<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Do you have something to back that up? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If there were an autojump, he could. Since there isn't, take mods where there is for example. Science & Industry 0.97b had autojump and it was possible to hop thru vents at same speed as normal bhop, 170%+.
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
edited July 2004
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jul 22 2004, 05:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 22 2004, 05:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->EDIT: Narfwak, actually these ideas are in the works<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, they are not. They have not been discussed at any point in #ns-staff, #nspt or the playtester forums. This does not rule out a future discussion among the playtesters, developers, and exterminators; however, stating that such features are "in the works" is inaccurate and misleading.
Edit: I want to make it absolutely clear that I am not criticizing the suggestions presented by either Forlorn or the suggestions made by Tyr in his interview. I only wanted to give everyone a reality check to keep any rumors from getting out of control.
On a side note, this should probably go in I&S, anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin-skifly+Jul 22 2004, 10:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (skifly @ Jul 22 2004, 10:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Something I just thought of about the autojump: If it is perfectly timed, then the marines will be able to bhop again. I've seen people in CS with autojump hooks and they were able to override CS's jump slowdown. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is not true. When _special worked (an alias which was performed every frame) in 2.0, marines could not bunnyhop. I guess the code to stop it is in the pm_ code, and it slows the marine down on the 1st frame he hits the floor. It may not have worked properly in cs if they had coded it in such a way that the jump was processed before the slowing-down on that frame.
Still, auto jump is not good because it means you only have to hold a button down, and allows you to move very fast up ramps.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mercior+Jul 23 2004, 01:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mercior @ Jul 23 2004, 01:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Still, auto jump is not good because it means you only have to hold a button down, and allows you to move very fast up ramps. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why is that bad? :C Kharaa depend on movement, and making them slightly faster up ramps can only be good for the gameplay?
<!--QuoteBegin-Narwfak+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Narwfak)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What voog said. There has been little to no discussion of this - in fact, I hadn't even heard of it until today. I highly doubt either feature will make it into NS. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why not? The only thing it will change is leveling the playingfield. People who use script wont be able to get the upperhand over those who dont anymore. <b>Why is that bad?</b> Since bunnyjumping is a feature of NS, a very well needed one, why is giving everyone the same chance bad - it will just be more noobfriendly.
Holding a button is bad because it takes away from the skill. Quake-style movement requires you still press the button once every jump - and this becomes trickier when you want to jump onto a higer object, such as a railing, which keeps some timing skill in bunnyhopping but isnt nearly as hard as the timing that would currently be required to hop perfectly without a script (every jump would need to be accurate to 1/100th of a second).
You can still hop up ramps with the quake model by hammering your jump button, but with the autojump you literally glide up them at full speed. Hopping up ramps isnt great anyway, because theres often an invisible lip at the top of the ramp that will stop you dead. Of course, in quake when you jump up a ramp you get a height boost based on your speed, so it is possible to jump up and over the lip of the ramp. But I doubt voogru is ready for that yet <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Auto jump seems lame, as for up hill bhoping its good but not always... sometimes at the end of the steep, the alien will jump strait up in the air and lose all the speed.
I wish they could fix that for ppl that can already bhop up hill, how many of you can bhop up hill without pressing forwards?
Just curious...
Half of ppl say they bhop, are'nt doing it properly, maybe auto-jump could help those players to learn the movement right...I would keep it off.
As for auto-pistol, well, the rof is pretty limited right now but I still like to think that the best quickshooters deserves some kind of advantage because of skill(or mouse wheel, script)
I think client side lastinv should be standard before auto-anything, as for a tool to make scripts that come with ns...not that scripting is hard, but no one could complain after <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
NolSinklerOn the ClorfJoin Date: 2004-02-15Member: 26560Members, Constellation
Autojump actually sounds good to me.
It: Evens the playingfield between noobs and more experienced players Allows everybody to get to the insane speeds of 470 units/second as skulk Would make skulks more powerful, along with any other alien What about jetpacks though?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Do you have something to back that up? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If there were an autojump, he could. Since there isn't, take mods where there is for example. Science & Industry 0.97b had autojump and it was possible to hop thru vents at same speed as normal bhop, 170%+. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not to mention how the _special command in 2.01 could be used as a skulk to bhop through vnets :/
Wait, your saying that skulks need to be faster? What kind of **** are you smoking, because you need to share skulks are already uber fast, bhopping would make it: Marine: well its one skulk versus 23 marines... gg guys that skulk wont die
I don't see him saying skulks need to be faster, but I'm assuming you mean Forlorn, since you didn't actually quote anybody and he was the last to post.
As for bunnyhopping, I honestly don't even know/think it's a "feature" for aliens. I always assumed it just couldn't be stopped on the alien side without impeding regular alien movement.
I strongly disagree with the auto-jump and auto-pistol. Though I will agree that skulks need to be able to move fast for defense, otherwise they will get owned by marines too easily. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No flamage please
If NS is given an auto-jump and all the not-so-skilled players that used to gorge, are now made harder to hit because of a speed increase, then please explain WHAT will happen to the team work ?
The bhop is hard to learn / perfect without scripting for a _reason_, and that reason is to single out immdiately to the entire alien team, who exactly should be on the attack, and who exactly should be building / saving for hive / general gorging etc.
If a one-day-nooby joins a server when auto-jump is enabled, he's not going to gorge like newbies generally do. He's going to rape marines with the "easy to use bhop" and then fade something like 4 minutes into the game. Then he's going to die uber fast because he's a one-day-nooby and that's a waste of 50 res. That kind of loss 4 minutes into the game is a critical disadvantage.
You can't tell me it won't happen; People play games for the glory of being good at them. Nooby's and intermediate players will instantaniously realise that marines are much easier to kill now, and they'll kill **** for the glory of being on top of the server. It will happen, and if you don't beleive me then you've obviously never met a hacker. Alot of people hack becuase they can't get the skills to beat everyone + anyone, yet their desire to win is so intense they'll try anything. A nooby or intermediate player gets that feeling every time he see's an elite fade run into the midst of 5 shotgun marines and win.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Sexy_Tool+Jul 22 2004, 11:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sexy_Tool @ Jul 22 2004, 11:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think you are all forgetting something here;
If NS is given an auto-jump and all the not-so-skilled players that used to gorge, are now made harder to hit because of a speed increase, then please explain WHAT will happen to the team work ?
The bhop is hard to learn / perfect without scripting for a _reason_, and that reason is to single out immdiately to the entire alien team, who exactly should be on the attack, and who exactly should be building / saving for hive / general gorging etc.
If a one-day-nooby joins a server when auto-jump is enabled, he's not going to gorge like newbies generally do. He's going to rape marines with the "easy to use bhop" and then fade something like 4 minutes into the game. Then he's going to die uber fast because he's a one-day-nooby and that's a waste of 50 res. That kind of loss 4 minutes into the game is a critical disadvantage.
You can't tell me it won't happen; People play games for the glory of being good at them. Nooby's and intermediate players will instantaniously realise that marines are much easier to kill now, and they'll kill **** for the glory of being on top of the server. It will happen, and if you don't beleive me then you've obviously never met a hacker. Alot of people hack becuase they can't get the skills to beat everyone + anyone, yet their desire to win is so intense they'll try anything. A nooby or intermediate player gets that feeling every time he see's an elite fade run into the midst of 5 shotgun marines and win. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Get off the crack. Bunnyhop, let alone a stupid auto-jump feature (which, on its own, won't give you a speed increase btw), does not turn you into a killing machine. Nor has bunnyhop (not auto-jump) at any time singled out who fights and who builds.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sexy_Tool+Jul 22 2004, 11:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sexy_Tool @ Jul 22 2004, 11:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think you are all forgetting something here;
If NS is given an auto-jump and all the not-so-skilled players that used to gorge, are now made harder to hit because of a speed increase, then please explain WHAT will happen to the team work ?
The bhop is hard to learn / perfect without scripting for a _reason_, and that reason is to single out immdiately to the entire alien team, who exactly should be on the attack, and who exactly should be building / saving for hive / general gorging etc.
If a one-day-nooby joins a server when auto-jump is enabled, he's not going to gorge like newbies generally do. He's going to rape marines with the "easy to use bhop" and then fade something like 4 minutes into the game. Then he's going to die uber fast because he's a one-day-nooby and that's a waste of 50 res. That kind of loss 4 minutes into the game is a critical disadvantage.
You can't tell me it won't happen; People play games for the glory of being good at them. Nooby's and intermediate players will instantaniously realise that marines are much easier to kill now, and they'll kill **** for the glory of being on top of the server. It will happen, and if you don't beleive me then you've obviously never met a hacker. Alot of people hack becuase they can't get the skills to beat everyone + anyone, yet their desire to win is so intense they'll try anything. A nooby or intermediate player gets that feeling every time he see's an elite fade run into the midst of 5 shotgun marines and win. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You are so wrong. It will take an average player a minimum of a few weeks to learn mouse movements necessary to obtain 500+ units of speed while bunny hopping. Until then, you'll just see people doing a lot of strafe jumping. Also, voogru, since it's kind of obvious that you want bunnyhopping to be removed completely (against Flayra's wishes I might add), how can a skulk use a high speed for defense considering cl_sidespeed is locked at 400? The skulk would have to quickly pulse between moving and strafing ultimately resulting in a sloppy escape maneuver that any half-skilled marine would stop within a second. Also, I'm surprised that people think that having a whole team of bunnyhoppers will make the game extremely unbalanced. Having played in hundreds of scrims, pugs, and other forms of organized 6v6 gameplay, I can easily say that bunnyhopping is a worthful tool and does NOT overpower the aliens but rather increases their EFFECTIVENESS.
As stated above, an autojump or quake-style jump won't allow anyone to be able to bunnyhop without a large amount of practice.
It won't make "bad" players "good". Script yourself an insane amount of jumps, load a map, turn on cheats, type +duck in the console (just to make it even easier), and use cl_showspeed and see how long it takes you before you can even get a decent forward locomotion going.
Bunnyhopping being instantly achievable by anyone who can use a script(or autojump) is a common misconception among people who haven't bothered to find out what bunnyhopping consists of. Without the proper air movements, you accomplish nothing but making your movements more predictable. Jump timing is a limiting factor but it's not the primary skill involved. I don't know how many times that myth has to be dispelled before it sinks in.
Personally, I know how to bunnyhop and I'd still rather that it be removed from the game, in favor of a skulk speed increase and a more versatile method of maneuvering(like walljumping, and better jump controls so skulks can dodge sort of like the UT double-tap). Barring that, I agree that quake-style jump queueing is the best simple solution to the whole bunnyhopping debate. With the scripting advantage eliminated bunnyhopping will simply be a skill and maybe people can stop whining about it.
For auto-jump see bind mwheelup "+jump" or +3jump alias. Weehoo! NS already got that feature?!?! Hot..
Seriously Forlorn, as you state it, we already got auto-jumps with scripting. So why are you against this feature when you can spend 1 second to script something like it?
The automatic pistol is just ridiculous, why make these big game changes? Shouldn't there be ANY skill involved instead of doing changes that makes EVERYTHING automatic so you only have to press fewer buttons but still depend on your mouse movements? Sounds really weird to me.
And don't tell me this has nothing with scripting to do since you always add it in your posts. Rather block everything that can be automated than have the possibility to make it if you got the experience for it, that's what I have to say.
Seriously Forlorn, as you state it, we already got auto-jumps with scripting. So why are you against this feature when you can spend 1 second to script something like it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Er...What? With a +3jump you still need to hit a key for every jump. With mosusewheel you still need to scroll. Both still require user intervention that is still prone to error. They just give a larger error buffer than the standard +jump.
However, an autojump command removes any need for user interaction for the jumping part of bhop. Meaning you can bhop everywhere and anywhere, up and down slopes, through vents, no problem at all. With the jumpscript or mousewheel, it's a whole lot harder to get anywhere NEAR that.
<b>MOUSEWHEEL AND +3JUMPS ARE <u>NOTHING</u> LIKE AN AUTOJUMP</b>
(except that both removes the need of good timing skillz)
If any sort of autojump becomes the official jump bind, we are really going to need a bunnyhop guide in the manual, just to explain why we have that feature. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Align+Jul 23 2004, 09:23 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Jul 23 2004, 09:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (except that both removes the need of good timing skillz) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> As I said, they give more a buffer for error, so you don't need to be so precise with your timing that you can complete Super Mario Brothers in sub-10 minutes.
Seeing that it was made clear that automatic jump and pistol were nothing but a rumor, I assume this thread has filled its role. For all suggestions on connected subjects, there's a nice and shiny forum not far below this one for those purposes.
Comments
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you have something to back that up?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you have something to back that up? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If there were an autojump, he could. Since there isn't, take mods where there is for example. Science & Industry 0.97b had autojump and it was possible to hop thru vents at same speed as normal bhop, 170%+.
No, they are not. They have not been discussed at any point in #ns-staff, #nspt or the playtester forums. This does not rule out a future discussion among the playtesters, developers, and exterminators; however, stating that such features are "in the works" is inaccurate and misleading.
Edit: I want to make it absolutely clear that I am not criticizing the suggestions presented by either Forlorn or the suggestions made by Tyr in his interview. I only wanted to give everyone a reality check to keep any rumors from getting out of control.
On a side note, this should probably go in I&S, anyway.
This is not true. When _special worked (an alias which was performed every frame) in 2.0, marines could not bunnyhop. I guess the code to stop it is in the pm_ code, and it slows the marine down on the 1st frame he hits the floor. It may not have worked properly in cs if they had coded it in such a way that the jump was processed before the slowing-down on that frame.
Still, auto jump is not good because it means you only have to hold a button down, and allows you to move very fast up ramps.
Why is that bad? :C
Kharaa depend on movement, and making them slightly faster up ramps can only be good for the gameplay?
<!--QuoteBegin-Narwfak+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Narwfak)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
What voog said. There has been little to no discussion of this - in fact, I hadn't even heard of it until today. I highly doubt either feature will make it into NS.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why not?
The only thing it will change is leveling the playingfield. People who use script wont be able to get the upperhand over those who dont anymore. <b>Why is that bad?</b>
Since bunnyjumping is a feature of NS, a very well needed one, why is giving everyone the same chance bad - it will just be more noobfriendly.
You can still hop up ramps with the quake model by hammering your jump button, but with the autojump you literally glide up them at full speed. Hopping up ramps isnt great anyway, because theres often an invisible lip at the top of the ramp that will stop you dead. Of course, in quake when you jump up a ramp you get a height boost based on your speed, so it is possible to jump up and over the lip of the ramp. But I doubt voogru is ready for that yet <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
sometimes at the end of the steep, the alien will jump strait up in the air and lose all the speed.
I wish they could fix that for ppl that can already bhop up hill, how many of you can bhop up hill without pressing forwards?
Just curious...
Half of ppl say they bhop, are'nt doing it properly, maybe auto-jump could help those players to learn the movement right...I would keep it off.
As for auto-pistol, well, the rof is pretty limited right now but I still like to think that the best quickshooters deserves some kind of advantage because of skill(or mouse wheel, script)
I think client side lastinv should be standard before auto-anything, as for a tool to make scripts that come with ns...not that scripting is hard, but no one could complain after <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It:
Evens the playingfield between noobs and more experienced players
Allows everybody to get to the insane speeds of 470 units/second as skulk
Would make skulks more powerful, along with any other alien
What about jetpacks though?
It (like lastinv client-side) makes the need for scripting pretty much not needed [as said above].
It can help lessen the humongous craters in skill level: specifically intermediate - expert. (See next point for clarification)
It, just like scripting, will not make a "bad" player into a "good" player. It will only help those that want to get better do so.
It's about the only thing that Forlon has posted that really made any sense and that scares me.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you have something to back that up? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If there were an autojump, he could. Since there isn't, take mods where there is for example. Science & Industry 0.97b had autojump and it was possible to hop thru vents at same speed as normal bhop, 170%+. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to mention how the _special command in 2.01 could be used as a skulk to bhop through vnets :/
What kind of **** are you smoking, because you need to share
skulks are already uber fast, bhopping would make it:
Marine: well its one skulk versus 23 marines... gg guys that skulk wont die
I don't see him saying skulks need to be faster, but I'm assuming you mean Forlorn, since you didn't actually quote anybody and he was the last to post.
As for bunnyhopping, I honestly don't even know/think it's a "feature" for aliens. I always assumed it just couldn't be stopped on the alien side without impeding regular alien movement.
I strongly disagree with the auto-jump and auto-pistol. Though I will agree that skulks need to be able to move fast for defense, otherwise they will get owned by marines too easily. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No flamage please
If NS is given an auto-jump and all the not-so-skilled players that used to gorge, are now made harder to hit because of a speed increase, then please explain WHAT will happen to the team work ?
The bhop is hard to learn / perfect without scripting for a _reason_, and that reason is to single out immdiately to the entire alien team, who exactly should be on the attack, and who exactly should be building / saving for hive / general gorging etc.
If a one-day-nooby joins a server when auto-jump is enabled, he's not going to gorge like newbies generally do. He's going to rape marines with the "easy to use bhop" and then fade something like 4 minutes into the game. Then he's going to die uber fast because he's a one-day-nooby and that's a waste of 50 res. That kind of loss 4 minutes into the game is a critical disadvantage.
You can't tell me it won't happen; People play games for the glory of being good at them. Nooby's and intermediate players will instantaniously realise that marines are much easier to kill now, and they'll kill **** for the glory of being on top of the server. It will happen, and if you don't beleive me then you've obviously never met a hacker. Alot of people hack becuase they can't get the skills to beat everyone + anyone, yet their desire to win is so intense they'll try anything. A nooby or intermediate player gets that feeling every time he see's an elite fade run into the midst of 5 shotgun marines and win.
If NS is given an auto-jump and all the not-so-skilled players that used to gorge, are now made harder to hit because of a speed increase, then please explain WHAT will happen to the team work ?
The bhop is hard to learn / perfect without scripting for a _reason_, and that reason is to single out immdiately to the entire alien team, who exactly should be on the attack, and who exactly should be building / saving for hive / general gorging etc.
If a one-day-nooby joins a server when auto-jump is enabled, he's not going to gorge like newbies generally do. He's going to rape marines with the "easy to use bhop" and then fade something like 4 minutes into the game. Then he's going to die uber fast because he's a one-day-nooby and that's a waste of 50 res. That kind of loss 4 minutes into the game is a critical disadvantage.
You can't tell me it won't happen; People play games for the glory of being good at them. Nooby's and intermediate players will instantaniously realise that marines are much easier to kill now, and they'll kill **** for the glory of being on top of the server. It will happen, and if you don't beleive me then you've obviously never met a hacker. Alot of people hack becuase they can't get the skills to beat everyone + anyone, yet their desire to win is so intense they'll try anything. A nooby or intermediate player gets that feeling every time he see's an elite fade run into the midst of 5 shotgun marines and win. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Get off the crack. Bunnyhop, let alone a stupid auto-jump feature (which, on its own, won't give you a speed increase btw), does not turn you into a killing machine. Nor has bunnyhop (not auto-jump) at any time singled out who fights and who builds.
If NS is given an auto-jump and all the not-so-skilled players that used to gorge, are now made harder to hit because of a speed increase, then please explain WHAT will happen to the team work ?
The bhop is hard to learn / perfect without scripting for a _reason_, and that reason is to single out immdiately to the entire alien team, who exactly should be on the attack, and who exactly should be building / saving for hive / general gorging etc.
If a one-day-nooby joins a server when auto-jump is enabled, he's not going to gorge like newbies generally do. He's going to rape marines with the "easy to use bhop" and then fade something like 4 minutes into the game. Then he's going to die uber fast because he's a one-day-nooby and that's a waste of 50 res. That kind of loss 4 minutes into the game is a critical disadvantage.
You can't tell me it won't happen; People play games for the glory of being good at them. Nooby's and intermediate players will instantaniously realise that marines are much easier to kill now, and they'll kill **** for the glory of being on top of the server. It will happen, and if you don't beleive me then you've obviously never met a hacker. Alot of people hack becuase they can't get the skills to beat everyone + anyone, yet their desire to win is so intense they'll try anything. A nooby or intermediate player gets that feeling every time he see's an elite fade run into the midst of 5 shotgun marines and win. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are so wrong. It will take an average player a minimum of a few weeks to learn mouse movements necessary to obtain 500+ units of speed while bunny hopping. Until then, you'll just see people doing a lot of strafe jumping. Also, voogru, since it's kind of obvious that you want bunnyhopping to be removed completely (against Flayra's wishes I might add), how can a skulk use a high speed for defense considering cl_sidespeed is locked at 400? The skulk would have to quickly pulse between moving and strafing ultimately resulting in a sloppy escape maneuver that any half-skilled marine would stop within a second. Also, I'm surprised that people think that having a whole team of bunnyhoppers will make the game extremely unbalanced. Having played in hundreds of scrims, pugs, and other forms of organized 6v6 gameplay, I can easily say that bunnyhopping is a worthful tool and does NOT overpower the aliens but rather increases their EFFECTIVENESS.
It won't make "bad" players "good". Script yourself an insane amount of jumps, load a map, turn on cheats, type +duck in the console (just to make it even easier), and use cl_showspeed and see how long it takes you before you can even get a decent forward locomotion going.
Personally, I know how to bunnyhop and I'd still rather that it be removed from the game, in favor of a skulk speed increase and a more versatile method of maneuvering(like walljumping, and better jump controls so skulks can dodge sort of like the UT double-tap). Barring that, I agree that quake-style jump queueing is the best simple solution to the whole bunnyhopping debate. With the scripting advantage eliminated bunnyhopping will simply be a skill and maybe people can stop whining about it.
Weehoo! NS already got that feature?!?! Hot..
Seriously Forlorn, as you state it, we already got auto-jumps with scripting. So why are you against this feature when you can spend 1 second to script something like it?
The automatic pistol is just ridiculous, why make these big game changes? Shouldn't there be ANY skill involved instead of doing changes that makes EVERYTHING automatic so you only have to press fewer buttons but still depend on your mouse movements?
Sounds really weird to me.
And don't tell me this has nothing with scripting to do since you always add it in your posts. Rather block everything that can be automated than have the possibility to make it if you got the experience for it, that's what I have to say.
Weehoo! NS already got that feature?!?! Hot..
Seriously Forlorn, as you state it, we already got auto-jumps with scripting. So why are you against this feature when you can spend 1 second to script something like it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Er...What? With a +3jump you still need to hit a key for every jump. With mosusewheel you still need to scroll. Both still require user intervention that is still prone to error. They just give a larger error buffer than the standard +jump.
However, an autojump command removes any need for user interaction for the jumping part of bhop. Meaning you can bhop everywhere and anywhere, up and down slopes, through vents, no problem at all. With the jumpscript or mousewheel, it's a whole lot harder to get anywhere NEAR that.
<b>MOUSEWHEEL AND +3JUMPS ARE <u>NOTHING</u> LIKE AN AUTOJUMP</b>
If any sort of autojump becomes the official jump bind, we are really going to need a bunnyhop guide in the manual, just to explain why we have that feature. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As I said, they give more a buffer for error, so you don't need to be so precise with your timing that you can complete Super Mario Brothers in sub-10 minutes.
<span style='color:red'>***Locked.***</span>