Alien Swarm
Fat_Man_Little_Coat
Join Date: 2003-12-02 Member: 23857Members
Join Date: 2003-12-02 Member: 23857Members
I've made a few posts about how Natural Selection should really start focusing on the next generation engines (Doom 3, HL2, UT2k4) and have gotten flamed for doing it by a few posters, and supported by a few as well.
Well, with the new news of the delay I can't help but reiterate this point, this time even more strongly because of games like <a href='http://www.blackcatgames.com/swarm/' target='_blank'>Alien Swarm</a>are creeping on the territory that NS has so strongly dominated. Playing top down, and watchin in the multiple windows available during Spectate mode, I couldn't help but wish that NS would start using a new engine, and most importantly, that it was just a matter of time before some other company does it, and effectively at that. We've already seen one strongly influenced game (Savage) that pretty much imitated NS in general gameplay, now when you see the graphics and abilities of Alien Swarm, you can't want to play NS on a newer, stronger engine.
*edit: added screenshot:
<a href='http://www.blackcatgames.com/swarm/viewshot.php?name=Autopsy' target='_blank'>http://www.blackcatgames.com/swarm/viewshot.php?name=Autopsy</a>
<a href='http://www.blackcatgames.com/swarm/viewshot.php?name=RCFlame' target='_blank'>http://www.blackcatgames.com/swarm/viewshot.php?name=RCFlame</a>
Well, with the new news of the delay I can't help but reiterate this point, this time even more strongly because of games like <a href='http://www.blackcatgames.com/swarm/' target='_blank'>Alien Swarm</a>are creeping on the territory that NS has so strongly dominated. Playing top down, and watchin in the multiple windows available during Spectate mode, I couldn't help but wish that NS would start using a new engine, and most importantly, that it was just a matter of time before some other company does it, and effectively at that. We've already seen one strongly influenced game (Savage) that pretty much imitated NS in general gameplay, now when you see the graphics and abilities of Alien Swarm, you can't want to play NS on a newer, stronger engine.
*edit: added screenshot:
<a href='http://www.blackcatgames.com/swarm/viewshot.php?name=Autopsy' target='_blank'>http://www.blackcatgames.com/swarm/viewshot.php?name=Autopsy</a>
<a href='http://www.blackcatgames.com/swarm/viewshot.php?name=RCFlame' target='_blank'>http://www.blackcatgames.com/swarm/viewshot.php?name=RCFlame</a>
Comments
I'm guess NS will port to HL2 as NS2 or something like that. Maybe that's what UWE is working on...
I always wanted mechs in ns mixed with even bigger aliens...yeah I know it doesn't make sense, but mechs are cool and aliens are cool. lol
I always wanted mechs in ns mixed with even bigger aliens...yeah I know it doesn't make sense, but mechs are cool and aliens are cool. lol <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lay off the anime, you should be fine in a week or two <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I always wanted mechs in ns mixed with even bigger aliens...yeah I know it doesn't make sense, but mechs are cool and aliens are cool. lol <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i dunno if it should be NS, but a game with MASSIVE aliens and HUGE mechs fighting in the wilderness would be a cool game <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Alien swarms' aliens are damned ugly compared to the Kharaa and savage is just.... what more do i need to say? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That's my point though, there are no real comparable examples...yet.
To reiterate, the graphic styling of Alien Swarm is similar to NS, and playing it, you can't help but be reminded of NS's commander mode. Savage, good or bad, generally uses the same kind of mechanics that makes NS standout. The point of them being bad or good is moot, since the topic is that it is just a matter of time before someone makes a mod that utilizes both concepts and does it well. Whether that person is Flayra is the thing in question.
*edit: about the aliens in Alien Swarm: yea, they lack some creative style, some strongly remind me of Fades and such, but the rest of the game is very well done. And Spectating, with the multiple cams and viewpoints are great, but confusing at times.
um... isnt there just 1 mode with vehicles in it ?
um... isnt there just 1 mode with vehicles in it ? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Still vehicle based
I think Flayra did express some interest in porting NS to Source after we found out that Valve is doing the same thing with Counter-Strike, Half-Life 1, etc. But that all simply depends on how much effort is involved. I thought I remembered hearing at the time that it was supposed to be pretty easy to port a HL mod to Source, but I have no idea how true that is. If there is a lot of effort involved in porting the game, the devs won't bother. They've already said they're more interested in pursuing different projects than "upgrading" this one to another engine.
Now, I understand Flayra has espressed interest in using other engines, but take it in context of the situation. With Far Cry, Pain Killer, UT2k4, DOOM3 and HL2 almost all out, we have yet to have the latest non-beta version of NS.
Now, granted it's his creation, but I guarantee you that if he doesn't do it, someone else will. Already there's a battlefield 1942 mod out with Commander mode, and the next sequel in that game will have Commander built in into the game itself.
Clarification please
Are you saying that if its too hard that that's it for NS?
and if so, can you affirm it with a source?
If you're intrested, probally the first widely avliable FPS/RTS is probally a draw between <a href='http://www.alleg.net' target='_blank'>Allegence</a> which is still run and updated by a very dedicated community even though the engine is years old or TenSix which while a large and daring attempt at an MMO/RTS/FPS was also probally the first major syndicated MMO to be totally and completly shut down by it's developers for failing to achieve expectations. The second ever was Earth and Beyond.
Well, yes, I do mean looks prettier graphically. Duh. Graphics are pretty important these days, maybe its just me, but it seems that games these day seem to be heading in that direction. By all means, if you like pac man and pong, knock yourself out..
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Similarly, the only similarity that Savage and NS have is they are both FPS/RTS games<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, it's worth noting that FPS/RTS is a GENRE, just like any other.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So in your own words, all they do is, I don't know, share a genre?! Hmmm, that's a pretty big thing. I mean, maybe you may prefer to compare apples to oranges, but the standard out there is to compare apples to...oh I don't know, apples? Also, using Similarly twice in the same sentence is redundant, much like your arguments.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->it's not often used, but it's there. Saying NS should move to a diffrent engine because "others will use the same idea" would be like telling Square Enix to stop making RPGs because other people are also making them, and so on.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Weak comparison at best. For one, I'm not telling "Square Enix" to stop making RPGs, man that is really a bad comparison. What I'm saying is more like telling Square Enix to stop making RPGs for 8 bit NES when others are making it for the 64 bit systems.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you're intrested, probally the first widely avliable FPS/RTS is probally a draw between <a href='http://www.alleg.net' target='_blank'>Allegence</a> which is still run and updated by a very dedicated community even though the engine is years old or TenSix which while a large and daring attempt at an MMO/RTS/FPS was also probally the first major syndicated MMO to be totally and completly shut down by it's developers for failing to achieve expectations. The second ever was Earth and Beyond.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i>Edit: using three games that have become all but oblivious to support your argument does quite the opposite. </i>
Well, there you have it. I've never heard of that first game. And chances are people won't remember games like NS if it doesn't keep up. Granted, I'm sure allegence has a dedicated fanbase, which is nice, but who here is going to download it and play it? Probably no one to not many, since NS well, lets see, LOOKS BETTER AND PLAYS BETTER on the NEWER HALF LIFE engine.
Sheesh. Thanks for being your own worst enemy. Normally I'm not this harsh, but man, for a person with your post count, you should know better.
Sheesh. Thanks for being your own worst enemy. Normally I'm not this harsh, but man, for a person with your post count, you should know better. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is ridiculous. Are we to believe that your only reason for wanting NS on a new engine is popularity? Let me explain something to you; how popular a game is is NOT directly related to how new its engine is. Allegiance was released retail in March 31, 2000, about a year and a half after Half-Life. It is a much newer game. I should know, I own a copy. The Half-Life engine is almost six years old, and yet it's still the most popular online FPS in existence when you look at CS, DoD, TFC, NS...
And that's exactly why NS is best off staying right where it is. Steam is the largest collection of FPS players in one place you're going to find for a long time, and NS is about to be right on the Games list with the big boys. No other engine on the market is going to give it as much publicity as the HL engine. Not only that, but newer engines require much more demanding system specs, which means you alienate everyone in your old playerbase with an older computer, whereas almost everbody can play a Half-Life mod. Moving to another engine would only serve to make it more easily forgotten. Your argument holds no water whatsoever. There is nothing wrong with the Half-Life engine for this game right now; if it ain't broke, don't fix it. What you are suggesting would require a phenomonal amount of additional work, and the benefit just isn't big enough to justify it(in fact the pros are outweighed by the cons).
Go download All-Seeing Eye or whatever other program, and look at the mods for a game like UT2K4. Tell me if you find one that even approaches the popularity of NS. Where is this massive potential playerbase you speak of? Right now, Alien Swarm has 9 players online, <i>total</i>. NS has 1,268. If that doesn't prove it I don't know what does.
Just hold on, and enjoy the ride.
The devs aren't stupid. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://neoshockmod.net' target='_blank'>NeoShock</a>
for those of you who are lazy.
the mod takes place 2070-ish, in a quasi-post-apocolyptic world.
its a RTS/FPS hybrid utilizing the Source engine that is available from HL2 (HL2 mod). its going to offer longer, tactically complex games battled out on a very wide variety of maps ( tons of exotic locations, such as asteroids, military fortresses, nuked cities. etc.)
its going to have three very distinct races. firstly humans, who use technology and flexibility as assets, such as mechanized suits, large guns, and the like. taking squad aspects from games like rainbow 6, but don't worry. still incredibly intense fighting.
the second race are cybernetic entities, very technologically advanced, and adaptible. they look very very cool (<a href='http://neoshockmod.net/concept/seraphcolored1.jpg' target='_blank'>Link</a>) and if you want to be able to pick up a car and absorb it for ammunition, this is the race for you. lots of guns <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
and finally, the Aliens. the aliens will be played similar to dungeon keeper. "lair" building, alien evolution, trap-laying. it will all play a large part. the one interesting thing about this, the alien team will be controlled by only a few 'queens' in an RTS veiw. the Alien units will be AI dominated.
to re-itterate my point, unless NS pulls off some magic, it will be forgotten along with all of the other Half-Life mods that do not convert to Source. not that will be a bad thing considering the current state of NS.
*shakes fist at the mighty Flayra for the curse that is NS 3.04a beta* (even though he abandoned us long before then <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
NS2 will probably be launched on Steam too, thus making it even more popular.
Steam games > All
Edit: But yeah NeoShock may offer a fierce competition, though.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
??
Explain it to me !!!
You cant even see NS if you dont have it downloaded and installed.
I know their working on it to get it under "my Games" but for now its not under this section.
Not all gameplay features are good either. Even though games sound cool with their creative features, they may just end up to be annoying.
Good games doesn't make good sales, though. Hype and sports games does.
I'm very happy with the HL engine: I'm able to play Steam games on most computers I encounter.
Oh and: I smell a lo*k. This has been discussed a gazillion times before.
Edit: Censored a word to keep the admins from getting ideas. Thanks NeonSpyder <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I rather have the exact same graphics with zero bugs, no lag, better ping ajustment, and all a round improvement,
than seeing eye candy graphics, anytime, anywhere.