######! What is wrong with most serveradmins? I see millions of posts about imbalance just because the admins just HAD to tweak a playtested and balanced game. If some people could just keep their twiddly little fingers where they belong we wouldn't have this discussion.
I just got out of a few hours of playing this and you know, until a patch is addressed to fixs the CPU problem, the resources, etc., people are gonna ##### up a storm.
Hell, even I was bitching because half the time the marines had twice as many guys (14 - 7) as we did.
However. When the teams were balanced, the game played beautifully. We set up a few web traps (using too many webs, but now I know to be cautious) and had offensive chambers waiting and it worked pretty damn well. We played as a team and we had plenty of resources for upgrading.
The problem is everyone is new to this game. Because of that, everyone is joining the Marines to get used to the game. Not only that, they join the aliens for the first time, run in like morons, get destroyed and then ##### at how unbalanced it is and either quit the game or join the Marines again. Just retarded.
Another stupid thing is the server admin must've screwed with the resources, because the Marines managed to chain link and an entire turret farm from one corner all the way into our base. No way we can stop 8 turrets in proximity to one another. So, yes, when the resources are messed with people do retarded things like that. That ###### me off quite a bit and I just left the game. Too much idiocy.
For a glimpse, I managed to play the game it was intended to be played. It was sweet-### action. Does that mean the game should be further balanced? It's a definate possibility. All the play testing in the world won't make a game perfectly balanced when the masses get it. This isn't to say the aliens are underpowered, or whatever. It's to say people do things that sometimes others never figure out, including developers. Example? Ever skywalk on Dust in CounterStrike? Or fall off the cliff and land on the perch in Prodigy? What about holding the use key before firing with the AWP? Were they meant to be there? Doubtful. Some were fixed, but some weren't.
So, instead of everyone saying how thoroughly the mod was tested and discarding any complaints for REAL legitimate issues, think about it. A lot of people just whine, but some people might actually have a good idea once in a while. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
I commend the developers of this mod for the mod itself and acknowledging the problems that have cropped up. Once the game plays the way they want, we shall see how many people ##### about things like linking turrets around a map, or having 9000 heavy machine gunners running around.
In closing, give the aliens a chance, they're far better than you think, you just need to use them properly.
Today I had a match between good to very good Alien Players and Noob Marines all the way. I did my job as commander, since nobody else would do it. They got wiped out by the Alien like nothing, they needed to be ordered all the way without being autonomous, and when they were autonomous, they made useless suicide actions, which only costed the resources for the new weapons (HMG, Heavy Armor).
Altough heavily guarded by dozens of Sentries the Aliens overcame our encampment within several minutes instead of hours. I saw with my own eyes at the overview, when they destroyed 6 cannons in less than 2 minutes and it must have been only a couple of Aliens, coz they seemed to be everywhere on the map.
Instead of finding and fighting new resources and giving me exact locations, so that I could react faster, they only had a demand for weaponry, which later near the defeat was impossible to give since resource were depleted and they could fight out more.
It was an embarrasing game with one certain Alienplayer wiping out dozen of marines one after another as skulk, by lurking at them in invisibility or crushing them in pairs as Onos.
All I can say is the Aliens have ####### potential. The problem is that they NEED all 3 hives. It would be good, if the ability to build certain chambers does not rely on the hives. Further the resource tower for the aliens should be cheaper. Maybe 15, since they have to morph into a Gorge first for 13 points, and it takes a long time to get another 22 or even 80.
If the Marines manage to fully secure one hive, you can be sure that you wont see any land in this game anymore, since if they block the defense chmabers with that task, you have o chance of absolving effective hit and run tactics.
Especially if the Marines are twice as much as the Aliens. I already had 11 Marines vs 5 Aliens, no lie.
It is compulsory that 2 guys of the alien team each make their way to both hives simultaneously, while the others gather as much resources as they can get.
Some people deny to morph into a Gorge, that´s ridiculous, since they could always morph again back to their old shape.
If you see an open resource while being another class, simply morph into a gorge, occupie the resources via Tower, and change back. But this seems too difficult for some People.
only time aliens ever won when there is a noob commander and aliens rushed. I wish i could play vs noobs as alien. the logic i dont get is. aliens are suppose to be very powerful... yet one human can take us out no probs. i mean 1 human took out 3 of us and we was biting him. I love ha.
last time I played aliens and the 3rd hive was defended by the fronteersmen, we used offence chamber pushing + some lurks needling the hell out of the sentries we recapped the hive after about 5-10 minutes
problem was when the humans got their hands on grenade launchers ...
So far I have played aliens only. This is because they need every extra player they can get. Aliens need extremely good team work to come through, but as an alien there are some tips:
Starting: Keep pressure on the marines, send out skulk packs to give them trouble, leave one person back to become a gorge. As a skulk, respect that you can walk on damb near anything, and that you are fast as lightning. A shocked marine is a dear marine. Any suriving skulks should have enough resources to pile back to the hive and become a gorge. Now I've seen offensive towers in action, they are a reasonable thwart to the enemy, but they rarely help. Don't spend your time and resources on too much of them, instead, get an upgrade chamber in the corner of the hive, and go searching for more resource nodes. Build a resource tower where ever you see one, it doesn't matter if it'll be attacked after long, it may help you get the resources needed for a second hive. A second hive is a very important goal. Once two hives have been secured, build a MOVEMENT chamber. I think this a such a usful building, it makes the two hives you have become practically next door to each other. Now you should have two good upgrades, and some steady resources (unless they have been wiped out.) And one who doesn't want to be a gorge should stay as a skulk and keep pressure on the marines, remember, use those cielings.
Finally, plan attacks using evolutions of all kinds. A three fade attack may not be as effective as a lerk, fade and skulk attack, purely because of the wide abilities each alien has.
Working as a team is essential for the aliens. Get a microphone and check people can hear you clearly at the start of the round.
I agree. No matter what you say the aliens are great. First of all a skulk bite is extremely powerful against structures. Aliens don't run out of ammo. Aliens can do multiple attack everywhere while the marines have to focus their attacks due to ammo and health restricitions.
Yesterday I joined in a 8 player server with friends of mine. Guess what? The aliens beat the #### out of the marines. The aliens were everywhere due to their speed and wall climbing abilties. All the hives were functional in no time while the marines were trying to aim their attacks at a certain location.
As the marines were building turrets here and there the entire map was infested by webs and offence chambers. The skulks destroyed the marine resource towers as soon as they appeared. Moments after the skulks had turned into resource tower building gorcs all around the map.
You wanna blame all the problems on screwy admins?
WELL YOU CAN DAMN WELL THINK AGAIN
I op my own server (live in australia, not many about) so i dont think you can get a better gaurentee of designer implimented settings/balance as i dont change anything.
Even with normal cash (as marines), there is still plenty to throw down at the start the few buildings you need, and have your teammate(s) (often playing 2v2 or 3v3 as my computer cant take too much and its not a dedicated server) waypointed off to a resource node/plenty of turrets off your initial cash/mine.
While not linking around the whole map, its still incredably easy to take and hold a postion (HIVE CLUSTER ANYONE?!?)
Ive probably played more aliens than marines so far and ill tell you the one thing that allows us ANY kills at all with melee attacks: LAG
When the game is starting off everyone has sort of decent pings and the skulks get owned no matter how well you plot and lay in wait for them, they can still snap around and own you. But later on once the turrets are banked up and my computer gets bogged, the average ping is 2-400. Then we can finally get a shot at some kills, as its much harder to overcome your reaction and aim properly in that ping.
On top of that, onos, which everyone seems to think of as the only way to kill anything later on are WORSE than useless, i would rather a SKULK. Countless times i have morphed one and gone up to an outpost, with or without support, small and large. But every single time NOT A SINLGE CLAW attack connects (keep in mind i am server and have very low ping, even tho it gets to 50-100 late game). I have run up to an outpost with 2 damaged sentrys + misc other buildings with clear access to sentrys. I spent my WHOLE 500 HP (including regen) gnawing at one sentry but it didnt take ANY damage. I even tried crouching (like that huge thing should be able to crouch) to get at its base but it still doesnt work. NEVER do ANY of the ono attacks connect. None of the other attacks/weapons does any good either. I have had a bit of success gnawing into marines, but once again its due to lag (them not being able to move properly coupled with my server ping).
Now the offensive towers: WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY THINKING? I have walked out into an entire hive cluster of them, opened up with any gun at all, emptied it (and all ammo, reloading while under fire), emptied my pistol, KNIFED THEM WHILE CIRCLE STRAFING. I KILLED A WHOLE BASE LIKE THAT: end result: no base AND I STILL HAVE 100 HP. The turrets were shooting at me sure, but a little strafing and you can laugh it off. It takes over a minute of dodging back and forth behind a wall with acid rocket to take down 1 tower, that is if a marine doesnt come along first.
Conclusion: NS has great potential but is currently rather broken.
-lock resources -auto team balance (with odd # of players favour aliens) -make alien defense not SUCK NADS or -make marine sentrys not instant hit so you can dodge them and destroy as easy as alien turrets (but you would still run out of energy badly) -make ono attacks actually HURT
EDIT: Also jetpacks are way too powerful vs any melee attack. And given to non instant hit and lowish dmg of most ranged alien attacks, your invincable. Ive run (whilst reloading) into a room with a bunch of OFF towers, 2-3 fades and the odd lurk, and got out with very minimal damage
<!--QuoteBegin--chubbysteve+Nov. 03 2002,09:28--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (chubbysteve @ Nov. 03 2002,09:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->*sigh* I still haven't won a game as an alien.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> and you wont unless they patch it
marine rox. I hate playing alien but I do ............... aliens suck I hae feeling like a weak blob i hate playing alien so much its sad I want marine vs marine in bata 2
Played 5 games last night. The 4th we lost because they got orginized for the first time.
We won all the others <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
Hell, a Skulk with Cloak and maybe Carapece can go a long way in killing and scaring the crap outta marines. And a Lerk with spores is something to be reckoned with.
it depends on who gets the stuff first. a race i guess. but aliens lose cause a they get resoruces slower. Aliens should have upper hand not humans. So increase aliens hp make them able to use all attacks but need hives for upgrade or something i dont know. all i know is 1 good human with no lag can own6 aliens how?? dont know saw it happen. our heals suck also compare to there med packs. So all and all. this game right now sucks. people say they won as aliens had noob humans vs them or lag factor.Want to know truth? if they get hands on one hive then we are screwed. We cant do anything keep them from getting launchers really. if they want it bad enough they will get it. then what of our defs? our defs suck. why do i even defend aliens i will NEVER play as them like they are now. and now i am being force to play alien? hmmm you just lost faction with some players.
I think a large problem with the Kharaa is that there is NOTHING that attracts players in that team! They're slow and weak. The marines have assault rifles and a commander thingy.
As someone said, THE ALIENS ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE THE UPPER HAND, NOT THE MARINES! If you look at Aliens (the movie) the aliens have an upper hand over the marines. That's the way players want it. That's what is COOL. If you can tear an alien apart with less than a magazine, that's not scary, that's not cool.
Many players also forget that there is no limitation in morphs. When you are a skulk at the biginning and you pass a resource, then morph into a Gorge, get a resorce tower there and morph back to the skulk. But most people stay fixed to their formes, which is disadvantage.
Also right at the beginning of the round 2 alien players should each go for the hives as skulks and there immediatly morph into gorges to get the resource tower there and the hives, while the other hunt as skulk, but as soon as they find a resource take their time to cap this thingie.
humbabaThat Exciting Tales From the Frontline GuyJoin Date: 2002-01-25Member: 86Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Alien turrets ARE weaker than marien turrets. But Aliens have Many more ways of getting past marine turrets. I see many alien players get tunnel vision and try so hard to kill marien turrets, when a vent going past them is plainly visible and htey can simply leap past them. I have played 3 alien games in the past 2 days where I leap past the marien defenses and chomp apart the Command Console. Alien turrets can also be used in conjunction with Defnese Chambers and Webs AND they notify your teammates when they are being attacked, so they can rush to your aid.
Today the aliens manages to win 6 times in a row. <b><u>6 TIMES!</u></b> The two last games lasted less than 10 minutes since we, the aliens were so fast that the marines could only spawn once. Only a few spawned twice.
We attacked as skuls instantly. The commander had barely had time to build a spawn point which was destroyed moments after all the marines were killed. The marines didn't have anything, no extra health or ammo.
Now stop whining and learn to use the aliens. Learn to combine the different weapons for attacks. Once you do that you will kick the shit out of the marines, whether there is resource bug or not. They sipmly won't have enough time since you are just too darn fast and versatile.
If you don't like the aliens that will pwn you as soon as people actually learn to use them, then go play cs.
Id have to agree with the 2 posts above... aliens do have advantages ...players just have to learn... I dont know how many times ive run past blockades of 6-8 turrets.. only to morph into a fade and tear up marines... and that an early alien rush can win a game or set back the marines 5 or so minutes.
Not when you learn the basic alien tactics <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Haha yeah.. love playing aliens... Ive played marines a few times against some alienteamates who im usually better than... Im scared to hell.. heaven only knows what marines think when i rush them...
I've tried arguing this point several times when the Kharaa were my opponent. However, some people don't realize that the Kharaa's power is equal to, if not greater than, the marines. For example, the other day I was playing with someone who apparently thinks that "the aliens should have more players than the marines". This is not true. I said, "If you'd use your resources and gorgs effectively you could easily have access to several new species of Kharaa, instead of just attacking from the start." But it was all pure futileness. Those ignoramuses can't comprehend anything, and it's starting to really bug me. So, the next time someone complains about aliens having the disadvantage maybe I'll point them in this direction. Thanks for the post. <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
When people say stop whinning and learn to play the aliens it really pisses me off. A) most who say that have never played them B) you won ... gj thing is you had to of been playing against stupid marines or you happened to have every player working perfectly together C) why learn them when they aren't fun? Spending 10 minutes as a gorge holding the e key to lock down one place and then having marines kill you isn't fun. D) the entire community wouldn't be bitching if all we had to do was "learn to play them"
I finally played on a server (Jarheadz) where the economy was right. As a Marine commander, RPs were extremely scarce, and HA/GLs and even HMGs were difficult to pass out.
So, the Marines lost two times. But, in both situations, the commander neglected to take over a 3rd hive with turrets. In the third game, we took over the enemy hive in the beginning.. placfed five turrets there.. and for the next 70 minutes, the Aliens never got it back. (in fact, the Aliens for some reason had INFINITE resources.. and so it might not have ever gotten back if it weren't for this weird occurance.. Also, *I* was the one who built the turrets there.. and *I* was the one who destroyed them later as an Alien. We strategically placed the turrets far away to create an extreme nuisance for Umbra/Fade users. So I had to dart them for 5 minutes. Groan. ALSO, the Marines never came to the area's defense. Which would've prevented any recapture of the area with ease.) AND this was all happening while the Marines had few resources. They had no HA, and few HMG.
Despite lack of resources for the Marines, the simple act of taking over of the 3rd hive made the Aliens nearly worthless. They simply could not advance. I firmly believe that this game's problems will not be fixed by the resource economy patch, and that getting the 3rd hive will usually be the only way for the Aliens to win. Without the Onos, the Aliens are too weak. With it, they're too strong. The posts above clearly illustrate this problem: non-Onos are entirely ineffective in taking out the Marines base UNLESS it's at the very beginning of the game (which is obviously not supposed to be a common occurence, and is simply indicative of incompetent Marines). In my 15 hours of NS playing so far, I am yet to see Aliens win in anything but the two following situations: 1) Skulk rush at beginning. 2) Onos attack at the end.
The Aliens do not have a middle game. If they dont' win at the beginning, they will spend the rest of the game doing nothing but stalling the Marines until they can get Onos. At which point, the game ends extremely quickly.. for the Marines. (Think about all the Alien games you've played. How many times you constantly hear "We NEED Onos." "We have GOT to get the third hive and get ONOS!!!" Does anyone ever say: "Let's just play well, get organized, and attack together with our Fades/Lerks/Skulks.. we can beat them." ?? No. It's never said, because it's absurd to think it'll do anything but waste time.)
As far as I know, no popular RTS game has anything that resembles this. If this concept was intentional, then NS is the first to do anything like it, and I dont' think it was a good way to go.
I hate to admit it guys, but even with the messed up resources aliens can still win without too much trouble with good strategy, teamwork, and gorges. If you can rush their base before they get turrets, the marines who are busy building are cake. this slows the down ALOT. as long as you can keep a steady attack with at least 2 skulks at a time, you can keep the marines bottled up for at least 10 good minutes, while they scramble for turret/resources. The most important part of this strategy is that the gorges expand the alines resources, hives and defences to take advantage of the delay caused by the attack. With this strategy, even if fairly poorly executed, you are almost guaranteed 2 hives, 3 if well done. One factor that probably contributed to the idea that aliens suck was that no one knew the maps, because you cant rush a base you cant find, also many new players are confused with the new interface and arent 100% sure what they should do. The reason marines seem godlike when the have branched out, is because they gain resources faster than aliens, because it all goes to the com, it isnt spread around. However if they can't get any resource towers because you have bottled them in. Another advantage to this is, fades seem pretty DAMN powerful to a marine with 30 armor and a light machine gun, even if they dont have bile bomb. once aliens get spore cloud, bile bomb, and onos its pretty much over. So trust me guys, even with the "unbalance" that the patch will soon fix, aliens are definately not underpowered. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well i have 2 things to say about this... EVERYONE JOINS THE MARINES!!! ill rant a little later in a different post... the aliens against powerarmor w/a hmg... suck... how do you take these guys out? the fade will take too long... the onos takes a good 5 direct smacks to kill em... and... frankly the onos gets chewed up by hmg lead... lets pictures this... <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> + <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> = one half dead <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> ... whatd i do wrong there? anyway thats all i can say here... look at "My NS experiences..."
Comments
sorry...
I see millions of posts about imbalance just because the admins just HAD to tweak a playtested and balanced game.
If some people could just keep their twiddly little fingers where they belong we wouldn't have this discussion.
Am I right?
Hell, even I was bitching because half the time the marines had twice as many guys (14 - 7) as we did.
However. When the teams were balanced, the game played beautifully. We set up a few web traps (using too many webs, but now I know to be cautious) and had offensive chambers waiting and it worked pretty damn well. We played as a team and we had plenty of resources for upgrading.
The problem is everyone is new to this game. Because of that, everyone is joining the Marines to get used to the game. Not only that, they join the aliens for the first time, run in like morons, get destroyed and then ##### at how unbalanced it is and either quit the game or join the Marines again. Just retarded.
Another stupid thing is the server admin must've screwed with the resources, because the Marines managed to chain link and an entire turret farm from one corner all the way into our base. No way we can stop 8 turrets in proximity to one another. So, yes, when the resources are messed with people do retarded things like that. That ###### me off quite a bit and I just left the game. Too much idiocy.
For a glimpse, I managed to play the game it was intended to be played. It was sweet-### action. Does that mean the game should be further balanced? It's a definate possibility. All the play testing in the world won't make a game perfectly balanced when the masses get it. This isn't to say the aliens are underpowered, or whatever. It's to say people do things that sometimes others never figure out, including developers.
Example? Ever skywalk on Dust in CounterStrike? Or fall off the cliff and land on the perch in Prodigy? What about holding the use key before firing with the AWP? Were they meant to be there? Doubtful. Some were fixed, but some weren't.
So, instead of everyone saying how thoroughly the mod was tested and discarding any complaints for REAL legitimate issues, think about it. A lot of people just whine, but some people might actually have a good idea once in a while. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
I commend the developers of this mod for the mod itself and acknowledging the problems that have cropped up. Once the game plays the way they want, we shall see how many people ##### about things like linking turrets around a map, or having 9000 heavy machine gunners running around.
In closing, give the aliens a chance, they're far better than you think, you just need to use them properly.
Today I had a match between good to very good Alien Players and Noob Marines all the way. I did my job as commander, since nobody else would do it. They got wiped out by the Alien like nothing, they needed to be ordered all the way without being autonomous, and when they were autonomous, they made useless suicide actions, which only costed the resources for the new weapons (HMG, Heavy Armor).
Altough heavily guarded by dozens of Sentries the Aliens overcame our encampment within several minutes instead of hours. I saw with my own eyes at the overview, when they destroyed 6 cannons in less than 2 minutes and it must have been only a couple of Aliens, coz they seemed to be everywhere on the map.
Instead of finding and fighting new resources and giving me exact locations, so that I could react faster, they only had a demand for weaponry, which later near the defeat was impossible to give since resource were depleted and they could fight out more.
It was an embarrasing game with one certain Alienplayer wiping out dozen of marines one after another as skulk, by lurking at them in invisibility or crushing them in pairs as Onos.
All I can say is the Aliens have ####### potential. The problem is that they NEED all 3 hives. It would be good, if the ability to build certain chambers does not rely on the hives. Further the resource tower for the aliens should be cheaper. Maybe 15, since they have to morph into a Gorge first for 13 points, and it takes a long time to get another 22 or even 80.
If the Marines manage to fully secure one hive, you can be sure that you wont see any land in this game anymore, since if they block the defense chmabers with that task, you have o chance of absolving effective hit and run tactics.
Especially if the Marines are twice as much as the Aliens. I already had 11 Marines vs 5 Aliens, no lie.
It is compulsory that 2 guys of the alien team each make their way to both hives simultaneously, while the others gather as much resources as they can get.
Some people deny to morph into a Gorge, that´s ridiculous, since they could always morph again back to their old shape.
If you see an open resource while being another class, simply morph into a gorge, occupie the resources via Tower, and change back. But this seems too difficult for some People.
we recapped the hive after about 5-10 minutes
problem was when the humans got their hands on grenade launchers ...
Aliens need extremely good team work to come through, but as an alien there are some tips:
Starting: Keep pressure on the marines, send out skulk packs to give them trouble, leave one person back to become a gorge.
As a skulk, respect that you can walk on damb near anything, and that you are fast as lightning. A shocked marine is a dear marine.
Any suriving skulks should have enough resources to pile back to the hive and become a gorge. Now I've seen offensive towers in action, they are a reasonable thwart to the enemy, but they rarely help. Don't spend your time and resources on too much of them, instead, get an upgrade chamber in the corner of the hive, and go searching for more resource nodes.
Build a resource tower where ever you see one, it doesn't matter if it'll be attacked after long, it may help you get the resources needed for a second hive.
A second hive is a very important goal. Once two hives have been secured, build a MOVEMENT chamber. I think this a such a usful building, it makes the two hives you have become practically next door to each other.
Now you should have two good upgrades, and some steady resources (unless they have been wiped out.) And one who doesn't want to be a gorge should stay as a skulk and keep pressure on the marines, remember, use those cielings.
Finally, plan attacks using evolutions of all kinds. A three fade attack may not be as effective as a lerk, fade and skulk attack, purely because of the wide abilities each alien has.
Working as a team is essential for the aliens. Get a microphone and check people can hear you clearly at the start of the round.
First of all a skulk bite is extremely powerful against structures. Aliens don't run out of ammo. Aliens can do multiple attack everywhere while the marines have to focus their attacks due to ammo and health restricitions.
Yesterday I joined in a 8 player server with friends of mine. Guess what? The aliens beat the #### out of the marines. The aliens were everywhere due to their speed and wall climbing abilties. All the hives were functional in no time while the marines were trying to aim their attacks at a certain location.
As the marines were building turrets here and there the entire map was infested by webs and offence chambers. The skulks destroyed the marine resource towers as soon as they appeared. Moments after the skulks had turned into resource tower building gorcs all around the map.
<img src="http://koti.mbnet.fi/stratty/images/alienscanlix.jpg" border="0">
This is from a public ns server. I had just killed 3 marines and destroyed the cc as a skulk at the main base.
WELL YOU CAN DAMN WELL THINK AGAIN
I op my own server (live in australia, not many about) so i dont think you can get a better gaurentee of designer implimented settings/balance as i dont change anything.
Even with normal cash (as marines), there is still plenty to throw down at the start the few buildings you need, and have your teammate(s) (often playing 2v2 or 3v3 as my computer cant take too much and its not a dedicated server)
waypointed off to a resource node/plenty of turrets off your initial cash/mine.
While not linking around the whole map, its still incredably easy to take and hold a postion (HIVE CLUSTER ANYONE?!?)
Ive probably played more aliens than marines so far and ill tell you the one thing that allows us ANY kills at all with melee attacks: LAG
When the game is starting off everyone has sort of decent pings and the skulks get owned no matter how well you plot and lay in wait for them, they can still snap around and own you. But later on once the turrets are banked up and my computer gets bogged, the average ping is 2-400. Then we can finally get a shot at some kills, as its much harder to overcome your reaction and aim properly in that ping.
On top of that, onos, which everyone seems to think of as the only way to kill anything later on are WORSE than useless, i would rather a SKULK. Countless times i have morphed one and gone up to an outpost, with or without support, small and large. But every single time NOT A SINLGE CLAW attack connects (keep in mind i am server and have very low ping, even tho it gets to 50-100 late game). I have run up to an outpost with 2 damaged sentrys + misc other buildings with clear access to sentrys. I spent my WHOLE 500 HP (including regen) gnawing at one sentry but it didnt take ANY damage. I even tried crouching (like that huge thing should be able to crouch) to get at its base but it still doesnt work. NEVER do ANY of the ono attacks connect. None of the other attacks/weapons does any good either. I have had a bit of success gnawing into marines, but once again its due to lag (them not being able to move properly coupled with my server ping).
Now the offensive towers: WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY THINKING? I have walked out into an entire hive cluster of them, opened up with any gun at all, emptied it (and all ammo, reloading while under fire), emptied my pistol, KNIFED THEM WHILE CIRCLE STRAFING. I KILLED A WHOLE BASE LIKE THAT: end result: no base AND I STILL HAVE 100 HP. The turrets were shooting at me sure, but a little strafing and you can laugh it off. It takes over a minute of dodging back and forth behind a wall with acid rocket to take down 1 tower, that is if a marine doesnt come along first.
Conclusion: NS has great potential but is currently rather broken.
-lock resources
-auto team balance (with odd # of players favour aliens)
-make alien defense not SUCK NADS
or -make marine sentrys not instant hit so you can dodge them and destroy as easy as alien turrets (but you would still run out of energy badly)
-make ono attacks actually HURT
EDIT: Also jetpacks are way too powerful vs any melee attack. And given to non instant hit and lowish dmg of most ranged alien attacks, your invincable. Ive run (whilst reloading) into a room with a bunch of OFF towers, 2-3 fades and the odd lurk, and got out with very minimal damage
and you wont unless they patch it
We won all the others <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
Hell, a Skulk with Cloak and maybe Carapece can go a long way in killing and scaring the crap outta marines. And a Lerk with spores is something to be reckoned with.
CHOKE YOU ########! MWAHAHAHA!
As someone said, THE ALIENS ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE THE UPPER HAND, NOT THE MARINES!
If you look at Aliens (the movie) the aliens have an upper hand over the marines. That's the way players want it. That's what is COOL. If you can tear an alien apart with less than a magazine, that's not scary, that's not cool.
Also right at the beginning of the round 2 alien players should each go for the hives as skulks and there immediatly morph into gorges to get the resource tower there and the hives, while the other hunt as skulk, but as soon as they find a resource take their time to cap this thingie.
Resource is might!
But I agree, the marine turrets seem a tad too powerful. 3 of them are able to lock down a room.
I rest my case.
The two last games lasted less than 10 minutes since we, the aliens were so fast that the marines could only spawn once. Only a few spawned twice.
We attacked as skuls instantly. The commander had barely had time to build a spawn point which was destroyed moments after all the marines were killed. The marines didn't have anything, no extra health or ammo.
Scores from 3 different games:
<img src='http://koti.mbnet.fi/stratty/images/alienspwn.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://koti.mbnet.fi/stratty/images/alienspwn2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://koti.mbnet.fi/stratty/images/alienspwn3.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Now stop whining and learn to use the aliens. Learn to combine the different weapons for attacks. Once you do that you will kick the shit out of the marines, whether there is resource bug or not. They sipmly won't have enough time since you are just too darn fast and versatile.
If you don't like the aliens that will pwn you as soon as people actually learn to use them, then go play cs.
For example, the other day I was playing with someone who apparently thinks that "the aliens should have more players than the marines".
This is not true. I said, "If you'd use your resources and gorgs effectively you could easily have access to several new species of Kharaa, instead of just attacking from the start." But it was all pure futileness. Those ignoramuses can't comprehend anything, and it's starting to really bug me.
So, the next time someone complains about aliens having the disadvantage maybe I'll point them in this direction.
Thanks for the post. <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
Kthxbye
-rant mode terminated-
As a Marine commander, RPs were extremely scarce, and HA/GLs and even
HMGs were difficult to pass out.
So, the Marines lost two times. But, in both situations, the commander neglected
to take over a 3rd hive with turrets. In the third game, we took over
the enemy hive in the beginning.. placfed five turrets there.. and for the next 70 minutes, the Aliens never got it back. (in fact, the Aliens for some reason had INFINITE resources.. and so it might not have ever gotten back if it weren't for this weird occurance.. Also, *I* was the one who built the turrets there.. and *I* was the one who destroyed them later as an Alien. We strategically placed the turrets far away to create an extreme nuisance for Umbra/Fade users. So I had to dart them for 5 minutes. Groan. ALSO, the Marines never came to the area's defense. Which would've prevented any recapture of the area with ease.) AND this was all happening while the Marines had few resources. They had no HA, and few HMG.
Despite lack of resources for the Marines, the simple act of taking over of the 3rd hive made the Aliens nearly worthless. They simply could not advance. I firmly believe that this game's problems will not be fixed by the resource economy patch, and that getting the 3rd hive will usually be the only way for the Aliens to win. Without the Onos, the Aliens are too weak. With it, they're too strong. The posts above clearly illustrate this problem: non-Onos are entirely ineffective in taking out the Marines base UNLESS it's at the very beginning of the game (which is obviously not supposed to be a common occurence, and is simply indicative of incompetent Marines). In my 15 hours of NS playing so far, I am yet to see Aliens win in anything but the two following situations:
1) Skulk rush at beginning.
2) Onos attack at the end.
The Aliens do not have a middle game. If they dont' win at the beginning, they will spend the rest of the game doing nothing but stalling the Marines until they can get Onos. At which point, the game ends extremely quickly.. for the Marines.
(Think about all the Alien games you've played. How many times you constantly hear "We NEED Onos." "We have GOT to get the third hive and get ONOS!!!" Does anyone ever say: "Let's just play well, get organized, and attack together with our Fades/Lerks/Skulks.. we can beat them." ?? No. It's never said, because it's absurd to think it'll do anything but waste time.)
As far as I know, no popular RTS game has anything that resembles this. If this concept was intentional, then NS is the first to do anything like it, and I dont' think it was a good way to go.
EVERYONE JOINS THE MARINES!!! ill rant a little later in a different post...
the aliens against powerarmor w/a hmg... suck... how do you take these guys out? the fade will take too long... the onos takes a good 5 direct smacks to kill em... and... frankly the onos gets chewed up by hmg lead... lets pictures this... <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> + <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> = one half dead <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> ... whatd i do wrong there? anyway thats all i can say here... look at "My NS experiences..."