The Definitive Guide To Win A Pub Game In Ns
Rapier7
Join Date: 2004-02-05 Member: 26108Members
Join Date: 2004-02-05 Member: 26108Members
Hopefully this will attract less flames from the.....veteran community, but I've commanded a lot of games and I notice some general trends...
*Intended for 8+ players on each team, assume a 1:1 kill ratio for your marines*
Initial build order: IP, Armory, Arms lab>A1, 1 pack of mines. Total cost: 85 res.
By the time you finish building all of these (in a pub), around a minute should have elapsed, your res total should be around 30 by now, spend these on the 2 RTs closest to the marine start.
*note* After you finish researching A1, research all the weapon upgrades next.*note*
Why? Because A1 is the most cost effective armor upgrade in the game, ALL Kharaa creatures will take 3 hits to kill you, all. With Armor 2, the skulk and lerk will kill in 4 bites, but by the time Armor 2 is done, fades will start to appear (which still kill in 3), and you want weapon upgrades to ward them off (or possibly kill them).
After you have 3 RTs, (MS+2 nearest RTs), let your marines rambo off, I'll assume you listened to the hive in the beginning, so try and get a few marines to cap the RTs on the opposite side of their hive while the rest just rambo off into enemy territory, hopefully catching a gorge with his pants down (figuratively). Let them do their thing for about 2:30 minutes. In the mean time, build an observatory and research phase technology.
It should be around 4:30 into the game, this is where fades start to appear (if the alien team is somewhat coordinated). Your phase tech should be done researching and you should have either 2 weapon upgrades and one armor upgrade or 1/1 for both. Scan the alien team's likely second hive spot, if the hive is building, set a way point to a good siege spot near the hive and spam the message, "GO TO YOUR WAYPOINT, YOU GET A SHOTGUN!" Get the PG up and make sure the coast is clear, if there are too many marines that can't phase in time, beacon and start spamming, "PHASE PHASE PHASE!" Drop as many shotguns as you can, and also get a tfac going up. You know the rest.
Now, why am I banking on the marines winning this little sortie? Simple, because marines are the better defenders in the game. All they have to do is ward off the fade and plaster the skulks that come hurtling down their way while letting the sieges take care of the hive. Since the second hive is building, if you decimate a large rush, it'll be quite some time before the aliens respawn in strength to try and attack again.
Repeat on their first hive after the hive that's building goes down. If there is no second hive, do it on their only hive.
*note* Don't upgrade the armory nor research motion tracking. While they do provide useful benefits, they take long to research and hamper the amount of shotguns and mines you can drop at the siege points. *note*
This is it. I'm serious. If your marines can manage a 1:1 kill ratio with the alien team, you're almost always guaranteed to win.
Flame away.
*Intended for 8+ players on each team, assume a 1:1 kill ratio for your marines*
Initial build order: IP, Armory, Arms lab>A1, 1 pack of mines. Total cost: 85 res.
By the time you finish building all of these (in a pub), around a minute should have elapsed, your res total should be around 30 by now, spend these on the 2 RTs closest to the marine start.
*note* After you finish researching A1, research all the weapon upgrades next.*note*
Why? Because A1 is the most cost effective armor upgrade in the game, ALL Kharaa creatures will take 3 hits to kill you, all. With Armor 2, the skulk and lerk will kill in 4 bites, but by the time Armor 2 is done, fades will start to appear (which still kill in 3), and you want weapon upgrades to ward them off (or possibly kill them).
After you have 3 RTs, (MS+2 nearest RTs), let your marines rambo off, I'll assume you listened to the hive in the beginning, so try and get a few marines to cap the RTs on the opposite side of their hive while the rest just rambo off into enemy territory, hopefully catching a gorge with his pants down (figuratively). Let them do their thing for about 2:30 minutes. In the mean time, build an observatory and research phase technology.
It should be around 4:30 into the game, this is where fades start to appear (if the alien team is somewhat coordinated). Your phase tech should be done researching and you should have either 2 weapon upgrades and one armor upgrade or 1/1 for both. Scan the alien team's likely second hive spot, if the hive is building, set a way point to a good siege spot near the hive and spam the message, "GO TO YOUR WAYPOINT, YOU GET A SHOTGUN!" Get the PG up and make sure the coast is clear, if there are too many marines that can't phase in time, beacon and start spamming, "PHASE PHASE PHASE!" Drop as many shotguns as you can, and also get a tfac going up. You know the rest.
Now, why am I banking on the marines winning this little sortie? Simple, because marines are the better defenders in the game. All they have to do is ward off the fade and plaster the skulks that come hurtling down their way while letting the sieges take care of the hive. Since the second hive is building, if you decimate a large rush, it'll be quite some time before the aliens respawn in strength to try and attack again.
Repeat on their first hive after the hive that's building goes down. If there is no second hive, do it on their only hive.
*note* Don't upgrade the armory nor research motion tracking. While they do provide useful benefits, they take long to research and hamper the amount of shotguns and mines you can drop at the siege points. *note*
This is it. I'm serious. If your marines can manage a 1:1 kill ratio with the alien team, you're almost always guaranteed to win.
Flame away.
Comments
It's an exact copy of how many commanders play this game with very small differences.
But you have to explain WHY not upgrade armory, it costs 30res(alot in the first minutes of the game), but IF you're marines are having some trouble with the second hive, then thoose HMGs can come in very handy.
I can agree that Motion tracking is...both good and annoying when you realise that you can't scann the hive because of "upgrading".
Otherwise, well written, although there are otherways to win a pub game.
just listing possible setbacks here, i know youre an excellent comm.
- field armory ;F
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It's happened many times.
Remember, phase gates. When you're sieging the hive, you have phase gates. And if there's a rush on your base, you can always beacon, or they're wasting strength to defend their hive.
In either way, I win. Because even if I do beacon or tell my marines to recall back to base, they can't get from MS to the siege spot quickly enough as I can.
HMGs are good, but shotguns are better for their cost and their ability to rip up buildings. Plus the 30 res investment and the 3 minute wait make them poorer investments than shotguns and mines or more res for weapon upgrades.
You've never played the best fades then, the best fades wouldent be dumb enough to engage a group of 6 shotgunners.
A competent commander and some marines who can manage to 1:1 skulks will always win a siege spot in a pub game.
Azkar, if the fade doesn't engage the six shotgunners, then the fade isn't doing anything. You can siege a hive with impunity. Second, siege spots are located at corridors near the hive, if the lerk tries to get near, they die, simple as that. Third, when the siege cannons pound away relentlessly at your hive, you also lose valuable chambers and kill the odd skulk with incidental damage.
Yes, a <b><i>fixed</i></b> method. Why? NS is very linear when it comes to the commander's duties. In any case, do you know why this <b><i>fixed</i></b> method works? Because I can dictate the flow of battle, I let the aliens respond to ME, not the other way around.
In a worst case scenario that I am forced to beacon, who's to say I will lose all my stuff at the siege spot? Mines work wonders against roving packs of skulks and if lerks try and get near, they are a waste of 30 res. In any case, I usually have the base layout so that the PG is near the middle of all the beacon spots so they can go back in a moment's notice. Even if I don't beacon, I can tell some marines at the siege spot to go back and take care of that fade.
Nothing is Definitive... please don't use that word.
Nothing is Definitive... please don't use that word. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
he likes to use the word Definitive, it certainly gets more looks on the thread, just like this one!
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69645&hl=definitive' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...5&hl=definitive</a>
i'm not sure if this is a defnitive strat. how do you alter it if the aliens get a ton of lerks sporing like crazy?
There is no definitive guide to commanding. 1 strategy does not fit all. Not upgrading the armory limits your options for Proto tech if you MAY need it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In my experience, even the best fades go down to a group of six shotgunners. Always. Without doubt. No variance. Even better if it is at the siege spot where they could blink into a mine or two.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The best fades don't go into packs of 6 shotgunners. They isolate and eliminate.
HMGs are much more effective while shooting fades, because they can hit them when they try to retreat. Its much tougher going against a pack of HMGs, then a pack of shotguns.
And your 1:1 ratio is not true as well. Aliens spawn faster than marines. Aliens are in AWESOME shape if they can 1:1 the marines until the mid game.
Marines usually need atleast 1.5:1 ratio to make into their mid game effectively.
why?
most of the time they attract the skulks away from 1 or 2 rt cappers who listen orders....
That is how you win.
There are so many factors that can rip this guide to pieces(even though it's a good guide).
And I can tell you(as a rather skilled fade) that HMGs are alot better versus fades, shotguns can rather easy be killed by a skilled fade.
+vs a equally skilled alien team, they WILL be going for the obs first, then the PG.
Explain to me why exactly this guide cannot be applied to any and all pub situations. Please, tell me.
There are a few things you guys need to know:
MCs first are almost NEVER viable in a public game, "OMGZ, NOOBZORZ! WER R R DCZORZ?!?!?!?!?!??!", yes, they give skulks a boost, but SCs do the job even more effectively, and yet, I still don't see SCs being a popular first chamber.
Firewater, there are loads of times a 1:1 ratio can be maintained and the marines can still win just as easily. The problem is that aliens have rather vulnerable hives. One ninja or a small group that can put up a PG in a siege spot next to a hive, that hive is gone, always.
The point is, you either hit the second hive that's BUILDING instead of letting them get their much needed second hive weapons. Even if they chew all your resnodes when you're busy at the siege spot, they're diverting alienpower from their hive. Marines can recover from one RT, aliens almost never recover from having their second hive blasted. Here's why:
Marines get stronger while the aliens just lose a highly significant building, since upgrades are universal, you have stronger marines against the same aliens.
While you could argue that my strategy relies heavily on getting the PG near the siege spot, it almost always works, because pub alien teams often leave major gaps in their high priority spots.
Niteowl: If the aliens get a lot of lerks....that's just stupid. They've already signed their own death warrant.
also med spam so they dont die and they all love you forever..
you can win doing almost anything. u just gotta know how to respond to things.
You do have respond, even if you're "setting the pace." If it was only marines, this wouldn't be NS; it would be "follow the leader." With two teams, you will have to respond to situations no matter what.
You do have respond, even if you're "setting the pace." If it was only marines, this wouldn't be NS; it would be "follow the leader." With two teams, you will have to respond to situations no matter what. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
dont forget the singing <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
rofl... no smart Fade would attack a group of 6 shotgunners without some serious backup
Other than that though, decent guide I guess. Finally pubbers realize armor1 is freaking amazing.
Are horrible.
8V8, you need DCs, RTs, Hive in a pub, -always-.
2-3 people get a RT, one saves for DCs, one for hive.
Thats 4-5 people getting those things, usually more people get RTs and 1 hoards res for the needed fade, sometimes 2 but one of them tends to die quickly enough.
If you can even get one common NS player to spam welding then you're good to go, drop an armory at the siege point and you don't have to waste res on meds all the time.
How the lerk is sporing you around a corner and hitting all your marines with a fade blinking in and out without being brutally wounded by shotties is beyound me with a few mines. . .
How many common NS players do you see a lerk in anyways, and then, how long do they actually live and contribute to the team? Not many for me, unless it's a khaara biased map like Hera.
A good strategy, that will usually work and of course will adapt if it doesn't work.
And you have the audacity to call me an "Annoying elitist".
Oh the irony behind that one.
Ok first off as soon as in the chair, drop IP>Armory>Obbs.
While those are getting build I send 2 marines off, one in either direction from our spawn (doesnt matter what map there is always more than one way to go). And while they are building I also find the hive. Ok we have hive location.
In roughly 2 groups of 3 (say a 8v8 pub) I send them off to the 2 opposite hives while simultaniously upgrading phase tech. One marine stays at spawn. As they go the the 2 other hives they cap res along the way. Assuming my marines dont all ignore me and rambo off, this caps me atleast 6 res points within 1:30 and the arms lab goes up with the armory upgrading. Phases in both hives (or if they didnt make it to the other hive, then they are returning and fighting for it. While the aliens are distracted trying for one hive, my marines have secured the other hive. As soon as aliens start hitting a hive I get L1 armor on and dump a second arms lab (if I hold 2 hives and the res between then I have 7-8 res). Once phases are up and tehre are a few turrets to hold off skulks the aliens should be getting fades (atleast 2). I will drop around 4 shotguns to a group of marines and send them off to roam about making sure our res and hives stays intact.
At this point the armory is upgraded and the proto lab comes out. Also motion is researching as soon as a proto is down. HA/JP depends on situation ingame, but I generally favor HA trains (they dont die as fast and generally stick together). Move onto their hive, lay down sieges etc and go from there.
As I said its a loose guide but has served me well. Sorry if people wanted more specifics but it just changes continually in game.
So I'll give u a few points that will help.
-Always maintain your res base. If a res point gets attacked, send a marine. If he is too late and the res dies rebuild.
-Dont be too liberal with electrifying. Electrifying should be kept to a minimum (the key points that are hard to get to fast)
-DONT FORGET ABOUT UPGRADES. Many a comm has been really involved in whatever they were doing at the time (like taking a hive or sieging out OC's) that they forget upgrades for a minute or two. Upgrades are life!
-Never send a HA train out without L2 armor and motion. L2 armor is a MUST for HA's cause it gives them not only more armor, but more effective armor. Motion is a must for one reason. They can prepare for attacks, and silent skulks sneaking up behind u are no longer as big a threat.
-Upgrade your armory within the first 2 minutes. Alot of comms dont do it that early or forget to do it till later, but trust me, having the ability to give out HMG's or GL's when you need them is a god send.
-Motion is also a god send early. Many marine lives are saved especially in early games when the marines have this advantage. Not only that, but aliens get less kills and hence less res!
-Be careful with turret farms. Useful for holding hives, but remember they cost alot of res. Dont turret farm if you dont have 2 hives locked down. Otherwise it will get unfortunate. 2 Gorges with Bile bomb = dead turret factory in under 5 seconds. This means u spent 150 res on turrets for nothing. Best to use them sparingly.
-Auxillary buildings. If you have several res points, dont be afraid to build a second obbs or a second arms lab. These serve additional purposes. The first purpose for these is obvious. An additional arms lab allows you to upgrade your marines faster, making them more effective. An additional Obbs allows you to not only research motion and still have your scanner sweep, but also gives you heaps of energy for scanning when u are sieging. Every comm has had that point where he runs out of scanner energy and the hive has like 1 hp left. 2 Obbs are a god send for this.
-Finally my last point of advice. Hotkey everything. As soon as you are in the chair, select your marines (either as one team or as 2). When you have an arms lab down or an obbs down, hotkey this too. Quick reference to this allows you to not have to change map positions to access it. This can save the game.
Last but not least! Be encouraging and help your team. Remember the comm keeps the alive and victorious not just by his skill, but my his personal skills. IF the comm is a good comm and people like him, he is polite and asks his marines to do things instead yelling, ranting and raving and yelling, then he will be a better comm!
telling people how to play, thats nice.. what if your wrong?! ever thought of that one?
Firstly, I said this is how I play, and u can like it or not.
Secondly, the arms lab does not HAVE to be your third building. For me it is usally the 4th (not including rt's). The reason for this is that my main strategy lies in locking up 2 hives early in game making it alot harder for the aliens. Thats why obbs after armory because I get phase tech up first. You dont have to do it that way, but I win over 90% of my games in pub's, pugs and wars with a strategy loosly based on that.
Sheesh, sif flame me because u dont agree. Say "I think the arms lab should be third not the obbs" and state why instead of saying "YOU ARE WRONG ARMS 3RD ALWAYS NER NER NER"
Thanks lump for saying that, I just thought I better respond personally. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->