Arg!

SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">STUPID HARDDRIVE, GOOOOO!!!</div> I'm trying to install a new slave harddrive on my windows XP system. Pull it out of the case, plug everything in properly, configure the jumper's to slave, nada. The bios detects the drive, and device manager sees it there, but windows doesn't see the space in it.

Don't tell me I have the jumpers set up incorrectly, because I have already tryed every logical jumper setting, and nothing works. As far as I can tell the auto detect features windows is supposed to have are just not working, so if anyone knows how I can manually get windows to detect this new drive it would be much apreciated.

Possible needed infoes:
Running Windows XP pro (upgrade, which should be irrelevent, but might mean my manual is more useless than normal)
Brand new, untouched Samsung 160gig SP1614C
Currently running an MSI 845PE max Mobo
I'm really frustrated right now (ok so maby you don't need that info, so what you gonna do about it?)

BTW: Don't tell me to RTFM, becasue the samsung drive manual tells me to refer to the OS manual, and the Windows XP manual imply's that there is no way to format/partition a drive without installing windows on it as the master drive, which I know for a fact is BS.
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Comments

  • TalesinTalesin Our own little well of hate Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
    A) Did you set your existing hard drive to Master? Some do not require a jumper to operate in Single-Disk mode *or* Master mode, but many still do have a different setting to distinguish between them.

    B) Did you remember to FORMAT THE NEW DRIVE? Use fdisk, PartitionMagic, or some other tool. Windows won't see it if it's just unallocated empty space. It needs to have a partition table to be recognized.
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  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    edited August 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-Talesin+Aug 27 2004, 12:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Aug 27 2004, 12:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A) Did you set your existing hard drive to Master? Some do not require a jumper to operate in Single-Disk mode *or* Master mode, but many still do have a different setting to distinguish between them.

    B) Did you remember to FORMAT THE NEW DRIVE? Use fdisk, PartitionMagic, or some other tool. Windows won't see it if it's just unallocated empty space. It needs to have a partition table to be recognized. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I knew I had to format the new drive, but I couldn't figure out how. I'll get back here if I need more help.

    Gah, Fdisk won't detect the new drive, only the existing one...
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  • TalesinTalesin Our own little well of hate Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
    Make sure you actually have the jumpers set right. The BIOS might detect its presence, but if the primary drive is still set to Single Disk instead of Master, the machine won't be able to access the new Slave drive.

    FDisk will be able to access and do the format, if the hardware is properly set up. Just remember that you need to change volumes to work with the new HDD.

    Alternately, you could download a Linux installer (one of the tiny ones) and burn it to a CD. Most of those come with a formatting tool (the un-crippled version of fdisk, usually... the one with windows is screwed over, so it can't handle as many partition types) which should work if your on-disk one is messed up.


    Again. MAKE CERTAIN your primary disk is set to Master. It sounds like it's set to Single Disk right now.
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  • RuByRuBy Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10732Members
    Listen to him, he knows stuff. But otherwise PartitionMagic works nice if you can get a hold of it.
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  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Talesin+Aug 27 2004, 01:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Aug 27 2004, 01:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Make sure you actually have the jumpers set right. The BIOS might detect its presence, but if the primary drive is still set to Single Disk instead of Master, the machine won't be able to access the new Slave drive.

    FDisk will be able to access and do the format, if the hardware is properly set up. Just remember that you need to change volumes to work with the new HDD.

    Alternately, you could download a Linux installer (one of the tiny ones) and burn it to a CD. Most of those come with a formatting tool (the un-crippled version of fdisk, usually... the one with windows is screwed over, so it can't handle as many partition types) which should work if your on-disk one is messed up.


    Again. MAKE CERTAIN your primary disk is set to Master. It sounds like it's set to Single Disk right now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'm all but positive my primary drive is set to master, I was running a slave disk just yesterday, but it was making "I'm broken" pinging and clicking sounds, so I replaced it, I haven't touched my jumpers at all since then, except on the new drive. Could you link me to a lunix install, I have never touched the things before in my life and have no idea what I'm looking for...
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  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    edited August 2004
    Update: partition magic demo sees drive, and can create partitions on it, but the primary partion remains unalocated, so windows can't see the drive. Fdisk simply does not see the drive at all. I need to format this stupid thing and partition it somehow in windows primary format, but I have no idea how to do it, and I can't force the partition magic demo to do it.

    [edit]Update 2: Figured out how to make partion magic change my partition to the primary format, but stupid demo version can't make any acctual changes, it just pretends and then at the last moment notifies you "oh btw, this program is just a placebo, so it doesn't acctually do anything, buy the real thing if you want real results, thanks for DLing this and wasting space on your current drive". I have no idea how to get Fdisk working <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Members
    Could you remove the other hard drive and set this one to be the master/only drive, then use one of those programs to find it? Or does it have to be formatted before that could work?
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  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    edited August 2004
    Probably not, but I shall see... One sec...

    [edit] Update: Can't boot, making boot disk... If someone could link me to a lunix install with Fdisk it would be really great...
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  • AmbassadorAmbassador Join Date: 2003-02-24 Member: 13942Members
    Hit it with a wrench...
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  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    *hits Ambassador with wrench*

    Now what?
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  • TalesinTalesin Our own little well of hate Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
    Well, it was listed on the DL page that the demo makes no changes. Buying a copy is a good investment, given how easy it makes management of hard drives.

    Again. It definitely sounds like the primary drive is set to Single. Open the machine and pull the drive, check the jumpers.

    FDisk can see it, it just has a non-newbie-friendly interface. You have to actually tell it which drive to use... either in the program (on newer versions) or as a command-line switch on the older ones.


    A Linux install, you can usually grab a 'minimalist' installer in about 50MB or so. Alternately you can download a full distro (I recommend Redhat for newbies, three CDs) and start the install, get to the point where it actually formats, and then quit. So nothing's installed, it just gets the new drive formatted and ready to go.
    Also, if you do decide to go with RH, it makes setting up a dual-boot machine relatively painless, and will expose you to a new operating system.
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  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    edited August 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-Talesin+Aug 27 2004, 02:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Aug 27 2004, 02:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, it was listed on the DL page that the demo makes no changes. Buying a copy is a good investment, given how easy it makes management of hard drives.

    Again. It definitely sounds like the primary drive is set to Single. Open the machine and pull the drive, check the jumpers.

    FDisk can see it, it just has a non-newbie-friendly interface. You have to actually tell it which drive to use... either in the program (on newer versions) or as a command-line switch on the older ones.


    A Linux install, you can usually grab a 'minimalist' installer in about 50MB or so. Alternately you can download a full distro (I recommend Redhat for newbies, three CDs) and start the install, get to the point where it actually formats, and then quit. So nothing's installed, it just gets the new drive formatted and ready to go.
    Also, if you do decide to go with RH, it makes setting up a dual-boot machine relatively painless, and will expose you to a new operating system. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Talesin, I KNOW what it sounds like, but I GUARENTEE you that it isn't a problem with the jumpers. I have been to the website for my original drive gotten documentation for thier jumper settings, and tryed both cable select and master settings (which it is currently set to) and my other drive is DEFINATELY set to slave, as the slave setting is no jumpers at all, and that is kind of hard to mess up.

    When I load Fdisk.exe via windows I get a browse folders screen, and it doesn't list my new drive in any of those folders, I'm positive of that.

    I don't particulary plan on installing lunix (just because I need Windows XP, and I see no particular reason to run two OSs at the moment), but if you can point out some benifits I'm not particularly against trying it. My biggest issue is that my current drive is compleatly packed full, so I need this new drive for storage space. If I set up the new drive as master and boot will I able to boot from CD? The last time I tryed it it specificly asked me for an A: drive boot disk.

    [edit] also, doesn't lunix format to FAT32, b/c I really would rather have NFTS as my file system, expecially for a 160 gig drive...
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  • TalesinTalesin Our own little well of hate Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
    No, Linux uses ext2, ext3, or ReiserFS as its file system. Also, the version of fdisk Linux comes with can format to NTFS. Also, Linux can read (but not yet write to) NTFS safely.


    Also, using a single drive partition for 160GB of space is stupid. NTFS is more resistant to fragmentation (resistant does not mean immune), but LOADS slower than anything else, given its required overhead. I prefer keeping most of my games on FAT32 drive partitions, as they're much faster when kept down to around 40GB or so apiece. Also, defragmenting an NTFS partition takes a LOT longer than a FAT32.

    Using a single 160GB partition is stupid, as the file allocation block size is huge... each time you have a 1KB file, it still uses up either 16KB, 32KB, or 64KB of space, depending upon how large you go.


    Really? That's the first drive I've seen that goes that way... usually no-jumper sets a drive as Single or Master, and adding a jumper sets it to Slave (when a no-jumper state exists at all).
    I would still double-check your existing drive.

    Also, read the documentation for fdisk. It'll explain how to do things up right, when dealing with a second hard drive.
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  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    edited August 2004
    <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I feel stupid, my current HD is running a single partition of 120 gigs of FAT32. Bleh, seems like I'm gonna need to buy PartitionMagic to be as 1337 as Talesin. Anyways, my current version of Fdisk has no documentation installed with it, and the window's manual is no help as it doesn't even mention Fdisk, lets see if google = FTW as ussual.

    I think I'm gonna format to NSTF anyways if I ever get it working as I plan on using the drive almost exlusively for storage, since I have another 30 gig for games on my master drive as soon transfer over my backup files... I figure if I ever need to change it I can buy PM anyways.

    [edit] Update: got Fdisk acctually opening properly, unfortunately it does this:

    Update 2: Google has yet to find me a working version of Fdisk to date...
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  • BirdyBirdy Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16825Members, Constellation
    edited August 2004
    Ermm... Bootdisk > fdisk
    Opening from windows won't work.

    <a href='http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm</a>

    Check there for some bootdisk images.
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  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    Final Update: I got it working after much searching and failing, turns out windows XP has a fairly powerfull format and partion tool included with it buried somewhere in the device manager. After eventually finding it, and using some of the new knowlage I picked up via random google searching, I was able to create 3 NTFS partitions ~ 50 gig each, currently titles "storage, downloads, and miscellaneous". I tryed to get an FAT32 one for games, but windows format tool doens't allow you to differ your drive types from the primary file storage format, so no games specific partitions on that HD for me. Oh well, I still have 120 gigs for that on my other drive.

    The bootdisk at bootdisk.com are great for booting up with a lower version of windows or in DOS, but they don't come with newer versions of Fdisk, and thus are unable to properly format and partition new HDD's. When I booted in DOS, DOS couldn't see the new drive any better than windows could because the new drive was simply unallocated space and the latest DOS version of Fdisk has a maximum partition size of 2 gigs of FAT storage. Suffice to say, I'm not to intrueged with the prospect of 80 partitions of windows unusable file storage <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    Thanks for trying to help everyone (read Talesin)
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