Something About Co_ Needs To Be Changed (imo :p)
wascally_wabbit
Join Date: 2003-09-09 Member: 20701Members
Join Date: 2003-09-09 Member: 20701Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Rawr, another spawn-killing thread</div>I just finished playing a game of combat, 8 vs 8, aliens were winning, and it was the usual spawncamp to win situation, wherein there are 2 fades and a skulk in MS, and any marine that spawns gets killed pretty much instantly.
Now, this can't be helped obviously, since it's not like the aliens are going to ignore the marines that just spawned there and only worry about knocking down the CC.
And I was thinking about the combat preview video, that was released a long time ago (though I can't find the news post)... The game there was pretty awesome. The endgame I mean. Aliens were HAMMERING the CC, and MS was pretty much complete chaos. Getting that CC down was a big accomplishment (accompanied with cries of "CC IN RED, RUSH IT!!!". The enemy's hive/CC would ground down in wave after wave of attacks. Games like that were a lot of fun, because the whole team had to be working together to knock the thing out, and it was a challenge to get that last bar down. (Or in the case of the hive, to get that SG clip into it).
The cause of games like that was the old spawning system, wherein half the team would suddenly appear in their spawn, thus making it hard to knock out their CC/hive. The old spawn system also had the benefit of keeping the players in the game longer (at least once the it-takes-longer-to-spawn-the-higher-level-you-are thing was removed). Tended to lead to games that were more fun.
But there is one major problem with that spawn system, which is that marines (never seen it happen with aliens) will all spawn with HA+HMG, meaning anything in spawn at that time is pretty screwed. Which led to long stalemate games wherein everyone was level 10, and the game often lasted longer than an hour (I think the longest I played was 1 and 1/2 hours).
The new spawn system fixes the stalemates and long games, but at a rather high price:
It takes forever to spawn in larger games, once half your team is dead you usually lose, you get spawn-killed, it's easier to destroy the CC/hive meaning that feeling of accomplishment is gone, and the final mad rush with one team fighting madly to knock out the enemy CC/hive, and the other team trying desperately to defend it, are gone. Losing these attributes of combat means that the game is a lot less fun now.
So throw down any of your opinions on what I said, or on combat, or whatever, in this thread. Maybe something interesting/good will come out of it :p
And if anyone can think of a method to stop games that last forever, without removing the epic feel of the game, then put it down here, or suggest it in the I&S forum... If you feel like it of course :p
-wabbit out
NOTE: These are all my opinions, and if you think combat is funner now than it was before, feel free to disagree with me, I'm not trying to speak for anyone else :p
PS: I'm about to make a fool out of myself, aren't I? :D
Now, this can't be helped obviously, since it's not like the aliens are going to ignore the marines that just spawned there and only worry about knocking down the CC.
And I was thinking about the combat preview video, that was released a long time ago (though I can't find the news post)... The game there was pretty awesome. The endgame I mean. Aliens were HAMMERING the CC, and MS was pretty much complete chaos. Getting that CC down was a big accomplishment (accompanied with cries of "CC IN RED, RUSH IT!!!". The enemy's hive/CC would ground down in wave after wave of attacks. Games like that were a lot of fun, because the whole team had to be working together to knock the thing out, and it was a challenge to get that last bar down. (Or in the case of the hive, to get that SG clip into it).
The cause of games like that was the old spawning system, wherein half the team would suddenly appear in their spawn, thus making it hard to knock out their CC/hive. The old spawn system also had the benefit of keeping the players in the game longer (at least once the it-takes-longer-to-spawn-the-higher-level-you-are thing was removed). Tended to lead to games that were more fun.
But there is one major problem with that spawn system, which is that marines (never seen it happen with aliens) will all spawn with HA+HMG, meaning anything in spawn at that time is pretty screwed. Which led to long stalemate games wherein everyone was level 10, and the game often lasted longer than an hour (I think the longest I played was 1 and 1/2 hours).
The new spawn system fixes the stalemates and long games, but at a rather high price:
It takes forever to spawn in larger games, once half your team is dead you usually lose, you get spawn-killed, it's easier to destroy the CC/hive meaning that feeling of accomplishment is gone, and the final mad rush with one team fighting madly to knock out the enemy CC/hive, and the other team trying desperately to defend it, are gone. Losing these attributes of combat means that the game is a lot less fun now.
So throw down any of your opinions on what I said, or on combat, or whatever, in this thread. Maybe something interesting/good will come out of it :p
And if anyone can think of a method to stop games that last forever, without removing the epic feel of the game, then put it down here, or suggest it in the I&S forum... If you feel like it of course :p
-wabbit out
NOTE: These are all my opinions, and if you think combat is funner now than it was before, feel free to disagree with me, I'm not trying to speak for anyone else :p
PS: I'm about to make a fool out of myself, aren't I? :D
Comments
imho: a cvar should be implemented to change between wave and single respawn systems
or a new system should be put in place
If you don't want to read much, skip to the end.
Get Day of Defeat's spawn system. I've been playing that a lot recently, and I realized that dod has a few similarities to co. The one I'm bringing up is this: A pell mell crazy rush to finish the game.
Picture this: a dod map where there is one flag left. The attacking team wants to cap that flag and win the game before the defenders can set up defense around it and dig in. The defenders have two objectives - a rock solid defense to keep there flag, and a good attack to get some other flags and more security.
Now in combat, picture a last stand by the marine team - trying to kill the aliens and keep the cc welded at the same time. Similar objectives - tring to 1) save their hides while 2) breaking out.
In dod, it works very well. You have your turnarounds, but you also have your victories. A coorinated rush. A few well placed grenades. But mainly killing enough people around the flag (mainly machine gunners) so that you can run and grab it.
The dod teams spawn in formidable waves - but it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because it takes them time to run to the flag. Because they spawn a good distance away from it.
----------------
In ns:
One at a time spawning sucks - you get picked off 1 at a time with no hope of recovery. And its painfully slow in large games.
Wave spawning sucks because the spawning team is very hard to beat - with a good number of gorges or welders, it'll be a long stalemate.
BUT... if we did dod style wave spawning. Where the players spawn away from what they defend. Now you can have the strength of waves, giving the defenders a chance, yet giving the offense time to kill the cc/hive (think about it - 9 seconds is a LONG time).
Yuck++
If I had to change combat, I would do so by making it more like regular NS, yet removing the building parts.
So you have:
o Aliens respawn as skulk always
o You can only evolve once from skulk
o Dying with a larger lifeform gives you back their upgrades
oo Going gorge costs 1 point
oo Going lerk costs 2 points
oo Going fade costs 3 points
oo Going onos costs 4 points
o Evolution times are increased to 1/2 of what they are in regular NS
oo Gorge = 8 seconds
oo Lerk = 10 seconds
oo Fade = 12 seconds
oo Onos = 20 seconds
o Teams spawn in 1/3 of the enemies teamsize at a whack
o One wave spawn occurs every 10 seconds
o Mirror damage = on (to discourage GL spam)
why
Mirror damage is kinda lame because if you have a SG or HMG and you pub combat a lot, you know all the noobs like to run infront of you for no freaking reason and block all your bullets so you die like he does. I don't like the GL so mirror damage only on that -_-
Mirror damage is kinda lame because if you have a SG or HMG and you pub combat a lot, you know all the noobs like to run infront of you for no freaking reason and block all your bullets so you die like he does. I don't like the GL so mirror damage only on that -_- <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's so hypocritical, calling someone a noob for running in front of your (hitscan) bullets?
Learn to control your fire is what I say.
problem with single spawn is spawn camping to win.
problem with wave spawn is it's WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too freaking easy to kill a cc or hive since there is a tiny period which marines can't do anything at all.
I beleive pair spawning would be the best.
So yeah. I'ld rather have a long <i>buttox</i> stalemate. It gets your adrenaline pumping because your 24/7 fighting em off.