I wanted to make a post about NS moving to my games too. Guess ya beat me to it. But, What i wanted to suggest is that we will get a massive migration of players into the player base. I say NS should capitalize on this. We should get as many of those players to stick around. Thats why i think we need a few map makers to make a in game tutorial, explaining buildings, gestations, and movements. Then submit it to Flayra. Cause the dev team is busy and dont haev the time to do this, which is why some mapmaker should do it. If i could make maps I would but since I cant i'd wish some nice people would create a tutorial for the new people that we will recieve
What will happen to the NS community will probobly not be predictable here. It is safe to say that the only way to truly prepare is to take the precautions Jink is proposing.
Be nice. Be kind. Be understanding. Like Roosevelt's three R's, we've got our own NS three B's. And to the scheptic saying that noone will change from a post; wrong. Positive reinforcement helps keep people nice and his view puts a dent in the reasoning of those who hate newbs. Why be negative when all he was putting fourth was good vibes?
cs players might have a tough time adjusting to ns....with all the headshotting and camping and sniping and stuff.
but there's always the ns 3.0 manual, ns forums and the ns guides which are coming soon whom they can go to for help
but i hope that the influx of cs players into the ns community will not bring about a ns community full of hackers with a bad attitude...like wat the cs community is today
I think it would be best if the CSers tried Combat before Classic. It's not as hard to pick up on, because it won't involve any res node nonsense, and they'll be used to leveling up in a FPS thanks to the Warcraft 3 CS servers. It should say that in one of the cl_autohelp things. "If this is your first time, you want to try NS:Combat before Classic." Or something like that.
Have you not played at all since 3.0 went to public beta? About half the voice comm on any given pub these days is devoted to wishing that "co nubs" weren't so annoying, ill-mannered, unskilled, lackwitted, and numerous. The idea of using combat as a teaching tool has always been a terrible one.
if anything co makes nsc harder to pick up on because of the imperfect com that cannt drop med/ammo right on you and the ease of killing hive one kharaa.
(the big one "team work")
edit..
btw i think the game will be in the "my games" without downloading it first. i have a few that i dont play and never bothered to download. they are in "my games" dispite my not haveing them.
dont call me an **** but... if you ask me, i dont want ns to grow, more players makes for more **** and when ns is loaded with ****, then there wont be a game this 2 bit beast can run that isnt overloaded with stupid ai, impossable ai, and jerks running around.
sigh... nothing i can do, and it would be best to let them do what they want, ns isnt my game, its uw's game and if they want it to be popular, let them have it popular.
do what jink (sorry if thats not your name) wants you to do, stay calm and if they ask what a gorge is, dont say "OMG RTFM YOU NOOB!!! BANNED!!" just tell them "Its the ailen that builds stuff, you should just say skulk now though until you get the hang of things" i know ill do it. so should you.
<!--QuoteBegin-Jink Jink+Jul 9 2004, 07:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jink Jink @ Jul 9 2004, 07:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Now NS has a very, very steep learning curve, and is one of the hardest games to get started in. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I beg to differ. There are basically only 2 types of weapons in NS, hitscan and melee, niether of which require much skill to be good at. While you may not understand the importance of res control and technology hierarchies your first game, you can learn the fighting system and be good at it after 2 minutes.
Anyone with any fps experience could join marine and do a good job first try.
<!--QuoteBegin-skifly+Jul 11 2004, 11:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (skifly @ Jul 11 2004, 11:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> While you may not understand the importance of res control and technology hierarchies your first game, you can learn the fighting system and be good at it after 2 minutes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Right... but which one of these factors is more important? Also, what about following orders, teamplay, tactical skill, and the use of special equipment/higher lifeforms?
My two bits, I don't think it'll make much difference in the size of the playerbase after the initial curiosity wears off. CS / DoD didn't get popular because they were on some magic list. They are popular because people find them fun. NS has too many problems currently to appeal to a broad player base.
Some say that a tutorial for NS would not help? I would have to disagree...a well-made tutorial which goes through both the marine and khaara side (would be a hell of a lot of scripts in this tutorial lol), would do wonders...
For the marine side, it'd start off with the basics, and then move on on what all the weapons and items are, to how to build and then finally the command chair...
Khaara side...first explains the hive system, then goes through the resource system and compare it to the marine before moving to each and every alien evolution and all their abilities...
And this tutorial would both demonstrate and allow the player to try everything out one time...
As I said, such a tutorial would be insanely scripted but on the other hand it would help anyone who would bother looking into it. And IMHO, a tutorial is a must...BUT it would help a lot, and certainly make NS much more friendly...because honestly, NS may be a difficult game to get into, but once you know it, you will find that there isn't that much to it after all...but it's the getting into that discourages people...
I think we need some sort of training room tbh. Just as you learned the basics of HL, teach them the basics of beeing an alien or gorge. Or perhaps someone needs to make a movie which shows what armories are, what you should attack etc.
HL and CS both a have training sections before you play the game. When I first played in 1.04 I read the manual before playing but it ment nothing. I agree with the above post.
I also think 1.04 was easier to learn. 1 person gorge. That person acted like the commander telling everyone else what to do. You couldn't go other lifeforms (other than lerk) untill second hive went up and when it did, you wanted just about everyone to fade.
Now you need 4 or 5 gorges. Someone saving for hive, DC,s and others going lerk and fades. On top of this you have to work together without a designated leader. Alot easier protecting 1 gorge then 3.
No one has still addressed that you'll have to download the game first (possibly, could we get dev confirmation on this?) for it to appear under "My Games". If one doesn't have to download it, will Valve host the downloads for all the updates or something, and we no longer need to go to the website?
Let's pretend for a bit that it doesn't appear under my games without actually downloading and installing the game. I don't think we'd get a single new player. Now, let's pretend that it DOES appear under my games without downloading it, but when you click on the icon, it instead brings you to the NS homepage (Because Valve doesn't want to host downloads for it). Far less than 10% of the CS players would try it, considering the crazy steps you have to go through just to play the game.
I believe there wouldn't be many crazy steps at all. Assuming it did take you to the homepage, all it would take is checking out the downloads section. By the time NS goes on the My Games list, there should be one finalized download to install it. If there isn't, I'm sure folks can handle installing 3 files.
1) people who constantly ask questions, get things wrong but follow orders and chat a lot.
2) silent noobs who camp in order to steal expensive equiptment and then run off some place stupid and die, idiots who can't even be bothered to learn.
I don't mind answering questions and playing with those types of newbies, but the second type I can't stand! I don't think those people are very beneficial to the community.
<!--QuoteBegin-Grahf+Jul 13 2004, 02:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grahf @ Jul 13 2004, 02:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> More people can only be good. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree.
I don't think that tutorial maps, ingame hints etc. will make it any easier than it is just now. What we need is a video tutorial explaining the basics of ns that runs when you startup ns, at least for the first time, though probably until they disable it in options or whatever.
Just like an intro to ns, showing 3rd person battles, showing gorges dropping res, chambers, showing commander setting up base, dropping res for marines, gorge dropping hives etc etc.
Overlay some well presented voiceovers, and you'll get the basics of the game to every single person that starts it up for the first time.
I'd hope that some of the playtesters could do this while playtesting the new version, seeing as it's the only time you get a sizable group of people together who're fully clued up. Smart it up a bit and do the voiceovers, and get it in for b5 or whenever ns goes public on steam.
Perhaps a demo showing the basics of playing on each team, lifeforms, weapons and such. Possibly even a commanding tutorial. It should be set up so they can pick what demo they want to watch, so that if they want to learn more about onosing they won't have to go through the skulk tutorial. I think demos wouldn't be too difficult to set up that way, though it would need to be integrated into the GUI so that new people can actually find it.
An easy-to-access training mode for maps wouldn't be bad either. The current way to set up a single-player game is rather obscure, so if it were also integrated into the trainint area of the GUI they would be able to play by themselves and try out weapons and such. Cheat mode would need to be on for this and it could easily use an existing map.
A few lines of text telling them the major cheat codes they could use in training mode would also be helpful. I think that bigdig and givepoints are the most important ones they would need to know.
aonomusDedicated NS Mastermind (no need for school)Join Date: 2003-11-26Member: 23605Members, Constellation
NSGuides or SOME other form of tutorial BETTER be done, otherwise I'm going to ignore all the CSers that come over... I think ill rather just stay and go play RO on that day rather..,
Comments
I'm more annoyed at all the people who claim they're from Cal-I anyway~
Be nice. Be kind. Be understanding. Like Roosevelt's three R's, we've got our own NS three B's. And to the scheptic saying that noone will change from a post; wrong. Positive reinforcement helps keep people nice and his view puts a dent in the reasoning of those who hate newbs. Why be negative when all he was putting fourth was good vibes?
but there's always the ns 3.0 manual, ns forums and the ns guides which are coming soon whom they can go to for help
but i hope that the influx of cs players into the ns community will not bring about a ns community full of hackers with a bad attitude...like wat the cs community is today
anyway....
cs players = marine stackage
Have you not played at all since 3.0 went to public beta? About half the voice comm on any given pub these days is devoted to wishing that "co nubs" weren't so annoying, ill-mannered, unskilled, lackwitted, and numerous. The idea of using combat as a teaching tool has always been a terrible one.
but you said it far better.
if anything co makes nsc harder to pick up on because of the imperfect com that cannt drop med/ammo right on you and the ease of killing hive one kharaa.
(the big one "team work")
edit..
btw i think the game will be in the "my games" without downloading it first. i have a few that i dont play and never bothered to download. they are in "my games" dispite my not haveing them.
sigh... nothing i can do, and it would be best to let them do what they want, ns isnt my game, its uw's game and if they want it to be popular, let them have it popular.
do what jink (sorry if thats not your name) wants you to do, stay calm and if they ask what a gorge is, dont say "OMG RTFM YOU NOOB!!! BANNED!!" just tell them "Its the ailen that builds stuff, you should just say skulk now though until you get the hang of things" i know ill do it. so should you.
teach them to play.
I beg to differ. There are basically only 2 types of weapons in NS, hitscan and melee, niether of which require much skill to be good at. While you may not understand the importance of res control and technology hierarchies your first game, you can learn the fighting system and be good at it after 2 minutes.
Anyone with any fps experience could join marine and do a good job first try.
Right... but which one of these factors is more important? Also, what about following orders, teamplay, tactical skill, and the use of special equipment/higher lifeforms?
For the marine side, it'd start off with the basics, and then move on on what all the weapons and items are, to how to build and then finally the command chair...
Khaara side...first explains the hive system, then goes through the resource system and compare it to the marine before moving to each and every alien evolution and all their abilities...
And this tutorial would both demonstrate and allow the player to try everything out one time...
As I said, such a tutorial would be insanely scripted but on the other hand it would help anyone who would bother looking into it. And IMHO, a tutorial is a must...BUT it would help a lot, and certainly make NS much more friendly...because honestly, NS may be a difficult game to get into, but once you know it, you will find that there isn't that much to it after all...but it's the getting into that discourages people...
I also think 1.04 was easier to learn. 1 person gorge. That person acted like the commander telling everyone else what to do. You couldn't go other lifeforms (other than lerk) untill second hive went up and when it did, you wanted just about everyone to fade.
Now you need 4 or 5 gorges. Someone saving for hive, DC,s and others going lerk and fades. On top of this you have to work together without a designated leader. Alot easier protecting 1 gorge then 3.
Let's pretend for a bit that it doesn't appear under my games without actually downloading and installing the game. I don't think we'd get a single new player. Now, let's pretend that it DOES appear under my games without downloading it, but when you click on the icon, it instead brings you to the NS homepage (Because Valve doesn't want to host downloads for it). Far less than 10% of the CS players would try it, considering the crazy steps you have to go through just to play the game.
1) people who constantly ask questions, get things wrong but follow orders and chat a lot.
2) silent noobs who camp in order to steal expensive equiptment and then run off some place stupid and die, idiots who can't even be bothered to learn.
I don't mind answering questions and playing with those types of newbies, but the second type I can't stand! I don't think those people are very beneficial to the community.
If I want to install it to someone else without downloading it again, should I only copy the .gcf file on their steam dir?
I agree.
Just like an intro to ns, showing 3rd person battles, showing gorges dropping res, chambers, showing commander setting up base, dropping res for marines, gorge dropping hives etc etc.
Overlay some well presented voiceovers, and you'll get the basics of the game to every single person that starts it up for the first time.
I'd hope that some of the playtesters could do this while playtesting the new version, seeing as it's the only time you get a sizable group of people together who're fully clued up. Smart it up a bit and do the voiceovers, and get it in for b5 or whenever ns goes public on steam.
Ja?
An easy-to-access training mode for maps wouldn't be bad either. The current way to set up a single-player game is rather obscure, so if it were also integrated into the trainint area of the GUI they would be able to play by themselves and try out weapons and such. Cheat mode would need to be on for this and it could easily use an existing map.
A few lines of text telling them the major cheat codes they could use in training mode would also be helpful. I think that bigdig and givepoints are the most important ones they would need to know.
What do you guys think?