TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
edited July 2004
Okay.
'Router' is a misnomer. Actual routers usually run upward of $5-30K apiece. What you're thinking of is essentially an embedded NAT with wireless support.
They're incredibly insecure, as a lot of people will drive or walk around with certain programs running (warwalking/wardriving) looking for wireless access points (WAPs). At least one includes built-in encryption cracking, as well as password-cracking, allowing instant access to your LAN, from within any firewalls you may have erected. Wireless networking is also MUCH slower than cabled-networking, by almost an order of magnitude. In short, you'd be better off grabbing a spool of Cat5 and crimping a custom cable. It's not hard to do.
If you're dedicated toward using a WAP, with all of the monolithic down-sides still in mind, do yourself a favor and stay away from Linksys (evil! evil!), as they're nothing but problems when someone brings one onto our LANs. NetGear puts out much better ones, that play nicely with the rest of your network.. instead of causing massive, multiple hub/switch failure and sporadic disconnections, as Linksys do.
802.11g is what you want to shoot for (54Mbps). There are apparently some that offer 'pseudo-108Mbps', but they aren't worth the extra money. The current *actual* transfer limit is 54.
Answer your questions? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yeah, I just got DSL and a new computer, and I got a free LinkSys Wireless Broadband Router with the DSL. I personally have not heard any bad thing about LinkSys, but I'll find out soon if it's a piece of crap or not. Contiuing on, the reason I took up the free offer was becasue I was getting a laptop and wanted Wi-Fi in my house, or just to sit on my back porch and go on the internet. I know that wireless security is a big issue but I'm sure that with the proper security measures it'll be just fine.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Creep, I work as a network technician, including setting up temporary LANs for trade shows. WiFi is there only as a backup, and for yuppies who brought their laptop and 'want my intarweb' so 'I can check my outlook'.
If there's a problem with the network, literal step one is to cruise the booths looking for people with more than one computer, who only got one 'net drop. See if they've got a hub. If it's a Linksys, ask them to remove it (under the pretense of them having only paid for one computer to be online).
So far, this has fixed all 'mystery glitches'.
And no. WiFi is pitifully easy to crack. Encryption modes, network password... on my 1GHz P3 laptop, it... er.. <i>would take</i> less than a minute, on a problematic WAP, to get in. Simple ones could take less than ten seconds. Of course I'd never do that myself, say, while waiting for the burger-jockeys to get the lunch order right. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'll solve the problem by getting my cable company to actually do some work - put the port where my PC is, not where the TV is. Thanks Talesin, that's answered my question. This thread can now be locked if you wish.
Wow.. Talesin I had no idea WEP was that insecure. From what I understood it would take on average 20 days of contant packet sniffing on a network that had traffic running through it 24/7 for a 128 bit key. Unless you mean cracking the routers password... I had no idea they were that insecure <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
dynamicx, that's to bruteforce with an assumed-default alphanumeric password, and to crack through EVERY combination. Most of the time the combination will be hit WELL before reaching the end of the keyspace. Especially if random-sampling is used rather than series.
Essentially, that's like taking a combination lock and unlocking it by running through every possible combination, writing down all the wrong ones until you get one that works.
When you factor in known information like defined headers, you get one of the numbers. This takes exponentially less time, literally. Add in best-guess to catch the sync-increment portion of the header, and the fact that if duplicate-packets go by at regular intervals, you can assume that they're a part of the heartbeat, which makes cracking through it much faster (given that you know all the types of heartbeats you'll be looking for, as well as their default timing).
And that's not even counting outright security holes in the firmware. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Also: wireless "broadband" isn't very broad. On bad days it's completly possible for your connection to feel like ASDL or worse. Wireless stinks. For the best speed possible, have a cable modem physically attached to your computer's ethernet card with some CAT5, and the cable connection attached through a cable cable (hehe) into the wall. Physical is allways best for speed.
Thanks for that Talesin. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
can i take my cable internet any where in my house? cuz i have it in this 1 room but if i were to move it would there be a way to not have liek 20000000000000 ft of cat5 cable around the house
'Router' is a misnomer. Actual routers usually run upward of $5-30K apiece. What you're thinking of is essentially an embedded NAT with wireless support.
They're incredibly insecure, as a lot of people will drive or walk around with certain programs running (warwalking/wardriving) looking for wireless access points (WAPs). At least one includes built-in encryption cracking, as well as password-cracking, allowing instant access to your LAN, from within any firewalls you may have erected. Wireless networking is also MUCH slower than cabled-networking, by almost an order of magnitude. In short, you'd be better off grabbing a spool of Cat5 and crimping a custom cable. It's not hard to do.
If you're dedicated toward using a WAP, with all of the monolithic down-sides still in mind, do yourself a favor and stay away from Linksys (evil! evil!), as they're nothing but problems when someone brings one onto our LANs. NetGear puts out much better ones, that play nicely with the rest of your network.. instead of causing massive, multiple hub/switch failure and sporadic disconnections, as Linksys do.
802.11g is what you want to shoot for (54Mbps). There are apparently some that offer 'pseudo-108Mbps', but they aren't worth the extra money. The current *actual* transfer limit is 54.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow you took Cisco too?
I think a wireless router is in need, just make sure the walls inbetween dont have too many wires. They'll block the signal. Get a Linksys, they got cool plugins on "internet" you can download and add many new features... Notice:I didnt say "the internet", its more correct to say internet... Dont ask just is... Internet has many odd things. <!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
'Router' is a misnomer. Actual routers usually run upward of $5-30K apiece.
What you're thinking of is essentially an embedded NAT with wireless support.
They're incredibly insecure, as a lot of people will drive or walk around with certain programs running (warwalking/wardriving) looking for wireless access points (WAPs). At least one includes built-in encryption cracking, as well as password-cracking, allowing instant access to your LAN, from within any firewalls you may have erected.
Wireless networking is also MUCH slower than cabled-networking, by almost an order of magnitude.
In short, you'd be better off grabbing a spool of Cat5 and crimping a custom cable. It's not hard to do.
If you're dedicated toward using a WAP, with all of the monolithic down-sides still in mind, do yourself a favor and stay away from Linksys (evil! evil!), as they're nothing but problems when someone brings one onto our LANs. NetGear puts out much better ones, that play nicely with the rest of your network.. instead of causing massive, multiple hub/switch failure and sporadic disconnections, as Linksys do.
802.11g is what you want to shoot for (54Mbps). There are apparently some that offer 'pseudo-108Mbps', but they aren't worth the extra money. The current *actual* transfer limit is 54.
Answer your questions? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Are they really that slow ?
Also, I thought they could be secured quite nicely.
If there's a problem with the network, literal step one is to cruise the booths looking for people with more than one computer, who only got one 'net drop. See if they've got a hub. If it's a Linksys, ask them to remove it (under the pretense of them having only paid for one computer to be online).
So far, this has fixed all 'mystery glitches'.
And no. WiFi is pitifully easy to crack. Encryption modes, network password... on my 1GHz P3 laptop, it... er.. <i>would take</i> less than a minute, on a problematic WAP, to get in. Simple ones could take less than ten seconds. Of course I'd never do that myself, say, while waiting for the burger-jockeys to get the lunch order right. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Regards
George
Regards
George
Something as simple as that can pick up wireless signals. After that, well, problems ensue.
I say go for customized Cat5, I use it because I actually live in 2 flats, so I have to sprawl that cable all the way to the other flat.
Essentially, that's like taking a combination lock and unlocking it by running through every possible combination, writing down all the wrong ones until you get one that works.
When you factor in known information like defined headers, you get one of the numbers. This takes exponentially less time, literally. Add in best-guess to catch the sync-increment portion of the header, and the fact that if duplicate-packets go by at regular intervals, you can assume that they're a part of the heartbeat, which makes cracking through it much faster (given that you know all the types of heartbeats you'll be looking for, as well as their default timing).
And that's not even counting outright security holes in the firmware. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
'Router' is a misnomer. Actual routers usually run upward of $5-30K apiece.
What you're thinking of is essentially an embedded NAT with wireless support.
They're incredibly insecure, as a lot of people will drive or walk around with certain programs running (warwalking/wardriving) looking for wireless access points (WAPs). At least one includes built-in encryption cracking, as well as password-cracking, allowing instant access to your LAN, from within any firewalls you may have erected.
Wireless networking is also MUCH slower than cabled-networking, by almost an order of magnitude.
In short, you'd be better off grabbing a spool of Cat5 and crimping a custom cable. It's not hard to do.
If you're dedicated toward using a WAP, with all of the monolithic down-sides still in mind, do yourself a favor and stay away from Linksys (evil! evil!), as they're nothing but problems when someone brings one onto our LANs. NetGear puts out much better ones, that play nicely with the rest of your network.. instead of causing massive, multiple hub/switch failure and sporadic disconnections, as Linksys do.
802.11g is what you want to shoot for (54Mbps). There are apparently some that offer 'pseudo-108Mbps', but they aren't worth the extra money. The current *actual* transfer limit is 54.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow you took Cisco too?
I think a wireless router is in need, just make sure the walls inbetween dont have too many wires. They'll block the signal. Get a Linksys, they got cool plugins on "internet" you can download and add many new features...
Notice:I didnt say "the internet", its more correct to say internet...
Dont ask just is... Internet has many odd things. <!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo-->