreamlly marine friendly) which is why marines always camp outside of it, rarely do you see marines charge into the hive room (on pubs, anyways), because they know they have a high chance of losing.
That's why it's generally safe to leave your hive room and sneak around the map because it's much easier to hold the hive room over any part of the map.
kent is teh hero, he capped all the marines res! gg...
Btw, as a side note, if ur teammates really was that noobis. How did they keep the TF outside ur hive "un-put" for aprox. 5-10 minutes, while u were taking down all the rts, and dropping hive? <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo--> And how did you manage to lose once you had up 2nd hive, when you had held them off for so long without any turrets even being built. That must have been some sort of special US-style game, I've never seen anything like that in EU... <!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo-->
edit; <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you have to hide and run away from the marines then you have already lost the game. Post me a demo where the entire team of skulks does what you said.
And no, WTH, you cant be flanking them and going around. Often times a hallway, in order for you to come behind, would require you making a huge detour around, and you WILL run into other marines. And of course the guy will hear you comming.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seriously though, your soo wrong. I havent seen, nor played, any highlevel clan matches where I've seen aliens rushing one marine standing in a corridor by himself doing nothing, and come out the winner. Even so, WHY would you bother to engage him at all? In Clan play, that frag has no value, it's the teams progress that matters. I'd just para him and run to a RT that was underattack or something, never bother with a single marine, unless u have reason to belive he's an "?b3r-N|nJ4-Fr0M-h3||" trying to get to your hive etc.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
I think the point being missed is.....
By the time you reach decent level play, marines are so mobile that frankly the first time you'll probably see that marine camping in some random location is probably when he's either at the chokepoint the marines want to hold anyway, or they're outside your hive.
In either of these situations (as Forlorn pointed out) there's no reason for that marine to 'want' to move. If he's allowed to sit there happily, he's going to win, because his friends are going to turn up and structures are going to start sprouting.
You need him dead, and you need him dead now. And he isn't going to do you the courtesy of wandering under a nice overhang for you to drop on his head from.
On a pubs, if you can get even just three of your teammates into an ambush then youll probably be able to hold them off till you get fades. Assuming youve kept their rts down to a reasonable level the appearance of fades is gg for the rines, as most pub rine teams don't have the coordination to stop a good fade or two. The shotty does need fixing though. There are so many people out there who can kill a skulk or a blinking fade halfway across the room because the shotty dosen't spread.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-kavasa+Jun 28 2004, 09:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kavasa @ Jun 28 2004, 09:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Shock - if you let them get to that point before you have the lerks/fades necessary to dislodge them, bhop won't save you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> kavasa - I didn't mean it in relation to my original comment, more just to counter people going on about ambushing. It's not all it's cracked up to be.
<!--QuoteBegin-LittleToe+Jun 28 2004, 04:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (LittleToe @ Jun 28 2004, 04:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if bh is truely a tool to get around the map faster and not some uber combat move, then why not remove it and up the skulk speed...
or remove it, keep the speed the same and give stamina bar for sprinting (as someone sugested).
(i go run and hide now) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Because those feature's could be used in fighting, making proper use of the aliens possibly far too effective. They're skulks, not mini-tanks. Bh can be used to some good effect in fights, but overall it's not that great.
<!--QuoteBegin-Shockwave+Jun 28 2004, 03:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Jun 28 2004, 03:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think the point being missed is.....
By the time you reach decent level play, marines are so mobile that frankly the first time you'll probably see that marine camping in some random location is probably when he's either at the chokepoint the marines want to hold anyway, or they're outside your hive.
In either of these situations (as Forlorn pointed out) there's no reason for that marine to 'want' to move. If he's allowed to sit there happily, he's going to win, because his friends are going to turn up and structures are going to start sprouting.
You need him dead, and you need him dead now. And he isn't going to do you the courtesy of wandering under a nice overhang for you to drop on his head from.
If it's only one guy, and more guys will be coming soon, supposedly, they have to get through somehow. Which means, through the hallways, in which case you could camp those so no one else gets in...
(this is just an example, it's probably not the greatest thing to do in a real situation.)
Now, if he can't get any backup he'll just move off, or be dropped a phase.
If he's building a phase it's possible for one skulk to run up and kill him, but 2 for good measure is fine too.
And if you don't want to do any of those things you can just rush him with 2 or 3 skulks from all sides.
a good marien (and good placement of the pg) can kill 3+ skulks before reloading (if the hit box gods are on his side), + some meds/amo from the com and you get one very hard to kill marien (because its hard to get more than 3 people to go after 1 marien)
also in this new beta gameplay is faster than the old, if you sit and wate you will lose. ambushing is not that great anymore. mt is so cheap, i see more and more coms going mt first (btw you can still get armor one in nearly the same amount of time). get some nads and your gold, now you dont have to charge into the room right off. when you do you will know where they are because those skulks that are left have moved so as to not get killed by the nads.
the point is you cannt just wate for them to come to you. you cannt rush them ether, do to low speed and hp but at somepoint you will have to rush them. they will get a pg/tf, add some mines to that and 3 siege, you can say good bye to your hive. you may ask where your team was, well i tell you they are off keeping an eye on the rt's/hive locations and siege spots (maybe a few stupidly rushing ms just to get killed time and time again with out doing any real damage) by the time they get to the location they are needed at the time, its to late, the defence is set. if you have 2 hives you can push them back by constently rushing (must have mc) but they get so much rfk they will be back very soon in ha (ha + siege = gg). by that time you have onos but to do any good with the onos you must hit and run (fat cow, too low hp, small hall, add some skulks trying to get throgh to kill base/mariens and you end up with a dead onos) bb siege base with the gorge? please, what a jk.
little more on topic...
i was under the impresion that the speed of the skulk was lowered because raiseing the top speed of the skulk = raiseing the top speed of a bh'er...
im just getting sick of this bh or lose bs that is going on (and the good old if you cannt bh you must suck anyway). i know the developer says bh is fine but he is wrong because not everyone can bh.
fine... if it is truely fine (and the skulk realy is balenced around bh'ing) then code it into the game so all of us can do it...
it should be all or nothing. it cannt sit on the fence because any change to the skulk will make the basic player to weak or the bh'er to strong
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if bh is truely a tool to get around the map faster and not some uber combat move, then why not remove it and up the skulk speed...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This point has been answered so many times. If skulk movement speed is upped, then current skulks vs. current marines will be maddening. You know celerity skulks in combat? You know how hard they can be to hit? You're giving that upgrade to every single skulk for free every single spawn. The stamina bar is a bad idea for a couple reasons. 1. The aliens already have one, the adrenaline bar. Adding a second one for one lifeform is incredibly time consuming and lame. 2. It would still overpower skulks in combat.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->kavasa - I didn't mean it in relation to my original comment, more just to counter people going on about ambushing. It's not all it's cracked up to be.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But ambushing is how you're going to keep the marine from getting to his camping spot in the first place. Honestly the game seems pretty balanced right now. On those occasions when I pub, the better team wins. In clan matches we're starting to see marine ties as often as we see alien ties, and they're both in the minority. It's also a fun, fast game. Bhop is a part of that right now. I wouldn't mind if you took it out of the other evolutions, even the gorge. It is, however, the easiest way to balance the skulk, and I still see no reason not to use it.
What the hell is the difference between a bunny hopping skulk and a slightly faster stock skulk that would make aliens SOOOO uber. Bhopping aliens are as fast and hard to hit as celerity skulks. Celerity, leaping bhop skulks practically travel through worm holes.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bhopping aliens are as fast and <b>hard to hit</b> as celerity skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, they're not. A bhopping skulk coming straight at me from distance will die every time. Generally in 20-25 bullets, sometimes a little under 20, depending on range.
It seems like, for the most part, that the people that hate bunnyhopping so much can't do it, can't figure out (for some reason or another), get frustrated, and then decide to say bhopping sucks and should be out of the game, because they can't learn how to do it.
And Im not even saying anything about LittleToe's post, every single thing he said has already been answered...Not to mention some of it is just wrong...
And if you guys think that bunnhopping is so terrible looking and takes away from the environment and feel of the game, then why in the world are you suggesting a 3rd, "stamina" bar!?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And if you guys think that bunnhopping is so terrible looking and takes away from the environment and feel of the game, then why in the world are you suggesting a 3rd, "stamina" bar!?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because DoD is cool m8 <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
the core of what im saying is bh is hard for a new player to learn in a game that is already hard to learn. to make matters worse the game takes into account that bh is possable, therefore a basic skulk in the hands of someone that cannt bh (which is most players) cannt do any good for their team.
add in leap + bh and you have a skulk that is near impossable to hit.
all in all it makes the game not fun for most new players. few new players = dead mod.
it ether needs to go or be coded in to the game so everyone can do it.
and if you want to bash me and make unfounded comements because i/we "cannt bh therefore want it out". ive got news for you the street goes bothways.
here you go, something little more on your lvl
you just want bh in because it give you and the l33t few an advatage over the average puber.
oh and ty for playing fire arms.
incase you dont know the comparson. the mod died do to explots and bugs that lead to alot of infighting on the boards (not to mention nerfing all the guns). to prevent a simalar thing from happening here i mearly sugest make it a part of the game that everyone can do or get rid of it.
takes deep breath, counts to 10 and remebers the love of the game and the people
bunnyhopping is fun. Sure, it may help you in some situations against brand new players, but once you learn it, you love it. You will just bunnyhop around any empty server and love it. It's like if you have been driving a metro for years and then get a new mustang....you just want to drive.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sandstorm+Jun 23 2004, 11:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sandstorm @ Jun 23 2004, 11:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you can't bhop too well, there's always the hitbox rotation bug that occurs when you wallwalk with skulks. It's easier to kill marines when running around on the walls instead of the ground or air, because your hitbox doesn't match your model. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry, coming to this thread rather late, but this made me "laugh"
"Hey if you can't exploit the engine by bhopping, just rely on this other bug..."
GG!
---
For what it's worth I totally agree with shockwave on this - making bunnyhopping legal was about the dumbest idea I've seen in NS.
<!--QuoteBegin-LittleToe+Jun 29 2004, 12:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (LittleToe @ Jun 29 2004, 12:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the core of what im saying is bh is hard for a new player to learn in a game that is already hard to learn. to make matters worse the game takes into account that bh is possable, therefore a basic skulk in the hands of someone that cannt bh (which is most players) cannt do any good for their team. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I know how to bunny hop to a limited degree, but I never use it in combat. Rushing a corridor is going to get you killed no matter what you do, but your chances are alot better with random crackjumping off walls than attemting an outright bunnyhop. True I boost myself into the attack with variations of the skill that puts me just over the top speed for the first couple seconds of the rush, but overall my effectiveness comes from reading the bite angles and picking the right spots to ambush from. Honestly I don't see a player that can bunnyhop as any more valuble than a good player that can't or doesn't bunnyhop, the only difference is that one gets to the RT that is getting knifed down a little quicker than the other. If you had a player who knew how to bunnyhop but not any other aspect of the game they would be a useless player as far as I am concerned. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->add in leap + bh and you have a skulk that is near impossable to hit.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> To even the best bunnyhoppers this is all but impossible to do unless they are in a siege map of some type. No matter how you do it leap is going to send you flying into a wall the overwelming majority of the time, this is a nill issue.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->all in all it makes the game not fun for most new players. few new players = dead mod.
it ether needs to go or be coded in to the game so everyone can do it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The problem is it isn't an easy fix. So much of the skulks gameplay mechanics depend on the way it jumps and leaps about, if only for crackjumping pourposes. If there were a simple way to remove bunnyhopping that wouldn't effect the way the skulk plays for crackjumping and leaping than it would be a much more plausable solution.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and if you want to bash me and make unfounded comements because i/we "cannt bh therefore want it out". ive got news for you the street goes bothways.
here you go, something little more on your lvl
you just want bh in because it give you and the l33t few an advatage over the average puber.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I am strictly a pubber, I have learned to bunnyhop, I have no problem teaching others, its like practicing twitch mucle, its just something you learn if you want to be good at the game you love. Realisticly how is depth of the learning curve a bad thing? Honestly the advantage your average bunnyhopping level player has over your average non BH player is negligable, to the point where the skill almost isn't worth the time it takes to master unless you really have a passion for the game. It realisticly is a difference of less than one in five kills.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->oh and ty for playing fire arms.
incase you dont know the comparson. the mod died do to explots and bugs that lead to alot of infighting on the boards (not to mention nerfing all the guns). to prevent a simalar thing from happening here i mearly sugest make it a part of the game that everyone can do or get rid of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Didn't firearms have a stamina bar? You can't blame bunnyhopping for the collapse of that game. Look at TFC, dispite the fact that bunnyhopping is still enabled in that game its popularity is still remarkable, expecially considering how old it is.
Comments
if you went back around the corner and hid, he'd just die of laughing, you dont need to fight...
go around him...you should know the map (especially eclipse) easily, and most importantly, parasite him.
He's not doing any good just camping in a hallway, there's probably a way around him, you dont NEED to kill him...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The skulks are rushing the marine spawn - they have no choice but to fight them, hiding will only give them more time to prepare.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why are skulks rushing to marine spawn in the first place? you end the game with fades (or onos if you're crazy and weird) not skulks...The only time you should be skulk rushing base is if one marine, or no marines are there
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Skulks will be forced to do head to head engagements against marines, you can't avoid it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, they won't, and you can avoid it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->wow all that just to kill one freaking marine? Pretty sad stuff. He doesn't need any teamwork to splatter you all over the wall. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
skulks move around the map tons faster than a marine, if you can kill a marine deep inside the map, then 3-4 skulks is more than worth stopping all expansion so deep inside.
And no, WTH, you cant be flanking them and going around. Often times a hallway, in order for you to come behind, would require you making a huge detour around, and you WILL run into other marines. And of course the guy will hear you comming.
Basically what you are saying is that for every marine you kill you have to parasite them? Please.
And marines dont have to flank or ambush or anything, they just go and they shoot you.
And no, WTH, you cant be flanking them and going around. Often times a hallway, in order for you to come behind, would require you making a huge detour around, and you WILL run into other marines. And of course the guy will hear you comming.
Basically what you are saying is that for every marine you kill you have to parasite them? Please.
And marines dont have to flank or ambush or anything, they just go and they shoot you. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol...go to www.amped-news.com and download ANY ns demo. If a skulk can't ambush a marine, he runs.
If you aren't prepared to play the game effectively to the way it was designed then <span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span> What you described as impossible is very possible, it is practiced every day by people with experience/a brain and I hope the CAL demos show you this. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You probably won't run into marines actually, if you go in a route towards the hives, not towards MS. And a huge detour, for a skulk, isn't very large at all...Also, if you bhop (the subject of the thread in the first place), you can get there faster...
...Oh what's this? A place where bunnyhopping is used out of combat?! Proposterous!
Also, there's a button that's bound to walking...."+speed"...For most people it's shift, and it isn't hard to use it, if you'd like for people not to hear you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Basically what you are saying is that for every marine you kill you have to parasite them? Please.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Press 2. Press mouse1. Press 1. Begin attack as normal.
However you might not even need to do this if you're coming from the back and they don't know you're there, seeing as their survivability rate is so low...Unless they have armor 3 or something...
And no, WTH, you cant be flanking them and going around. Often times a hallway, in order for you to come behind, would require you making a huge detour around, and you WILL run into other marines. And of course the guy will hear you comming.
Basically what you are saying is that for every marine you kill you have to parasite them? Please.
And marines dont have to flank or ambush or anything, they just go and they shoot you. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol...go to www.amped-news.com and download ANY ns demo. If a skulk can't ambush a marine, he runs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just last night, I was playing a game on nancy where I was 11-2. The rest of my 9-member team had 10 total kills. You know the only reason why? I made the choice to avoid marines right outside my hive and go exploit the weaknesses in marine coverage. I killed all their nodes around the map and any person that was capping. Since all their marines were standing outside sub and happily slaughtering my entire team, I was able to drop port and it completed before the turret factory outside sub was even laid down.
The sad fact is that we would have won if just a couple out of the 8 other skulks would have bothered to take the vent out of sub instead of using the front door. Skulks are not made to compete with marines on a 1-1 basis. They have less hitpoints and no ranged weapons. Either ambush or make the choice to leave that engagement and find a place where <i>you</i> can decide when to fight, not the marine.
That's why it's generally safe to leave your hive room and sneak around the map because it's much easier to hold the hive room over any part of the map.
Btw, as a side note, if ur teammates really was that noobis. How did they keep the TF outside ur hive "un-put" for aprox. 5-10 minutes, while u were taking down all the rts, and dropping hive? <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And how did you manage to lose once you had up 2nd hive, when you had held them off for so long without any turrets even being built.
That must have been some sort of special US-style game, I've never seen anything like that in EU... <!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo-->
edit;
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you have to hide and run away from the marines then you have already lost the game. Post me a demo where the entire team of skulks does what you said.
And no, WTH, you cant be flanking them and going around. Often times a hallway, in order for you to come behind, would require you making a huge detour around, and you WILL run into other marines. And of course the guy will hear you comming.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seriously though, your soo wrong. I havent seen, nor played, any highlevel clan matches where I've seen aliens rushing one marine standing in a corridor by himself doing nothing, and come out the winner. Even so, WHY would you bother to engage him at all? In Clan play, that frag has no value, it's the teams progress that matters. I'd just para him and run to a RT that was underattack or something, never bother with a single marine, unless u have reason to belive he's an "?b3r-N|nJ4-Fr0M-h3||" trying to get to your hive etc.
By the time you reach decent level play, marines are so mobile that frankly the first time you'll probably see that marine camping in some random location is probably when he's either at the chokepoint the marines want to hold anyway, or they're outside your hive.
In either of these situations (as Forlorn pointed out) there's no reason for that marine to 'want' to move. If he's allowed to sit there happily, he's going to win, because his friends are going to turn up and structures are going to start sprouting.
You need him dead, and you need him dead now. And he isn't going to do you the courtesy of wandering under a nice overhang for you to drop on his head from.
- Shockwave
or remove it, keep the speed the same and give stamina bar for sprinting (as someone sugested).
after all you explote hl in order to bh and not everyone can/will bh...
it seems only fair that a new player should have the same basic move/speed as someone that has played since day one...
(i go run and hide now)
The shotty does need fixing though. There are so many people out there who can kill a skulk or a blinking fade halfway across the room because the shotty dosen't spread.
kavasa - I didn't mean it in relation to my original comment, more just to counter people going on about ambushing. It's not all it's cracked up to be.
- Shockeh <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
or remove it, keep the speed the same and give stamina bar for sprinting (as someone sugested).
(i go run and hide now) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because those feature's could be used in fighting, making proper use of the aliens possibly far too effective. They're skulks, not mini-tanks. Bh can be used to some good effect in fights, but overall it's not that great.
By the time you reach decent level play, marines are so mobile that frankly the first time you'll probably see that marine camping in some random location is probably when he's either at the chokepoint the marines want to hold anyway, or they're outside your hive.
In either of these situations (as Forlorn pointed out) there's no reason for that marine to 'want' to move. If he's allowed to sit there happily, he's going to win, because his friends are going to turn up and structures are going to start sprouting.
You need him dead, and you need him dead now. And he isn't going to do you the courtesy of wandering under a nice overhang for you to drop on his head from.
- Shockwave <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alright...
If it's only one guy, and more guys will be coming soon, supposedly, they have to get through somehow. Which means, through the hallways, in which case you could camp those so no one else gets in...
(this is just an example, it's probably not the greatest thing to do in a real situation.)
Now, if he can't get any backup he'll just move off, or be dropped a phase.
If he's building a phase it's possible for one skulk to run up and kill him, but 2 for good measure is fine too.
And if you don't want to do any of those things you can just rush him with 2 or 3 skulks from all sides.
also in this new beta gameplay is faster than the old, if you sit and wate you will lose. ambushing is not that great anymore. mt is so cheap, i see more and more coms going mt first (btw you can still get armor one in nearly the same amount of time). get some nads and your gold, now you dont have to charge into the room right off. when you do you will know where they are because those skulks that are left have moved so as to not get killed by the nads.
the point is you cannt just wate for them to come to you. you cannt rush them ether, do to low speed and hp but at somepoint you will have to rush them. they will get a pg/tf, add some mines to that and 3 siege, you can say good bye to your hive.
you may ask where your team was, well i tell you they are off keeping an eye on the rt's/hive locations and siege spots (maybe a few stupidly rushing ms just to get killed time and time again with out doing any real damage) by the time they get to the location they are needed at the time, its to late, the defence is set. if you have 2 hives you can push them back by constently rushing (must have mc) but they get so much rfk they will be back very soon in ha (ha + siege = gg).
by that time you have onos but to do any good with the onos you must hit and run (fat cow, too low hp, small hall, add some skulks trying to get throgh to kill base/mariens and you end up with a dead onos)
bb siege base with the gorge? please, what a jk.
little more on topic...
i was under the impresion that the speed of the skulk was lowered because raiseing the top speed of the skulk = raiseing the top speed of a bh'er...
im just getting sick of this bh or lose bs that is going on (and the good old if you cannt bh you must suck anyway). i know the developer says bh is fine but he is wrong because not everyone can bh.
fine... if it is truely fine (and the skulk realy is balenced around bh'ing) then code it into the game so all of us can do it...
it should be all or nothing. it cannt sit on the fence because any change to the skulk will make the basic player to weak or the bh'er to strong
edit...
right now the basic skulk is to weak (imo)
This point has been answered so many times. If skulk movement speed is upped, then current skulks vs. current marines will be maddening. You know celerity skulks in combat? You know how hard they can be to hit? You're giving that upgrade to every single skulk for free every single spawn. The stamina bar is a bad idea for a couple reasons.
1. The aliens already have one, the adrenaline bar. Adding a second one for one lifeform is incredibly time consuming and lame.
2. It would still overpower skulks in combat.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->kavasa - I didn't mean it in relation to my original comment, more just to counter people going on about ambushing. It's not all it's cracked up to be.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But ambushing is how you're going to keep the marine from getting to his camping spot in the first place. Honestly the game seems pretty balanced right now. On those occasions when I pub, the better team wins. In clan matches we're starting to see marine ties as often as we see alien ties, and they're both in the minority. It's also a fun, fast game. Bhop is a part of that right now. I wouldn't mind if you took it out of the other evolutions, even the gorge. It is, however, the easiest way to balance the skulk, and I still see no reason not to use it.
No, they're not. A bhopping skulk coming straight at me from distance will die every time. Generally in 20-25 bullets, sometimes a little under 20, depending on range.
And Im not even saying anything about LittleToe's post, every single thing he said has already been answered...Not to mention some of it is just wrong...
And if you guys think that bunnhopping is so terrible looking and takes away from the environment and feel of the game, then why in the world are you suggesting a 3rd, "stamina" bar!?
Because DoD is cool m8 <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
add in leap + bh and you have a skulk that is near impossable to hit.
all in all it makes the game not fun for most new players. few new players = dead mod.
it ether needs to go or be coded in to the game so everyone can do it.
and if you want to bash me and make unfounded comements because i/we "cannt bh therefore want it out". ive got news for you the street goes bothways.
here you go, something little more on your lvl
you just want bh in because it give you and the l33t few an advatage over the average puber.
oh and ty for playing fire arms.
incase you dont know the comparson. the mod died do to explots and bugs that lead to alot of infighting on the boards (not to mention nerfing all the guns). to prevent a simalar thing from happening here i mearly sugest make it a part of the game that everyone can do or get rid of it.
takes deep breath, counts to 10 and remebers the love of the game and the people
Sorry, coming to this thread rather late, but this made me "laugh"
"Hey if you can't exploit the engine by bhopping, just rely on this other bug..."
GG!
---
For what it's worth I totally agree with shockwave on this - making bunnyhopping legal was about the dumbest idea I've seen in NS.
-Maus
I know how to bunny hop to a limited degree, but I never use it in combat. Rushing a corridor is going to get you killed no matter what you do, but your chances are alot better with random crackjumping off walls than attemting an outright bunnyhop. True I boost myself into the attack with variations of the skill that puts me just over the top speed for the first couple seconds of the rush, but overall my effectiveness comes from reading the bite angles and picking the right spots to ambush from. Honestly I don't see a player that can bunnyhop as any more valuble than a good player that can't or doesn't bunnyhop, the only difference is that one gets to the RT that is getting knifed down a little quicker than the other. If you had a player who knew how to bunnyhop but not any other aspect of the game they would be a useless player as far as I am concerned.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->add in leap + bh and you have a skulk that is near impossable to hit.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To even the best bunnyhoppers this is all but impossible to do unless they are in a siege map of some type. No matter how you do it leap is going to send you flying into a wall the overwelming majority of the time, this is a nill issue.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->all in all it makes the game not fun for most new players. few new players = dead mod.
it ether needs to go or be coded in to the game so everyone can do it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem is it isn't an easy fix. So much of the skulks gameplay mechanics depend on the way it jumps and leaps about, if only for crackjumping pourposes. If there were a simple way to remove bunnyhopping that wouldn't effect the way the skulk plays for crackjumping and leaping than it would be a much more plausable solution.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and if you want to bash me and make unfounded comements because i/we "cannt bh therefore want it out". ive got news for you the street goes bothways.
here you go, something little more on your lvl
you just want bh in because it give you and the l33t few an advatage over the average puber.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am strictly a pubber, I have learned to bunnyhop, I have no problem teaching others, its like practicing twitch mucle, its just something you learn if you want to be good at the game you love. Realisticly how is depth of the learning curve a bad thing? Honestly the advantage your average bunnyhopping level player has over your average non BH player is negligable, to the point where the skill almost isn't worth the time it takes to master unless you really have a passion for the game. It realisticly is a difference of less than one in five kills.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->oh and ty for playing fire arms.
incase you dont know the comparson. the mod died do to explots and bugs that lead to alot of infighting on the boards (not to mention nerfing all the guns). to prevent a simalar thing from happening here i mearly sugest make it a part of the game that everyone can do or get rid of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Didn't firearms have a stamina bar? You can't blame bunnyhopping for the collapse of that game. Look at TFC, dispite the fact that bunnyhopping is still enabled in that game its popularity is still remarkable, expecially considering how old it is.
[ninja edit spelling]