What Do Nsguides Have Over Other Helping Hands?
Forlorn
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
<div class="IPBDescription">Could someone please tell me?</div> Here is the purpose of NSGuides - players specifically designated to help out new players, by going around on servers with a purple spacesuit icon and telling them what do to, in a nice, polite, and friendly manner.
What I find funny about the NSGuides is that they have the icon so people can identfy them in game, and yet, if some newbie just DL'ed the game are trying to figure it out, they aren't going to know that the purple icon stands for someone to help them. Therefore, the people who know what the purple icon <b>already know how to play the game!</b>. A vet, developer, server operator, or playtester each have as much relavance to the newb.
Next, the newbies, when confused, either do one of these things:
1. Try their luck, confuddled and confused, as no one helps them.
2. Figure it out on their own. Most of us did it this way.
3. Asks for help.
4. Plays, becomes confused and is running around in circles clearly lost at the game.
Where do NSGuides fit into any of these pictures?
1. Sorry, these guys are just there. You can't save these guys.
2. Instead of figuring it out on their own, they somehow will be helped? How will an NSGuide know? The players who figure it out on their own are the ones who already understand how to aim, skulk, but may not realize that the arms lab is a prerequisite to the prototype lab. How will the NSGuides identify such a player?
3. A newb asks for help. Immediately, the NSGuide on the server leaps into action, telling them all sorts of info on the game on whatever question they might have.
Why is an NSGuide any more useful than say... any other experienced player of the game who might happen to be on? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> Whether it be a vet to server regular, there are many out there who would be glad to help the said newb.
Furthermore, say the 'newb' in question was actually someone who's getting into clanplay and wants to know something much more complex:
"At the start of the round in a 6v6 standard clan setting on ns_veil, and considering you have 2 temp gorges to drop your early nodes, how many skulks should you put at the starting entrances to each opening in the map (this would be topo and west skylights), and why? Or is this a bad start"
If an NSGuide were being honest, they would refer the newb to a clanner out of one of the top 5 clans, most likely.
Which again, defeats the purpose of the NSGuide as the newb could just have gone to a top5 clanner himself. While sure, there are maybe 1-2 bad apples out of the entire top5 clanners, or if the vet doesn't feel like giving advice, all the newb has to do is ask someone else. Someone would help him.
4. The newb is lost on the map, on what to do, how to evolve, etc. etc.
Some random sees this, and helps him. The newb then does the following:
a.) Is offended, for help without asking "shutup, I know what I'm doing"
b.) Is thankful for the help.
The NSGuide will not be treated any differently. How is the NSGuide more useful than the random player who decides to help the lost and confused newb?
If anyone can answer any of these questions or refute a point, please do. Because quite frankly, try as I might, I can't reason as to what the purpose to the NSGuide's existance is. I'm not trying to be rude or offensive, but I'm probably going to offend someone anyhow. I'm not sorry if I offend you, but please realize I'm trying to be sinscere and I would like some honest reasons to help me understand the NSGuides.
What I find funny about the NSGuides is that they have the icon so people can identfy them in game, and yet, if some newbie just DL'ed the game are trying to figure it out, they aren't going to know that the purple icon stands for someone to help them. Therefore, the people who know what the purple icon <b>already know how to play the game!</b>. A vet, developer, server operator, or playtester each have as much relavance to the newb.
Next, the newbies, when confused, either do one of these things:
1. Try their luck, confuddled and confused, as no one helps them.
2. Figure it out on their own. Most of us did it this way.
3. Asks for help.
4. Plays, becomes confused and is running around in circles clearly lost at the game.
Where do NSGuides fit into any of these pictures?
1. Sorry, these guys are just there. You can't save these guys.
2. Instead of figuring it out on their own, they somehow will be helped? How will an NSGuide know? The players who figure it out on their own are the ones who already understand how to aim, skulk, but may not realize that the arms lab is a prerequisite to the prototype lab. How will the NSGuides identify such a player?
3. A newb asks for help. Immediately, the NSGuide on the server leaps into action, telling them all sorts of info on the game on whatever question they might have.
Why is an NSGuide any more useful than say... any other experienced player of the game who might happen to be on? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> Whether it be a vet to server regular, there are many out there who would be glad to help the said newb.
Furthermore, say the 'newb' in question was actually someone who's getting into clanplay and wants to know something much more complex:
"At the start of the round in a 6v6 standard clan setting on ns_veil, and considering you have 2 temp gorges to drop your early nodes, how many skulks should you put at the starting entrances to each opening in the map (this would be topo and west skylights), and why? Or is this a bad start"
If an NSGuide were being honest, they would refer the newb to a clanner out of one of the top 5 clans, most likely.
Which again, defeats the purpose of the NSGuide as the newb could just have gone to a top5 clanner himself. While sure, there are maybe 1-2 bad apples out of the entire top5 clanners, or if the vet doesn't feel like giving advice, all the newb has to do is ask someone else. Someone would help him.
4. The newb is lost on the map, on what to do, how to evolve, etc. etc.
Some random sees this, and helps him. The newb then does the following:
a.) Is offended, for help without asking "shutup, I know what I'm doing"
b.) Is thankful for the help.
The NSGuide will not be treated any differently. How is the NSGuide more useful than the random player who decides to help the lost and confused newb?
If anyone can answer any of these questions or refute a point, please do. Because quite frankly, try as I might, I can't reason as to what the purpose to the NSGuide's existance is. I'm not trying to be rude or offensive, but I'm probably going to offend someone anyhow. I'm not sorry if I offend you, but please realize I'm trying to be sinscere and I would like some honest reasons to help me understand the NSGuides.
Comments
Alot of servers use the purple icon for reserve slotist...
If the Guide program were activated, I'd assume a note about what that icon means would be in the manual and possibly the download page. Even if it weren't, it'd serve as a sign who did recognize it that there's somebody on the server who's willing and able to answer questions in ways that don't feel like a punch in the gut. It's also a way of saying "I know what I'm talking about," sort of an honorific indicating superior knowledge of the game.
This is a good point.
If someone gets their jollies from an icon, enough to the point where they will want to help others, then I guess the program is okay.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If the Guide program were activated, I'd assume a note about what that icon means would be in the manual and possibly the download page. Even if it weren't, it'd serve as a sign who did recognize it that there's somebody on the server who's willing and able to answer questions in ways that don't feel like a punch in the gut. It's also a way of saying "I know what I'm talking about," sort of an honorific indicating superior knowledge of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Better yet, it should be in the little pop up screens in the installer, you know, when you choose what type of connection you have, where you want to install NS, etc. etc.
If the Guide program were activated, I'd assume a note about what that icon means would be in the manual and possibly the download page. Even if it weren't, it'd serve as a sign who did recognize it that there's somebody on the server who's willing and able to answer questions in ways that don't feel like a punch in the gut. It's also a way of saying "I know what I'm talking about," sort of an honorific indicating superior knowledge of the game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If only the superior knowledge part were true.
(13:15:01) (Fusion) pm me if u can tell me where to DL natural seletion and get all the patches and everything,THANKS
(13:17:32) (^Zunni^) goto www.natural-selection.org and do into the download area.. There are several mirrors which house the files.
(13:17:48) (Fusion) i dont see
(13:18:13) (^Zunni^) loading it now
(13:18:24) (Fusion) hey u got vent?
(13:18:44) (^Zunni^) no, not at the office here
(13:20:13) (^Zunni^) <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/downloads.html' target='_blank'>http://www.natural-selection.org/downloads.html</a>
(13:20:17) (^Zunni^) there you go.
(13:20:48) (^Zunni^) enjoy the game...
(13:22:07) (Fusion) ty
(13:23:08) (^Zunni^) np
now give me my icon <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I've been part of many many games where questions are asked, "how do I gestate?" for example and there has been no response.
I've also been part of games where every single person has given an answer to a question.
So I suspect the guides are more for the prior example and less for the latter example.
The other thing is, people ask all the time "What's your icon for?" and when I explain what it is, they then have a certain feeling of trust and often follow up with a question. I suspect the guides would work the same way.
Guides aren't necessarily there to help with clan strats, but rather to facilitate the conversation between the player and whoever can give them the best answer. So if the person doesn't know Cloud King is awesome at clan fading (well fading in general), then he wouldn't know who to ask about fade strats. However the guides contain enough clan people (from what I remember of them) to be of assitance in that regard.
What makes Pt's/Devsdifferent than guides?
Well Dev's are generally too busy making the game to play so it's not often you see them
And PT's (I'm hoping) will be too busy PT'ing all of the wonderful new things Flay is putting into the game to pub much.
I suspect the questions the guides are there to answer, will be things like:
How do I evolve?
How do I get a SG? (in classic)
How do I upgrade?
etc etc, because if the person has the depth of knowledge to ask the Ns_veil question posed, they would also know who the top clans are.
How do I get a SG? (in classic)
How do I upgrade?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But see, you don't need to be anyone special to do this. You could be another newb who just read the manual. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I do like the idea of adding something in the installer so they know who the guides are and who they can trust not to do mean things to them.
Also, this guide program is also going to be hosting training sessions for players, we are working on a training map, and have a manual in the works for newer players to read to help them better understand the game. This is not strictly an ingame guide program, it has a much broader spectrum to it than the one you presented.
As well, other people have pointed out that many players are rude to new players, noticed this myself last night as a team of us were trying to teach someone to command, he got out so we could help him catch up a little as people were flaming, one of these people also stole the chair on him. Most people seem to get flamed when asking a question and the icon would let them know to ask away.
So, the purpose of us is not to strictly go around in game as you believe it is. We have a much broader plan and this program should be a success.
Thanks for the post though. Gave me something to reply to.
Of course, no offense taken. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
How do I get a SG? (in classic)
How do I upgrade?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But see, you don't need to be anyone special to do this. You could be another newb who just read the manual. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True but you could be on a server where no-one does do this..
Major Chrome:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No need to refer people to the "Top 5 Clans" as more than just the Top 5 Clans know how to play the game, they may just be the ones who have the better reactions that it takes to kill someone faster than the average player.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's not true. Unless they are active within the clan community, they will not know the current and latest strategies, weaknesses, scripts, as well as techniques used in clan play.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, this guide program is also going to be hosting training sessions for players, we are working on a training map, and have a manual in the works for newer players to read to help them better understand the game. This is not strictly an ingame guide program, it has a much broader spectrum to it than the one you presented.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Training map is done by a mapper, not nessesarly an NSGuide. In fact, it doesn't matter if the mapper is an NSGuide or not, unless Flayra specifically states he won't put a tutorial in the game unless an NSGuide makes it.
Also, most players never read the manual to an online game. (Myself included... I just wanted to DL the game and was anxious to play it.)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As well, other people have pointed out that many players are rude to new players, noticed this myself last night as a team of us were trying to teach someone to command, he got out so we could help him catch up a little as people were flaming, one of these people also stole the chair on him. Most people seem to get flamed when asking a question and the icon would let them know to ask away.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, but the icon won't mean crap to them unless somehow they know upon installation of the game, furthermore there's no guarentee they will meet them in-game. What is the ratio of NSGuides to NSplayers? If I were to lead the NSGuides, you'd have to accept around something close to 200 NSGuides to make a really effective program. Also, from what I have seen some people who have been a bit hotheaded in the past were turned down. That's not a very good path, but I digress. Where are the majority of the guides located (America, and the remaining are in Europe)? Also, the only way in which a newbie could ask a question without being flamed is if he used the steams in game chat system, and he may not use it for any number of valid reasons. Probably the main one is that he can ask questions much faster with in game text.
Again, the main point here is that the newb using the NSGuide is more a luck based thing, and the odds the NSGuide adds for the average newb to help learn the game and not quit in frustration is very, very, very small. At least as of right now it is. But I don't know how quickly the NSGuides plan to grow at, as since their launch I have seen no growth for it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So, the purpose of us is not to strictly go around in game as you believe it is. We have a much broader plan and this program should be a success.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed, NSGuides would have to be something much much larger to be effective, and then dev involvement.
That would be useful if it was true. Can an NSGuide confirm this?
That would be useful if it was true. Can an NSGuide confirm this? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep, thats correct.
That would be useful if it was true. Can an NSGuide confirm this? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep, thats correct. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow. Stuff like that should really be public, it makes the NSGuides seem a lot more than an organization with an icon for a gimmick.
Even still, there's no guarentee that the person will be receptive to the green text, and again the largest problem would be that NSGuides are probably only .01% of the times they could be. Which would be solved by a roster of something alone the lines of 200. In that case, I'll just wait a see.
Not only a willingness to help others, but the backing of the community to do as such...plus a special forum to discuss how they are going to help others.
Plus they have a pretty icon, while helping hands don't.
Not only a willingness to help others, but the backing of the community to do as such...plus a special forum to discuss how they are going to help others.
Plus they have a pretty icon, while helping hands don't. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
But this says/does nothing.
and isn't the example of the helpful NS player reason enough to keep them around?
Not only a willingness to help others, but the backing of the community to do as such...plus a special forum to discuss how they are going to help others.
Plus they have a pretty icon, while helping hands don't. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But this says/does nothing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So do you agree with the answer to your question?
They have an icon, and the willingness to help and a forum to call there own...
If so then your question is answered.
If not then what is the next point...I am guessing "What is the point to a guide?"
The same as with the reason for PT's, Dev's, Constellation, and all the other icons...
To create a community and allow for people to get recognized for the actions within the community.
Once we get everything settled, we are going through another 70+ applications so the numbers could increase a lot more.
If it takes a stupid purple icon to get less people flaming newbies, GOOD, I could care less what its takes, the elitist aditude that plauges this game abundantly has got to stop.
That means that those who don't know to ask or don't dare to ask are encouraged to seek help.
Secondly, if I remember correctly, they have (or will have) newbie servers so someone who hasn't played before will look at the list of servers and see servers dedicated to new players which are forgiving of mistakes and teach you everything you need to know. This means that a) people will get more training and b) those who know what they are doing don't get games ruined by newbies.
Then of course you have to bear in mind that those who hear about this game will also probably hear that its quite complex, now while that makes people like me leap for joy there will be an equal amount of people who will be turned off by the high learning curve and deep gameplay. Those people are normally the same types who don't like reading manuals and prefer to just jump on to a server and learn first-hand. Now if they knew that they could play a couple of games of NS without getting moaned at for being new and just learn through experience.
In fact it's good PR for the game in general, it gives people a good idea of the kind of community we have here and the kind of community we are aiming for/at.
A lot of people seem to be forgetting that newbies for NS aren't the same as newbies for most games. This is a MOD, something you're probably only going to download if you know about the game in the first place, if you're not a 'gamer' then you probably won't even hear about NS. All the newbies need is a chance to learn, something that NSGuides can help increase even if it can't rectify every problem.
Whats the point in trying to pull down a project likes this that is actively trying to help everyone? Even if they didn't help anyone at all I'd be behind them in theory but with official backing and enough effort they can make a difference.
I say three cheers for the guides