But the Santa Cruz card doesn't support 7.1 surround, which is the kind of speaker package I was getting. I can't believe CL would do something like that.
<!--QuoteBegin-TychoCelchuuu+Jul 19 2004, 04:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TychoCelchuuu @ Jul 19 2004, 04:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-TommyVercetti+Jul 19 2004, 06:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TommyVercetti @ Jul 19 2004, 06:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Each site I go to is eiher "nVidia rules," or "ATi is God."
I guess honest reporting got dumped a while back, eh?
Really all I want is a card that will run HL2, Doom III, and STALKER well enough for me to play with settings maxed at 1280x1024 res with a framerate above sixty. And it has to stay good for at least a year and a half to two years. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Quite possibly the both r0x0rz j00r b0x0rz. I'd go with ATI personally; sucks less power. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Tycho is correct. Both cards are most excellent. Their performance are very similar and their pro's and con's can be counted on 1 hand each. So regardless of what you choose, you'll have a card that'll last for quite a while, and will do nicely in every game coming out for the next 12 months.
If money isn't a problem, and AA matters to you, you should go for ATI's cards, whereas Nvidia's cards seem to be slightly faster without, so it might last slightly longer in that respect.
Now that I've decided which card to buy with certainty (X800), you've got me nervous about the sound card... I mean, I've never had any trouble with the Creative Labs SoundBlaster Live! Value I have now, and it's a great card. I was hoping to have an Audigy 2 in my new computer, but now that I hear there is a conflict between CL cards and the processor, I'm at a loss. Are these isolated incidents in which the problem occurs, and if they aren't, will it ever be fixed in a driver patch? I hope there is some way I can get the two components to co-exist, because the Santa Cruz doesn't have the 7.1 surround I want.
<!--QuoteBegin-spinviper+Jul 19 2004, 05:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (spinviper @ Jul 19 2004, 05:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Defiance+Jul 19 2004, 01:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Defiance @ Jul 19 2004, 01:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> After tons of garbage driver problems, and incompatablility with certain VIA chipsets, I will never buy another ATI card for as long as I live. RADEON 9600XT's do not work with VIA KT600 Chipsets, regardless of the motherboard model or manufactor. I'm not saying their cards bad in terms of hardware and how well they can run games, I'm saying their cards are bad in terms of garbage drivers and compatability issues. The most you can get out of that card in that situation is 4x AGP mode - half of what it can really do.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you sure? I have another computer that uses the VIA KT600 Chipset and it works perfectly.. no driver problems. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've read a lot of customer reviews and hardware reviews, and all the ones I've read state that the card will not work in 8x AGP mode with that motherboard chipset, it didn't in their case, and it didn't in mine. You got lucky or something, I don't know how to explain it, so good for you.
-edit
Wow... driver problem eh? Thanks man. Perhaps I'll reconsider my video card choice now since there is a fix for it.
<!--QuoteBegin-TommyVercetti+Jul 19 2004, 03:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TommyVercetti @ Jul 19 2004, 03:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I feel like I'm caught in the crossfire...
What exactly does PS3.0 do? Right now I think I'm going with the X800 because I like the brute force it offers and Talesin says the drivers could be modified at a later date to support PS3.0 (but would they be official drivers?). I don't have the cash for two nVidias right now, and I'm not too keen on the whole two slot thing...
[edit] Thanks for the heads up on the Creative card. Are they going to release a fix later? I don't really know any other decent cards, and this is the first time I've heard of this issue anywhere. [/edit] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> www.outpost.com Tommy
They have SB16 PCI's on their website which are probably just as good as those Audigy ones. I'm getting one. I had the same exact problem that Talsen described.
I had a AudigyLS... did exactly what Talsen described. DON'T GET IT. DON'T GET ANY AUDIGY MODELS. The SB16 has EAX support and all the other basic stuff, it might not "sound" as good as the newer models, but I would rather have something that will work and not **** up your computer in the process.
<a href='http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=29-118-106&depa=0' target='_blank'>this</a> might be an OK card... doesn't have many reviews, but it is 7.1
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
both of those card will perform extremely well in the games you described (though you might not get 60fps constant with <b>either</b> card in doom3 (after all,its doom3...)
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
Kinda pricy <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Are you sure for that monitor? Anandtech recommend a delicious monitor for not that much <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Free Far Cry DVD Game:</b> Of course<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Would this mean you'll have TWO copies of Far Cry lying around when you get your machine?
Don't bet on SLI. I really don't want 4 PCI-X slots taken up, and i don't want to have to splice dual PSU's or get a 600W monster PSU with 50 molexes.
my radeon is nice and quiet, and runs well on a 350w psu. I'd like to see that happen with an nVdia card <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
SLI will be powerful. That was proven back in the Voodoo 1 days, when it first was usable. (And I have a Creative Monster3D with the headers to prove it!)
However. It will be everything it was back then. Expensive, cumbersome, awkward, and large. But it'll be fast. It'll outpace everything else. But it'll remain the realm of the rich-boy... so it'll be a 'bragging rights' tool. NOT a commonplace unit.
Hell, if they were dedicated to truly integrated SLI, they'd just toss two of their chips on the same card, saving on traces, RAM usage, cooling impact, and possibly even power and/or wasted space. But they can't do that... ATi already had, after all. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> (ATi Rage Fury MAXX, dualchip Rage128 SLI single-card)
Tommy, I'd get into the explanations of exactly why 7.1 sound is unneccessary and mostly is used by Creative... whose prime market is <b>NOT</b> soundcards.. but speakers. Just make absolutely certain that the Mad Dog card (only vaguely remember hearing of them in the past) is not a derivative of the EMU10K1 chip.
And no. There is no patch in sight. Creative Labs insists that Windows should catch the condition.. that it's Microsoft's fault, even though it clearly states in the PCI spec that CL is in the wrong, and needs to handle the condition. Creative can't be assed to spend the money to fix the problem. They're too busy selling seven, ten, and thirty-speaker rigs to the marks.
Alrighty then, I'll check the Mad Dog and see if it's not what you said. The speakers I'm getting are made by Creative, they're Inspires so they're pretty cheap but there are 7 of them. Besides, if they end up sucking I already have plans to get a really good headset with a mic.
<!--QuoteBegin-TommyVercetti+Jul 19 2004, 11:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TommyVercetti @ Jul 19 2004, 11:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I already have plans to get a really good headset with a mic. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Altec Lansing AHS 502. Crystal clear mic, comfy padding, easily adjustable. Available at Buest Buy with 2 year warranty for ~$50. I've dropped mine, kicked them, folded up the cord, set stuff on the cord - all without a problem. They are great.
I have read through most of this and have come to a conclusion: Everyone is argueing which one is better but not giving any information for someone wanting a good video card.
My question between this entire war is: Which one is more affordable? I've seen the x800 for $400 at some areas, but I have seen the 6800 with 256MB for around $350 at other places. It's not the cheapest I'm after though, it's which one will last longer for me? When I buy one of these monster cards, I want to be able to use it for at LEAST 1.5-2 years before even having to consider the idea that I might need an upgrade. By then, I will be getting a new computer pretty much since I would hopefully be able to afford the new PCIX and DDR2 that comes out. Which one has better support? I bought a Radeon back in the day when they were still emerging, and I had so many troubles with it. Mainly, it WOULD NOT allow me to play HL online. I try to start-up a online game, my computer would make some electronic noise, my connection would be disconnected and my game would freeze. GG. It took ATI MONTHS, to release drivers that allowed me to be able and play online again. Would I possibley have the same trouble with an X800 or has ATi gotten straight and started releasing drivers that work correctly? Which one would still play all my old games? I'm not talking about just HL and SC and all those old well played ones. I have many games that you find in the bargin bin now, that I love to play. Hell, I have one back from 1999 that I have been firing up lately because I love it so much. It owuld be pointless to ask which one will play the new games comming out the best because they haven't come out, and we don't know how they would play on each card yet.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
For the last damn time, it doesn't MATTER how much RAM the video card has on it. Nowadays, only THREE games even use more than 128MB, much less come close.
The $350 6800 you saw was the lowest-end. It was the cheapo. The underperformer, compared to its contemporaries.
I would personally buy an X800 XTPE for myself, if I had the money set aside. It is <b>the</b> fastest card on the market. Its closest competitor (SLI aside) is the 6800 Ultra Extreme.. a golden sample card that will most likely prove a PITA to find. And with the small price difference between the X800 Pro ($400), but the noticeable performance hike, it's worth outlaying the extra cash for a card whose performance will most likely last longer than any of the others.
X800 XTPE - $500 msrp, bulk quantities available (easy to find) 6800 UE - $700 msrp, slower, very few available (good luck)
The Catalyst drivers are light-years ahead of what they used to be. Incompatabilities are an extreme rarity, and only a few games show graphical glitches (City of Heroes, the specular highlights are not exactly correct, but still display to a point where you won't really notice). People HAVE complained about performance under Steam, but there are just as many who saw no problems. A proper setup (max AGP enabled, fast writes off, triple buffering enabled, vsync on) will correct the performance in the majority of cases.
Okay, I've already confirmed the parts I'm getting, the Mad Dog sound card and the X800XTPE. Feel free to discuss in my thread, but it's not going to effect my decision.
Sorry for being a tiny bit offtopic but i'm having trouble finding some online hardware stores that ship 'my' X800 XTPE and other parts to europe ( netherlands ).
InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
<!--QuoteBegin-Talesin+Jul 19 2004, 07:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Jul 19 2004, 07:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> TommyVercetti, you've run into one of the basic problems. Do NOT use a Creative Labs card on any Ath64 machine. CL has screwed up the drivers, to where they do not catch an 'ACPI race condition'... the short version being, if you're running Windows on it, and go into a 3D game, or use a network card, the machine will randomly blackscreen and reboot with no warning. This is PURELY Creative Labs' fault, in the manner in which they wrote their drivers. The cards before the SBLive! will work fine, if you can still find an old SB16-PCI... but SBLive, Audigy, and Audigy2 (which are all the same damn card, honestly) will cause this behaviour because the Ath64 processors (including the FX line) require ACPI to be enabled. I've had to pull my own SBLive from the machine due to this little glitch. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Is there any worthy alternative to the Creative soundcards that you can recommend for this scenario? (Other than an SB16-PCI, heh.)
<!--QuoteBegin-Birdy+Jul 20 2004, 11:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Birdy @ Jul 20 2004, 11:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sorry for being a tiny bit offtopic but i'm having trouble finding some online hardware stores that ship 'my' X800 XTPE and other parts to europe ( netherlands ).
If you could link me up, thanks <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Holy christ the VAT on that'll kill you...
<!--QuoteBegin-Insane+Jul 20 2004, 12:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Insane @ Jul 20 2004, 12:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Is there any worthy alternative to the Creative soundcards that you can recommend for this scenario? (Other than an SB16-PCI, heh.) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The one I'm getting, the Mad Dog Entertainer 7.1 DSP should work just fine.
It's in my name, which company do you think I like? I have tried many nVidia cards and many ATi cards, my AIM name is FX5800Ultra but I hate that card, waste of money, I am now a loyal ATi owner / supporter, I keep an open-mind but ATi is the winner in the race of "best-damn gfx cards" for the time being.
Don't start crying now nVidia fanboys, times change, technology changes faster than the speed of light... (well actually according to moore's law it's more lik every 7 months but who's really counting, eh?) nVidia will be back, mark my words, they'll have their day and ATi will be going, "Holy Crap"
Now... just imagine... *shiver* DarknVidia... it doesn't flow... no sir...
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Actually, nVidia just did have their day. Or three days, to be precise... the time between when they unveiled the 6800 Ultra, and the time that ATi revealed the x800 XTPE.
Must be frustrating to get back the speed crown, only to lose it again so soon.
As to sound cards, I can't help but recommend the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz. It's got great positional audio. The fact of the matter is, given that you only have two ears, you should only need two speakers. This was what was assumed by Aureal, when they created the Vortex sound card. Their A3D technology was excellent... it blew EAX out of the water, utilizing the actual level geometry to generate a soundscape. Of course, given that it only used two speakers (or a headset) and duplicated what '7.1' rigs currently can do, this meant a big profit cut for Creative. What to do, what to do... duh. Litigate.
They tied Aureal up in a lawsuit for the majority of their business life. Then once Aureal was forced to go bankrupt, unable to pay the lawyer's fees, Creative bought the company and all its intellectual property. They then proceeded to sit on A3D, safe in their profits.
They still are sitting on the technology to this day. Many high-end competative HL players will still use Win98 and an Aureal Vortex, or Vortex 2 for their unparalleled performance (and don't EVEN talk to be about 'A3D emulation', as it's crap). As with the tech under wraps, Creative did not even allow WinXP drivers to be written for the card, though the original coders wanted to.
Marik_SteeleTo rule in hell...Join Date: 2002-11-20Member: 9466Members
edited July 2004
<!--QuoteBegin-Talesin+Jul 20 2004, 04:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Jul 20 2004, 04:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [...] Many high-end competative HL players will still use Win98 and an Aureal Vortex, or Vortex 2 for their unparalleled performance (and don't EVEN talk to be about 'A3D emulation', as it's crap). As with the tech under wraps, Creative did not even allow WinXP drivers to be written for the card, though the original coders wanted to. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> There are other reasons for this besides sound quality. Highly-competitive CS players have run tests of the HL engine with multiple cheats on to give developer-like debugging info through logfiles and/or the console. Every bit of evidence points to A3D Sound-supporting cards playing audio at around twice the range an EAX card will. Translation: while your own ears may or may not be good enough to actually hear such low volumes of distant events, your speakers on an A3D card *will* output the footstep noises of an approaching enemy twice as soon as an EAX card will. That's a serious competitive advantage during (example) rounds of CS where many players are dead and most others are seriously wounded, sneaking around.
[edit]<a href='http://www.summerblue.net/games/cs_report/4_7_audibility.html' target='_blank'>link</a> to the tests where I read this.
Comments
I guess honest reporting got dumped a while back, eh?
Really all I want is a card that will run HL2, Doom III, and STALKER well enough for me to play with settings maxed at 1280x1024 res with a framerate above sixty. And it has to stay good for at least a year and a half to two years. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quite possibly the both r0x0rz j00r b0x0rz. I'd go with ATI personally; sucks less power. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tycho is correct. Both cards are most excellent. Their performance are very similar and their pro's and con's can be counted on 1 hand each. So regardless of what you choose, you'll have a card that'll last for quite a while, and will do nicely in every game coming out for the next 12 months.
If money isn't a problem, and AA matters to you, you should go for ATI's cards, whereas Nvidia's cards seem to be slightly faster without, so it might last slightly longer in that respect.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you sure? I have another computer that uses the VIA KT600 Chipset and it works perfectly.. no driver problems. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've read a lot of customer reviews and hardware reviews, and all the ones I've read state that the card will not work in 8x AGP mode with that motherboard chipset, it didn't in their case, and it didn't in mine. You got lucky or something, I don't know how to explain it, so good for you.
-edit
Wow... driver problem eh? Thanks man. Perhaps I'll reconsider my video card choice now since there is a fix for it.
What exactly does PS3.0 do? Right now I think I'm going with the X800 because I like the brute force it offers and Talesin says the drivers could be modified at a later date to support PS3.0 (but would they be official drivers?). I don't have the cash for two nVidias right now, and I'm not too keen on the whole two slot thing...
[edit] Thanks for the heads up on the Creative card. Are they going to release a fix later? I don't really know any other decent cards, and this is the first time I've heard of this issue anywhere. [/edit] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
www.outpost.com Tommy
They have SB16 PCI's on their website which are probably just as good as those Audigy ones. I'm getting one. I had the same exact problem that Talsen described.
<a href='http://shop4.outpost.com/product/2516671' target='_blank'>http://shop4.outpost.com/product/2516671</a>
I had a AudigyLS... did exactly what Talsen described. DON'T GET IT. DON'T GET ANY AUDIGY MODELS. The SB16 has EAX support and all the other basic stuff, it might not "sound" as good as the newer models, but I would rather have something that will work and not **** up your computer in the process.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> doublepost <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And no Game Port! :O
Why?
YOU CAN'T GET DRIVERS.
Damned Audigy.
Don't bet on SLI. I really don't want 4 PCI-X slots taken up, and i don't want to have to splice dual PSU's or get a 600W monster PSU with 50 molexes.
my radeon is nice and quiet, and runs well on a 350w psu. I'd like to see that happen with an nVdia card <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
However. It will be everything it was back then. Expensive, cumbersome, awkward, and large. But it'll be fast. It'll outpace everything else. But it'll remain the realm of the rich-boy... so it'll be a 'bragging rights' tool. NOT a commonplace unit.
Hell, if they were dedicated to truly integrated SLI, they'd just toss two of their chips on the same card, saving on traces, RAM usage, cooling impact, and possibly even power and/or wasted space. But they can't do that... ATi already had, after all. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> (ATi Rage Fury MAXX, dualchip Rage128 SLI single-card)
Tommy, I'd get into the explanations of exactly why 7.1 sound is unneccessary and mostly is used by Creative... whose prime market is <b>NOT</b> soundcards.. but speakers.
Just make absolutely certain that the Mad Dog card (only vaguely remember hearing of them in the past) is not a derivative of the EMU10K1 chip.
And no. There is no patch in sight. Creative Labs insists that Windows should catch the condition.. that it's Microsoft's fault, even though it clearly states in the PCI spec that CL is in the wrong, and needs to handle the condition. Creative can't be assed to spend the money to fix the problem. They're too busy selling seven, ten, and thirty-speaker rigs to the marks.
Altec Lansing AHS 502. Crystal clear mic, comfy padding, easily adjustable. Available at Buest Buy with 2 year warranty for ~$50. I've dropped mine, kicked them, folded up the cord, set stuff on the cord - all without a problem. They are great.
*edit* like $10, possibly free if you get a rebate
My question between this entire war is:
Which one is more affordable? I've seen the x800 for $400 at some areas, but I have seen the 6800 with 256MB for around $350 at other places. It's not the cheapest I'm after though, it's which one will last longer for me? When I buy one of these monster cards, I want to be able to use it for at LEAST 1.5-2 years before even having to consider the idea that I might need an upgrade. By then, I will be getting a new computer pretty much since I would hopefully be able to afford the new PCIX and DDR2 that comes out. Which one has better support? I bought a Radeon back in the day when they were still emerging, and I had so many troubles with it. Mainly, it WOULD NOT allow me to play HL online. I try to start-up a online game, my computer would make some electronic noise, my connection would be disconnected and my game would freeze. GG. It took ATI MONTHS, to release drivers that allowed me to be able and play online again. Would I possibley have the same trouble with an X800 or has ATi gotten straight and started releasing drivers that work correctly? Which one would still play all my old games? I'm not talking about just HL and SC and all those old well played ones. I have many games that you find in the bargin bin now, that I love to play. Hell, I have one back from 1999 that I have been firing up lately because I love it so much. It owuld be pointless to ask which one will play the new games comming out the best because they haven't come out, and we don't know how they would play on each card yet.
That is my question.
The $350 6800 you saw was the lowest-end. It was the cheapo. The underperformer, compared to its contemporaries.
I would personally buy an X800 XTPE for myself, if I had the money set aside. It is <b>the</b> fastest card on the market. Its closest competitor (SLI aside) is the 6800 Ultra Extreme.. a golden sample card that will most likely prove a PITA to find. And with the small price difference between the X800 Pro ($400), but the noticeable performance hike, it's worth outlaying the extra cash for a card whose performance will most likely last longer than any of the others.
X800 XTPE - $500 msrp, bulk quantities available (easy to find)
6800 UE - $700 msrp, slower, very few available (good luck)
The Catalyst drivers are light-years ahead of what they used to be. Incompatabilities are an extreme rarity, and only a few games show graphical glitches (City of Heroes, the specular highlights are not exactly correct, but still display to a point where you won't really notice). People HAVE complained about performance under Steam, but there are just as many who saw no problems. A proper setup (max AGP enabled, fast writes off, triple buffering enabled, vsync on) will correct the performance in the majority of cases.
If you could link me up, thanks
Is there any worthy alternative to the Creative soundcards that you can recommend for this scenario? (Other than an SB16-PCI, heh.)
If you could link me up, thanks <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Holy christ the VAT on that'll kill you...
The one I'm getting, the Mad Dog Entertainer 7.1 DSP should work just fine.
Don't start crying now nVidia fanboys, times change, technology changes faster than the speed of light... (well actually according to moore's law it's more lik every 7 months but who's really counting, eh?) nVidia will be back, mark my words, they'll have their day and ATi will be going, "Holy Crap"
Now... just imagine... *shiver* DarknVidia... it doesn't flow... no sir...
~ DarkATi
Must be frustrating to get back the speed crown, only to lose it again so soon.
As to sound cards, I can't help but recommend the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz. It's got great positional audio.
The fact of the matter is, given that you only have two ears, you should only need two speakers. This was what was assumed by Aureal, when they created the Vortex sound card. Their A3D technology was excellent... it blew EAX out of the water, utilizing the actual level geometry to generate a soundscape.
Of course, given that it only used two speakers (or a headset) and duplicated what '7.1' rigs currently can do, this meant a big profit cut for Creative. What to do, what to do... duh.
Litigate.
They tied Aureal up in a lawsuit for the majority of their business life. Then once Aureal was forced to go bankrupt, unable to pay the lawyer's fees, Creative bought the company and all its intellectual property.
They then proceeded to sit on A3D, safe in their profits.
They still are sitting on the technology to this day. Many high-end competative HL players will still use Win98 and an Aureal Vortex, or Vortex 2 for their unparalleled performance (and don't EVEN talk to be about 'A3D emulation', as it's crap). As with the tech under wraps, Creative did not even allow WinXP drivers to be written for the card, though the original coders wanted to.
There are other reasons for this besides sound quality. Highly-competitive CS players have run tests of the HL engine with multiple cheats on to give developer-like debugging info through logfiles and/or the console. Every bit of evidence points to A3D Sound-supporting cards playing audio at around twice the range an EAX card will. Translation: while your own ears may or may not be good enough to actually hear such low volumes of distant events, your speakers on an A3D card *will* output the footstep noises of an approaching enemy twice as soon as an EAX card will. That's a serious competitive advantage during (example) rounds of CS where many players are dead and most others are seriously wounded, sneaking around.
[edit]<a href='http://www.summerblue.net/games/cs_report/4_7_audibility.html' target='_blank'>link</a> to the tests where I read this.