How Not To Make A Reply Form
Dorian_Gray
Join Date: 2004-02-15 Member: 26581Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2004-02-15 Member: 26581Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Courtesy Valve Software</div> Well, I have an old steam account, and got an email from our favourite Valve employee, Gabe Newell. I know Fam got one too, and they were about dormant accounts. It supplied a link to a reply form to say WHY you don't use steam anymore. Aside from the crappy reasons (my favourites being "I'm waiting for HL2 to come out" and "I went back to playing Counter-Strike 1.5 on WON", since we all know that CS is the only game on steam <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
The email was from <span style='color:white'>Omitted</span>@valvesoftware.com. Now, seeing that PHP security thread a few days ago, made me do a quick test. They failed. Not only can you submit results a bajillion times, but you can enter any email address you want.
Example: <a href='http://www.steampowered.com/?area=dormant&account=gaben@valvesoftware.com' target='_blank'>http://www.steampowered.com/?area=dormant&...lvesoftware.com</a>
At LEAST make it so that only DORMANT accounts can reply to the dormant account survey...
<span style='color:white'>Let's don't make it too easy for the idiots.</span>
The email was from <span style='color:white'>Omitted</span>@valvesoftware.com. Now, seeing that PHP security thread a few days ago, made me do a quick test. They failed. Not only can you submit results a bajillion times, but you can enter any email address you want.
Example: <a href='http://www.steampowered.com/?area=dormant&account=gaben@valvesoftware.com' target='_blank'>http://www.steampowered.com/?area=dormant&...lvesoftware.com</a>
At LEAST make it so that only DORMANT accounts can reply to the dormant account survey...
<span style='color:white'>Let's don't make it too easy for the idiots.</span>
Comments
No, they don't.
They made <i>one</i> good game, and have grown fat and lazy on the profits. Lazy in particular, as this case (and other examples, such as the handling of HL2's release date, the dismal implementation strategy of Steam, etc) shows.
No, they don't.
They made <i>one</i> good game, and have grown fat and lazy on the profits. Lazy in particular, as this case (and other examples, such as the handling of HL2's release date, the dismal implementation strategy of Steam, etc) shows. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do realise they are constantly supporting and patching a 5 year old game, right? How many other games have done that? Like every other games company, Valve could have said "Ok, the game's 2 years old, screw this, no more patches" but they haven't, they have had continual success from Half-Life and unlike any other company in the world, are supporting ancient products with constant updates and new features.
EDIT: And Tequilla, i agree with you. Valve have had more than their "fair share" of criticism from everyone, and it's just extremely tired these days. Seriously, it's like bashing Microsoft. Most of the time nobody gives a damn about your little crusade to put down other people. As Tequilla said, they're human, cut them some goddamn slack.
Yes, because as we know, their web dev. team also works on games.
Yes, because as we know, their web dev. team also works on games. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seriously, is it going to kill Half-Life 2 if you hire someone who knows enough PHP to read the Natural Selection forums?
If you don't like Valves recent decisions, <i>don't</i>. But unless Gabe Newell killed your brother, the attitude you are displaying <i>might</i> be overdrawn.
Would you rather they be making unique identifiers for induividual email responses, or would you rather they work on making games?
Best. Quote. On This Situation. Evar.
No, they don't.
They made <i>one</i> good game, and have grown fat and lazy on the profits. Lazy in particular, as this case (and other examples, such as the handling of HL2's release date, the dismal implementation strategy of Steam, etc) shows. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do realise they are constantly supporting and patching a 5 year old game, right? How many other games have done that? Like every other games company, Valve could have said "Ok, the game's 2 years old, screw this, no more patches" but they haven't, they have had continual success from Half-Life and unlike any other company in the world, are supporting ancient products with constant updates and new features.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, I'm not denying that.
My point is, Valve seem to take a haphazard approach to technology, and in my opinion doesn't really deserve as much credit as they're given. It seems that, whenever given the option, Valve take the easy way out.
They made <i>one</i> game, five years ago, which wasn't even from scratch. And rather than produce more games themselves:<ul><li>They simply patch the existing game. No need to create new content when you can fix up what already exists.</li><li>They're practically the first to release an SDK for their game, and provide fantastic mod community support. That's undeniably a good thing, but it's far easier to throw open your doors to the community and say "Hey, make us some content!" than to write a new game with new content. It means that, suddenly, you've got a massive pool of what are essentially developers <i>which you don't have to pay</i>, and who are doing the work of expanding your game for you.</li><li>They buy up Team Fortress Software, and have Robin Walker make them a flagship mod. Paying people to make games for you is something <i>publishers</i> are supposed to do, not developers.</li><li>"Oh wait, we're not paying them to make games for us... But if we do, we can sell the stuff they make! That way it'll look like we're actually doing anything!"</li><li>Steam. Rather than make a new game, they make an app for selling people their games (that's what "Content Delivery System" means, folks). Furthermore, they don't even bother to make sure it's stable before they release it! That's technical laziness and procrastination rolled into one. (Oh, I have nothing against Steam itself in its present form. I just believe it's unnecessary and poorly executed).</li></ul>Then there's the TF2\Half-Life 2 saga. An excellent example of how Valve are not competant enough as a development house to get a solid, finished product out the door.
Finally: the source code leak. Simply put, the presence of security holes is the result of some degree of ineptitude and disorganisation.
Look, I don't <i>despise</i> them. Valve being incompetant isn't <i>my</i> problem, and, so far, I haven't been directly affected by it. But I don't have any respect for them, as developers.
In short, Valve seem to be far better at selling games and getting other people to do their work for them than actually making games themselves (like a certain other software company I could mention). Frankly, I don't know what their publishers pay them for.
Woo!
It also means I get to play around with the source engine before a lot of people.
Which is a good thing.
It also means I get to play around with the source engine before a lot of people.
Which is a good thing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dont fall for it! Its just another scheme to make more than 10 people Buy Condition Zero! Nooo!
The email was from <span style='color:white'>Omitted</span>@valvesoftware.com. Now, seeing that PHP security thread a few days ago, made me do a quick test. They failed. Not only can you submit results a bajillion times, but you can enter any email address you want.
Example: <a href='http://www.steampowered.com/?area=dormant&account=gaben@valvesoftware.com' target='_blank'>http://www.steampowered.com/?area=dormant&...lvesoftware.com</a>
At LEAST make it so that only DORMANT accounts can reply to the dormant account survey...
<span style='color:white'>Let's don't make it too easy for the idiots.</span> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I got it to, even tho i logged in last week....
Best. Quote. On This Situation. Evar. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
Theres not much point buying it just to play the CS:S beta though.
At the end of the beta Valve remove your access, so, yeah.
* They simply patch the existing game. No need to create new content when you can fix up what already exists.
* They're practically the first to release an SDK for their game, and provide fantastic mod community support. That's undeniably a good thing, but it's far easier to throw open your doors to the community and say "Hey, make us some content!" than to write a new game with new content. It means that, suddenly, you've got a massive pool of what are essentially developers which you don't have to pay, and who are doing the work of expanding your game for you.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, they do not simply patch the game. They have been working on HL2 for allmost 6 years now. Making a game engine more or less from scratch takes ALOT of time.
Letting any users make maps, make sounds, make models and make total modifications has been both appreciated by the users and by VALVe so it's a win win situation. It's due to this that I and everyone else have gotten half a dussin games for the price of one, among which one of the best single-player games of all time. This is a great move, for everyone.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
* They buy up Team Fortress Software, and have Robin Walker make them a flagship mod. Paying people to make games for you is something publishers are supposed to do, not developers.
* "Oh wait, we're not paying them to make games for us... But if we do, we can sell the stuff they make! That way it'll look like we're actually doing anything!"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They are working on HL2, they went right back at it after HL1, they ARE doing something. Do you want them to churn out junk and ignore their customers when they have released it like some or do you want them to take their time and attempt to create a masterpiece meanwhile providing lots of nifty free upgrades and descent patches and support?(yes, I consider getting TFC, much much better net code than the horrible one it shipped with(subjective, but this newer netcode can be turned off on the server, but I haven't ever seen anyone do that), VAC, steam and opposing force for free(with steam, including SP) descent patches and upgrades)
VALVe isn't a great company, I'll give it to you. And I doubt that if they made a game in 2 years that it'd be up to par as much as Call of Duty or the such great games that don't take that long.
But they have 1 thing- PERSISTENCE. HL1 took a long time, and when it came out, it won the most awards for 1 game in the history of games. In fact, it won more awards than even the most popular movie of all time! And has sold more copies than even Hybrid Theory, the album which stayed #1 on the Billboard sales charts for 40 weeks(52 weeks in the year, people).
With HL2, their doing the same as HL1. Taking their time, and making a damned good game to shatter everyone's expectations. They take longer than the average developer to make a decent game- but at least they take a long, long time, to release the best game they've ever made, and one of the(if not the) best games EVER.
let's hope you're right and it's not another daikatana <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
for the people flaming valve, I don't feel all that strongly about it, but I agree that they should show a little (a lot?) better management than they have...
and to the people flaming the people flaming valve, while I agree there isn't much of a reason to complain about a game company you have nothing to do with, I think there's doubly no excuse for insulting other members of this forum... I mean, is it honestly worth insulting and alienating people you post and chat with every day just to defend some game company none of us has anything directly to do with?
we're all here because we love Valve. some of us are happy just knowing she's there; some of us are mad she's not putting out (games)... no need to fight over her, there's enough to go around.