Half-life 2 Preloads 8/17

panda_de_malheureux · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NegroN on hl2falloutforums)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> go gabe, it's yo brithday
we gon preload like it's yo birthday
we gonna play counterstrike like its yo birthday
cuz u know we dont give a ******* its not yo birthday</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

I'm happy now <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

UKchaos · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>he reason you get the CDs is so that way when steam is shut down 10 years from now and you go "gosh i wanna play half-life 2" you can.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Or you backup the files and play with offline mode.

Crono5 · August 2004

Preload for CS:S starts tomorrow w00t

Invader_Scoot · August 2004

Yeah I've got CZ too and the CS:S beta play will be fun, but what I'm really looking forward to is NS on source. Woooo...

ThE_HeRo · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invader Scoot @ Aug 15 2004, 08:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Yeah I've got CZ too and the CS:S beta play will be fun, but what I'm really looking forward to is NS on source. Woooo...  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Don't get your hopes up.

Xyth · August 2004

Personally I'd rather see NS2 or the next version or whatever on the doom 3 engine, just because it has better lighting effects(from what we know now). And it is made to deal with enclosed corridors and stuff, which is what NS is pretty much based around.

Im excited, things are looking up for HL2, and I'm gunna get a free copy <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /> (Hugs HL2 certificate).

Align · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invader Scoot @ Aug 11 2004, 06:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> This is a little bit off topic but I heard that HL2 will be <b>six</b> CD's, or you can get a special DVD install version that is only <b>two</b> CD's. Sounds like a big game...  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
4 CDs, 1 DVD.

brute_force · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xyth @ Aug 16 2004, 02:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Personally I'd rather see NS2 or the next version or whatever on the doom 3 engine, just because it has better lighting effects(from what we know now). And it is made to deal with enclosed corridors and stuff, which is what NS is pretty much based around.

Im excited, things are looking up for HL2, and I'm gunna get a free copy <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /> (Hugs HL2 certificate).  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Actually, I'd much rather NS2 to be on the Source engine rather than the D3 engine. D3 only uses dynamic lights while HL2 uses precompiled lights (similar to HL1). Dynamic lights would totally kill your fps if you use more than 3 or 4 in the same area. Right now, NS relies heavily on alot of different lights to create atmosphere and mood. Also, I think the NS mappers would find it easier to map for HL2 (most people use Hammer) than D3 (which uses Radiant (hi caboose)).

Anyhow, I haven't got CZ so unfortunately I can't play the CS:S beta. I did buy an ATi card though, but I never got any HL2 thingymabob. Oh well, I'm just gonna go preorder HL2 now <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Quaunaut · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (brute_force @ Aug 16 2004, 05:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xyth @ Aug 16 2004, 02:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Personally I'd rather see NS2 or the next version or whatever on the doom 3 engine, just because it has better lighting effects(from what we know now). And it is made to deal with enclosed corridors and stuff, which is what NS is pretty much based around.

Im excited, things are looking up for HL2, and I'm gunna get a free copy <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /> (Hugs HL2 certificate). </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Actually, I'd much rather NS2 to be on the Source engine rather than the D3 engine. D3 only uses dynamic lights while HL2 uses precompiled lights (similar to HL1). Dynamic lights would totally kill your fps if you use more than 3 or 4 in the same area. Right now, NS relies heavily on alot of different lights to create atmosphere and mood. Also, I think the NS mappers would find it easier to map for HL2 (most people use Hammer) than D3 (which uses Radiant (hi caboose)).

Anyhow, I haven't got CZ so unfortunately I can't play the CS:S beta. I did buy an ATi card though, but I never got any HL2 thingymabob. Oh well, I'm just gonna go preorder HL2 now <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Actually, quite a few scenes in D3 have 10+ lights. I'd love to give you a screenshot, but I'm still asleep atm.

Though, I'd rather have it on Source purely for ease of Server code- DOOM 3 CAN handle 32 players, but the code is only optimized to 16. Now HL2, the code there is optimized all the way to 128- so 16 would never be a problem, and would allow NS to totally rob resources that way <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

Soylent_green · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Actually, quite a few scenes in D3 have 10+ lights. I'd love to give you a screenshot, but I'm still asleep atm.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Doubt it, there are plenty of "glowing" things and such that aren't actual light sources and don't cast any light, there's quite alot of tiny light sources that don't cast shadows and aren't really interesting. I can't say that I ever saw more than 2 or 3 shadows from different light sources at once while playing doom, and I could definetly feel the framerate take a pretty noticable slump just turning on the flashlight. Part of the problem is how many polygons there are to cast a shadow, its not really lights by themselves or polygons by themselves that hurt performance.

edit: With precompiled lighting each additional player costs as much for performance. With each player using a flashlight(nescesary when there are so few light sources) cost is much worse than linear with the number of players in view/casting a shadow into your view. I believe dynamic lights are very usefull, don't get me wrong, I just think there is going to have to be mechanisms limiting their use for years to come( such as using light maps for the main lighting, not making maps so dark that everyone allways has their flashlight on etc.).

Quaunaut · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent green @ Aug 16 2004, 06:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Actually, quite a few scenes in D3 have 10+ lights. I'd love to give you a screenshot, but I'm still asleep atm.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Doubt it, there are plenty of "glowing" things and such that aren't actual light sources and don't cast any light. I can't say that I ever saw more than 2-3 of my own shadows at once while playing doom, and I could definetly feel the framerate take a pretty noticable slump just turning on the flashlight. Part of the problem is how many polygons there are to cast a shadow, its not really lights by themselves or polygons by themselves that hurt performance.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Well, howabout the entire Entropy scene? And don't say those weren't light sources, they were, I can promise you that one.

Soylent_green · August 2004

But do nearby objects and monsters cast a shadow from this light source? Or are they just tiny insignificant lights that light up a small proximity around themselves?

edit: haven't finished even a third of doom, because it has garbage gameplay and just doesn't interest me, technology wise it's interesting to look at. Most scenes look pretty much the same except for slightly altering assortment of monsters, slimy gunk, spider webs and laser thingamabobs, and you expect me to remember a scene from a game I could hardly keep myself awake while playing?

Rue · August 2004

The way I see it, the people saying 'OMG someone will crack open the cache!!!!" So?

If you have all the textures and sounds in the world were is it going to get you? not very far. Ok you might be able to listen to gman saying 'Wake up Mr Freeman' or something like that but I doubt that they will release any voice sounds. It will be stuff they have had finished for a while like

bullet1.ogg, bullet2.ogg,bullet3.ogg, etc, etc.

Not

gmanTellYouWhatHappensAtTheEndOfTheGame.ogg

and maybe the SDK too? since we have textures/sounds/models surley the SDK would help mod makers begin their work.

Travis_Dane · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent green @ Aug 16 2004, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Actually, quite a few scenes in D3 have 10+ lights. I'd love to give you a screenshot, but I'm still asleep atm.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Doubt it, there are plenty of "glowing" things and such that aren't actual light sources and don't cast any light, there's quite alot of tiny light sources that don't cast shadows and aren't really interesting. I can't say that I ever saw more than 2 or 3 shadows from different light sources at once while playing doom, and I could definetly feel the framerate take a pretty noticable slump just turning on the flashlight. Part of the problem is how many polygons there are to cast a shadow, its not really lights by themselves or polygons by themselves that hurt performance.

edit: With precompiled lighting each additional player costs as much for performance. With each player using a flashlight(nescesary when there are so few light sources) cost is much worse than linear with the number of players in view/casting a shadow into your view. I believe dynamic lights are very usefull, don't get me wrong, I just think there is going to have to be mechanisms limiting their use for years to come( such as using light maps for the main lighting, not making maps so dark that everyone allways has their flashlight on etc.). </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Boot up Doom3, do ctrl+alt+tidle, and type r_showlights 2. If correct you'll see (blue) rectangular boxes representing light being casted from points throughout the scene. The console also shows the amount of lights currently present in the scene, wich was, at an average, 12 when I tested it. You can actually see the lightnumber fluctuating as certain lights flicker.

Now i'm not certain wether all the lights in the scene cast their own set of shadows, but it is certainly better than HL2 could ever reproduce. I also have to wonder wether you should have more than a couple of lights casting substantial amounts of shadows. I certainly wouldn't like to see a scene turn into a shadow frenzy, and I doubt it is required to set a good atmosphere, as NS on HL probably has about 70-90% ambient lightning.

Further more I obviously don't need to point out all of this is mostly speculation, so i'd welcome anyone to try and port an existing NS map to Doom3 to see exactly how it works out.

Quaunaut · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Travis Dane @ Aug 16 2004, 09:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent green @ Aug 16 2004, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Actually, quite a few scenes in D3 have 10+ lights. I'd love to give you a screenshot, but I'm still asleep atm.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Doubt it, there are plenty of "glowing" things and such that aren't actual light sources and don't cast any light, there's quite alot of tiny light sources that don't cast shadows and aren't really interesting. I can't say that I ever saw more than 2 or 3 shadows from different light sources at once while playing doom, and I could definetly feel the framerate take a pretty noticable slump just turning on the flashlight. Part of the problem is how many polygons there are to cast a shadow, its not really lights by themselves or polygons by themselves that hurt performance.

edit: With precompiled lighting each additional player costs as much for performance. With each player using a flashlight(nescesary when there are so few light sources) cost is much worse than linear with the number of players in view/casting a shadow into your view. I believe dynamic lights are very usefull, don't get me wrong, I just think there is going to have to be mechanisms limiting their use for years to come( such as using light maps for the main lighting, not making maps so dark that everyone allways has their flashlight on etc.). </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Boot up Doom3, do ctrl+alt+tidle, and type r_showlights 2. If correct you'll see (blue) rectangular boxes representing light being casted from points throughout the scene. The console also shows the amount of lights currently present in the scene, wich was, at an average, 12 when I tested it. You can actually see the lightnumber fluctuating as certain lights flicker.

Now i'm not certain wether all the lights in the scene cast their own set of shadows, but it is certainly better than HL2 could ever reproduce. I also have to wonder wether you should have more than a couple of lights casting substantial amounts of shadows. I certainly wouldn't like to see a scene turn into a shadow frenzy, and I doubt it is required to set a good atmosphere, as NS on HL probably has about 70-90% ambient lightning.

Further more I obviously don't need to point out all of this is mostly speculation, so i'd welcome anyone to try and port an existing NS map to Doom3 to see exactly how it works out.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I've been trying to get KFS to allow me to copy it over, but he says if anyone does, he will. Darn Raven keeping him from showing us his Godliness in mapping.

Pepe_Muffassa · August 2004

I know this is a little off topic, but has anyone seen the shaddow error in the HL2 E3 demo?

It is the part with the crane - when gordon picks up the giant box and drops it on someone.

the shaddow is rendered incorrectly - the box has a shadow and so does the magnet (from the crane) - but the shadow shows one shadow <b>in</b> the other one.

I hope they get this fixed before release - I noticed it on my second time watching the clip, and now it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Crono5 · August 2004

I did, too, but I have a feeling they've either fixed it already, or get complaints from customers and will fix it in a patch.

Mullet · August 2004

Just thinking of NS on the source engine gives me the chills.......ooooo

Jim_has_Skillz · August 2004

Umm, you guys do realize whats going to happen when they start preloading all this stuff. We're talking about a game that will be well over 2 GBS being sent to you over the internet. Do you have any idea what will happen to the bandwith? Just look at what happens when steam releases a patch half the time. I am not sure how they are gonna control this but the smartest way would be to preload small parts at a time and eventually have the whole game on your computer in a month(which is probably what will happen).

But yeah don't expect to see HL2 anytime soon, its just preloading and the game isn't even Gold yet.

Quaunaut · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jim has Skillz @ Aug 16 2004, 02:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Umm, you guys do realize whats going to happen when they start preloading all this stuff. We're talking about a game that will be well over 2 GBS being sent to you over the internet. Do you have any idea what will happen to the bandwith? Just look at what happens when steam releases a patch half the time. I am not sure how they are gonna control this but the smartest way would be to preload small parts at a time and eventually have the whole game on your computer in a month(which is probably what will happen).

But yeah don't expect to see HL2 anytime soon, its just preloading and the game isn't even Gold yet.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Yeah, Gabe already confirmed thats how its going. "Things not needing change are being preloaded." That could mean the game is still 2 or 3 months off even.

The better the game <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

CommunistWithAGun · August 2004

Its been a year since they said it was comming out...I don't really even want it anymore. There is hype, and marketting hype, but too much can take the edge off, and thats what they have done to me. I might play it but I probably won't

TheWizard · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (404NotFound @ Aug 11 2004, 12:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
It would also GREATLY help to not have to download that much information. Here at college we can only download 1.5GB per week. I'd have to span the HL2 download over two weeks. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
404,

Talk to the lab consulting staff for help with that. Tell them I sent you. They can show you legal, but not common knowledge techniques for that.

edit: Best to go to the undergrad library (in pollock) to ask. The ones there would know me.

TheWizard · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pepe_Muffassa @ Aug 16 2004, 12:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I know this is a little off topic, but has anyone seen the shaddow error in the HL2 E3 demo?

It is the part with the crane - when gordon picks up the giant box and drops it on someone.

the shaddow is rendered incorrectly - the box has a shadow and so does the magnet (from the crane) - but the shadow shows one shadow <b>in</b> the other one.

I hope they get this fixed before release - I noticed it on my second time watching the clip, and now it sticks out like a sore thumb.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
In the other one? Like the crane shadow and box shadow are merged? Or is it some other shadow that is showing up?

Mantrid · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pepe_Muffassa @ Aug 16 2004, 09:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I know this is a little off topic, but has anyone seen the shaddow error in the HL2 E3 demo?

It is the part with the crane - when gordon picks up the giant box and drops it on someone.

the shaddow is rendered incorrectly - the box has a shadow and so does the magnet (from the crane) - but the shadow shows one shadow <b>in</b> the other one.

I hope they get this fixed before release - I noticed it on my second time watching the clip, and now it sticks out like a sore thumb.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Not to sound rude, but <i>it's a freakin' shadow!</i> We're going to get the sequel to the game that is the mark from where all other FPS are judged, with a physics system and life-like characters, and you're worrying about <i>shadows</i>? Its really not that big a deal.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I might play it but I probably won't</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Aww, don't pretend you won't play it. You will, as will probably everyone else, even if they just play a demo at Best Buy.

Crono5 · August 2004

Any news on when the pre-load's supposed to commence? I see that they'ved up their max bandwidth.

Tequila · August 2004

The 18th. Or was it the 17th? No idea, completely different time zone y'see.

NumbersNotFound · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Aug 16 2004, 04:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (404NotFound @ Aug 11 2004, 12:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
It would also GREATLY help to not have to download that much information. Here at college we can only download 1.5GB per week. I'd have to span the HL2 download over two weeks. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
404,

Talk to the lab consulting staff for help with that. Tell them I sent you. They can show you legal, but not common knowledge techniques for that.

edit: Best to go to the undergrad library (in pollock) to ask. The ones there would know me.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Hey, thanks. It'll be a little bit of a walk from where i'm at in the fall, but it'll be worth it for HL2 goodness <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

Hybridclaw · August 2004

bet it will be delayed...........
again........

StormLiong · August 2004

w00t good stuff happening on my bday!

enf0rcer · August 2004

slightly ot: restart steam now for the CS:S preload <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' />

Half-life 2 Preloads 8/17

Comments