Ns_msiege
iG0r
Join Date: 2004-06-28 Member: 29593Members
Join Date: 2004-06-28 Member: 29593Members
new version (rc3) is done (-:
ns_msiege-rc3 -> download: <a href='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_msiege-rc3.zip' target='_blank'>http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_msiege-rc3.zip</a>
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ns_msiege-rc3 -> download: <a href='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_msiege-rc3.zip' target='_blank'>http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_msiege-rc3.zip</a>
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Comments
This map is probably the most unbalanced, poorly designed maps since ns_ass. Let's take a look at the layout.
<img src='http://esuna.thezazi.net/misc/ns_crapmap.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Ok, so we have 17 res nodes to the alien side of the door and 7 res nodes to the marine side.... Oookay, i mean, you could have at least tried to even them out. Also, bear in mind the average ns_ map has between 8-10 res nodes throughout the entire map, your map has a total of 24.
I guess you'll try to justify having such a ridiculous amount of res nodes so "everyone can go Onos or do what they want with their res," well, you're wrong. Nobody can go Onos, nor Fade, nor Skulk, nor Lerk. This is because the map is so overwhelmingly big and poorly made, not a single alien has a chance against the marines.
As you can see from the layout, the entire map consists of extremely long, straight corridors, the marines won't have a problem taking down even an Onos with LMG fire in these corridors. Congratulations, for a funmap, you've just destroyed any description of fun that the alien team could have.
Now when you get into marine start, it's another epic-sized room, and the CC is up on the top floor, overlooking the main entrances. Right, so if an alien lifeform does manage to get past the ridiculous corridor layout, they will find themselves cut down before they can even get near a marine. Fantastic design there.
Now away from the entire lack of gameplay this map has, let's get down to construction.
The map, as far as i can see, uses about 5 textures. The walls and ceiling, for every single room, are textured with either wetwall1 or wetwall1-big, that horrible brown texture. The hives have no trace of infestation and you can scarecly tell they're hives at all. Infact, the only way i knew that the room i was in was a hive was the fact that they're all <b>identical</b>. The hives are straight copy and pastes of one poorly built room, you can tell this because the door seperating the hive rooms (Yes, they're all right next to each other) has the same error on each room. Good work there.
The lighting in this map is, well, forgettable. It seems apparent the entire thing is lit by light entities and there is evidently no effort put into it to make the lighting look good at all. The lighting is not lighting, it's purely there because without it the rooms would be pitch black, which is not entirely a bad thing, since then you wouldn't have to look at the same texture adorning each and every wall.
The architecture. Well, i think using "architecture" is a pretty bad idea. Hollowed shapes is more a better way of describing it. Each room is extremely bland, there is no detail work at all, and pretty much the only variation between each room is a slightly different shape of the room. Take a look at the layout i posted, now imagine every room being the same height and having the same textures, then you can imagine the entire map. The lack of any "eye candy" or "special locations" really isn't much hinderance on this map as there is only one path through the whole map, you're either going towards marine start or towards the hives, but surely more than 2 minutes could have been spent per room making it not look so dire.
One thing i can credit the map for is it's r_speeds. It barely peaks at 3-400 w_polys, which is way below acceptable standards, but then again, due to the fact there is absolutely no interesting architecture whatosever, this is not entirely surprising.
Anyway, this map is entirely poorly built, poorly textured, poorly lit and was constructed with no thought given to gameplay.
And iG0r, i recommend you read the forum FAQ for tutorials and check out sites like <a href='http://www.snarkpit.com/' target='_blank'>snarkpit.com</a> so you can learn how to map to a higher standard. Now you know how to compile, let's see you make something worth the bandwidth to download.
Uh...yeah...
Fun.. you call that fun? D:
so aliens got 15 resnodes, rines always spamm a lot of turrets behind the maindoor... so aliens cant rush as onos verry easy. this map is designed for 12-32 players.
msiege is a fun-map not a really high quality map <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
so aliens got 15 resnodes, rines always spamm a lot of turrets behind the maindoor... so aliens cant rush as onos verry easy. this map is designed for 12-32 players.
msiege is a fun-map not a really high quality map <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just because it's a siege map, doesn't mean it doesn't deserve the same attention when mapping as any "high quality map." You shouldn't be so happy about staying mediocre, don't you aspire to becoming any better at mapping?
Also maybe this is this guy's first map or something and ya pound it into the ground?
To me personally I like these kinds of maps.I don't think it should be the way the map is made to win a game.Maybe the map was intended to be this way.to promote better strategies n tactics among both teams.
I think who cares if you say this map is bad,I liked it and it shouldn't matter how a map is made or something but it should matter on the skill and what it takes to win on a map like this.
Also again who cares what bad thing anyone says about this map or any other map that they deem is aweful,if both teams have a fair shot/and are evenly matched not even on resnodes but skill and both teams win at different times what's the problem?
Also Esuna may I suggest ya think about what ya say before bashing some map into the ground?do you aspire on becoming alittle "nicer" and not so critical of any future map by anyone.
One last thing I'd like to see is Esuna make this map better,can he? lol
Also maybe this is this guy's first map or something and ya pound it into the ground? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You see me as "overcritical," i prefer to think of myself as honest. Also, check his sig, there's download links for 3 maps, this leads me to think that it's his third and not first map.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To me personally I like these kinds of maps.I don't think it should be the way the map is made to win a game.Maybe the map was intended to be this way.to promote better strategies n tactics among both teams.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, gameplay is more important than looks, but then again, if looks weren't so important to mapping, every game would still look like Wolfenstein 3D.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think who cares if you say this map is bad,I liked it and it shouldn't matter how a map is made or something but it should matter on the skill and what it takes to win on a map like this.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How a map is made has surprising bearing. If it's made badly, the players can suffer from fps drops, lag or in worst cases, client crashes. And once again, regarding gameplay or skill, refer to my last comment, and that long post i wrote above where i do talk about game balance in the map.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also again who cares what bad thing anyone says about this map or any other map that they deem is aweful,if both teams have a fair shot/and are evenly matched not even on resnodes but skill and both teams win at different times what's the problem?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Evidently you didn't read that long post i wrote afterall. If you did, you would notice that it is entirely unbalanced. For instance, the aliens have 16 (just realised i can't count) nodes while the marines have just 7, and the entire map is constructed using long as hell corridors, a major disavantage to the alien team.
but this map, it's just horrible. in every aspect.
Add some cover for aliens, add a few more pathways to the center room... I myself am thinking of taking a break from ns_incubus and making a siege-themed map... the only difference is that all the action is DESIGNED to take place in the middle... not the siege room <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Your opinion is now null and void <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As for the map, practice, practice, practice. Read tuts, play good and bad maps and see what makes the maps good/bad, then adjust your own mapping to compensate.
best review ever.
every first or 2nd or 3rd map of a mapper is crap. And every1 is so proud of his first map so he publishes it and gets flamed down.
Igor, keep up making maps, but try to spend about a 24 h mapping time on one room and think what might look good, try to imitate the detailed look of those great official maps in ns. And remember, esuna just looked inside this thread to see a beginner map to flame down.
Last thing: post less screenshots, and start hl with -dev, then write r_speeds 1 in console - that way the real performance of the map will be displayed on the screens
However I agree with esuna on map layout and the imbalanced res nodes (not with the comment he made about the average ns_map having 8-10 res nodes, this quite patently, is <b>not</b> the average ns_map). I don't see any problem with the hives being next to eachother but you need to have them roughly balanced otherwise one team will win every time. It's OK making it harder for one team but not totally unbalanced.
There are areas of the map that look promising (the two-tiered features, the room with the central pillar) but these need to be equalled by better corridor structure. Also better lighting can work in the aliens favour to help re-establish a sense of equality.
- Set the gamma a bit higher it is a little dark.
- I aint seen so many doors on a map since 1.04, im not bothered about them been there but the fact that they stay open for only two seconds and if they close on you die is very annoying.
- Rampant trigger hurt entities, more people seem to get killed by doors/lifts etc than to the opposite team.
- You need to make it easier for aliens to get out of their half of the map and make it easier for marines to get into the aliens, I think the lift should go its too easy to have a stand off. I think the alien halls are too small.
- Im not borthered about the graphics as its a fun map but the texturing is better than siege007.
- no window in the siege room, add one please (:
- A extra rt each side would be nice.
LoL, i think that should be a qualitative factor in determing what maps are bad.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> Did you use 13 textures tu make map? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> (huoh)
It would look better if you used more textures.... <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> Did you use 13 textures tu make map? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> (huoh)
It would look better if you used more textures.... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah.. You stole my words.
How cliche... -_- every critic, kind or mean says this.