I'm not prujudiced against homosexuals; sure, the more eccentric ones freak me out a bit (a lot) but sometimes when you never even realize the person you're talking to is **** and he's (or she's) a good person you realize that homophobia is another form of racism.
I never, ever wish for a man who posts pictures of himself masturbating to educate my children. I feel the feelings of revulsion that most of you would feel, if say, you discovered that the teacher of your child had a penchant for mating with various household pets. If at this point you have deluded yourself into thinking I'm equating what he's doing with beastiality, then you are flat out wrong. Please do not reply to that effect and humiliate yourself.
I cannot separate a man from who he is privately to who he is professionally. The standards a man hold when he is not under the scrutiny of the world is the true test of character. Any man wont steal in front of a police officer - but a real test of honesty is turning in that wallet you found with $3k inside it, when no one else was around.
And when people in positions of power violate the trust of those they are closest too - why should that not be a warning to the electorate/ parents and teachers association. If a man has so little regard for his word, for the trust of his wife that he sleeps with an intern at work, then why should you trust him to run the country? He holds himself, his colleagues and his family in callous contempt - this is a sign of a vital character flaw, and a man not to be trusted.
<!--QuoteBegin-Marine01+Sep 1 2004, 03:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marine01 @ Sep 1 2004, 03:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I never, ever wish for a man who posts pictures of himself masturbating to educate my children. I feel the feelings of revulsion that most of you would feel, if say, you discovered that the teacher of your child had a penchant for mating with various household pets. If at this point you have deluded yourself into thinking I'm equating what he's doing with beastiality, then you are flat out wrong. Please do not reply to that effect and humiliate yourself.
I cannot separate a man from who he is privately to who he is professionally. The standards a man hold when he is not under the scrutiny of the world is the true test of character. Any man wont steal in front of a police officer - but a real test of honesty is turning in that wallet you found with $3k inside it, when no one else was around.
And when people in positions of power violate the trust of those they are closest too - why should that not be a warning to the electorate/ parents and teachers association. If a man has so little regard for his word, for the trust of his wife that he sleeps with an intern at work, then why should you trust him to run the country? He holds himself, his colleagues and his family in callous contempt - this is a sign of a vital character flaw, and a man not to be trusted. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well said.
Yo Marine, there is nothing in Coris' post that said anything about the guy having a vital character flaw because he uploaded personal porno pics to a porn community.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I cannot separate a man from who he is privately to who he is professionally. The standards a man hold when he is not under the scrutiny of the world is the true test of character. Any man wont steal in front of a police officer - but a real test of honesty is turning in that wallet you found with $3k inside it, when no one else was around. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This post has nothing to do with this situation, not even metaphorically or allegorically. What is wrong with posting pics of your genitals on a porno (adult friend type??) community? You're acting like somehow he's breaking everyone's trust by having a personal life that's sexually open/active. You have to seperate personal and professional, because there is a difference. People are different when they're not on the job. I'm sure this teacher isn't openly **** at his professional position, and was trying to keep it under wraps while still trying trying to keep an active sex life. I give the man props for trying.
My response to Coris' friends is really simple:
<b>get over it.</b> He's a teacher, you need to respect him anyways. This isn't your teacher's problem; this is <i><b>your</b></i> problem. You are the people who acted immaturely because you found something you didn't like about a teacher that you could use to try and usurp his authority. It's a decision that you made to not respect him, and that puts you in the wrong.
He's not out there banging students, he's not out there flaunting his orientation, so what is the problem?
<!--QuoteBegin-illuminex+Sep 2 2004, 01:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (illuminex @ Sep 2 2004, 01:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yo Marine, there is nothing in Coris' post that said anything about the guy having a vital character flaw because he uploaded personal porno pics to a porn community.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I cannot separate a man from who he is privately to who he is professionally. The standards a man hold when he is not under the scrutiny of the world is the true test of character. Any man wont steal in front of a police officer - but a real test of honesty is turning in that wallet you found with $3k inside it, when no one else was around. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This post has nothing to do with this situation, not even metaphorically or allegorically. What is wrong with posting pics of your genitals on a porno (adult friend type??) community? You're acting like somehow he's breaking everyone's trust by having a personal life that's sexually open/active. You have to seperate personal and professional, because there is a difference. People are different when they're not on the job. I'm sure this teacher isn't openly **** at his professional position, and was trying to keep it under wraps while still trying trying to keep an active sex life. I give the man props for trying.
My response to Coris' friends is really simple:
<b>get over it.</b> He's a teacher, you need to respect him anyways. This isn't your teacher's problem; this is <i><b>your</b></i> problem. You are the people who acted immaturely because you found something you didn't like about a teacher that you could use to try and usurp his authority. It's a decision that you made to not respect him, and that puts you in the wrong.
He's not out there banging students, he's not out there flaunting his orientation, so what is the problem? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well there is a little bit that I left out - the bit about me considering any sexual activity outside of marriage to be a character flaw, but I dont think you guys are gonna agree with me on that one <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Dont think I'm taking the moral high ground here. I refuse any position of leadership, I refuse to enter normal relationships, never initiate friendships and laugh when people commend my supposed moral clarity. And here's why - I struggle, and fail miserably, with great consistancy, on the filth that is pornography. Its the one thing I regret about getting the internet. I'm no better than this guy, perhaps worse, in that I know exactly what I should do, and do the exact opposite.
And here is what I have learnt from my own evil. Perhaps I am unique in my depravity, but I'm going to assume it works this way for everyone. My first experiences were with accidental stumblings upon various sites. Initial revulsion eventually turned, after several such accidents, to curiosity and sexual excitement. The first concious decision to visit a site involved basic skin - but very quickly upgraded to more the more hardcore. But like any addiction, the thrill pales, and you start looking for variety to maintain the feeling. I wont inflict on you the details of where it went from there - but it graduate to unspeakable interests.
About a year after I began my moral decay, I read a study that pretty much confirmed that few people just start out with deviant sexual desires - they start out with soft core porn, then move up the chain, with pedophelia being the last level. The researchers feared that once having exhausted all possible excitement available via web based material, they would start looking for physical manifestations.... etc....
This kind of thing festers, it grows, and before you know it you are considering things that would have previously had you hurling your lunch into the gutter. I dont not trust myself as far as I can pull myself up by my own boot straps (which is zero), and I do not trust this man, especially with the minds children.
Bottom line is this - kids dont differentiate between professions and personal lives. "But if thats wrong, then why does Mrs X from school do it?" You cant just say "Oh she's a professional that's different" - its not and they know it. A lot of my primary school teachers were (and Im sure they never realised it) very influential in my subscribing to the left wing, anti-american side of political belief earlier in life. Just comments they made offhand to other teachers shaped my beliefs and opininons. Kids are impressionable, I wouldnt want my kids to be influenced by a man under what I consider a fatal and critical flaw of character.
Well Marine, here's hoping you don't have your kids go to a public school, because the average person is becoming more and more open about this kind of stuff. Also, having grown up in a hardcore Christian family, I know all about that worldview, and you seem to be carrying that same ideal, or something similar to it.
I've experienced something similar to what you talked about, but as one grows older and learns to curb and control those powerful teenage feelings, those "negative effects" of porn die away quite quickly. I'm assuming you've never been to one of these type of sites before. I'm assuming it's this type of site, Coris please correct me if I am wrong. These type of sites are like online dating sites, with the exception that they promote finding and meeting people for sex. Most people post pics of themselves, and the most active on the site tend to have nude pictures of themselves. With males, most pics are torso or genital.
Kids should be taught to seperate personal and professional. Who a man is at work is never the way a man is at home. It's a simple fact. If a man is a good teacher who is dedicated to the kids in his classroom, but at home is an active homosexual man, what does it matter? I'd rather have him teaching my children than some of the terrible teachers I've had in my years of schooling.
Bottom line: initial respect for an adult is due to the fact that their nastier sides are well hidden through years of practice. When we find an adult who has a nasty side, we make an exception to the rule, not vice versa. Thus, an "adult" is still someone who has never made a mistake, never done anything taboo.
So we respect people because they are good at lying?
Talk abotu a character flaw.
I'd be more open to respecting someone like Marine01, who makes efforts to change the nastyer sides of his character, but all the while is open about the things he does wrong, in an effort to change them.
I'd rather have a man that changes his faults, than one who lies about them as a teacher.
<!--QuoteBegin-Legionnaired+Sep 1 2004, 10:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Sep 1 2004, 10:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So we respect people because they are good at lying?
If they can do their job, and not have a negative impact on the children I don't see what the big deal is. A great example is that jerk off governer who resigned "because of the affair he had" BS. He used that as a shroud to get out of the economic sodomy he was performing on his state.
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Sep 1 2004, 10:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Sep 1 2004, 10:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ...A great example is that jerk off governer who resigned "because of the affair he had" BS. He used that as a shroud to get out of the economic sodomy he was performing on his state. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Amen Cwag.
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Aug 31 2004, 03:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Aug 31 2004, 03:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Our math teacher apparently got *3* high school seniors pregnant. These girls also aced all his classes. I said something about it and I failed 2 classes with him, and my brother also failed 1. (Only had him once) Irony? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What did that teach you, CWAG? Shoud've just climbed in the bed and been a good boy.
As for the matter at hand: Coris ought to do exactly nothing. It's not his business what his teacher does on his spare time. It's not illegal, so there is no reason to confront him about it.
What grade level students discovered these photos?
2 cookies to anyone who figures out where I'm going with this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry sir, I can't take that statuatory cookie.
And unless he in suggested you look at those pictures of him naked, or somehow imposed them on you, he did nothing wrong. Its his own business what he does with his woody and who he shows it to, as long as he's a professional inside the classroom and towards you. If you or your friends can't be that mature, thats your problem honestly and not his.
@CWAG: Although that sort of thing tends to end a teaching courier quickly enough, beware of a few things : 1. Not all of them, or any, have necessarily slept with him. Theres lots of incentive to lie and/or blackmail your way through that, and the only discouragement being known as the teachers little slut <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
2. If indeed they did however have consentual intercourse with him, theres two possible reasons. The first is the simple one, that he was actually a very charming and handsome guy - in which case you can bet your butt they would listen to what he explains, and try to not fail his class.
3. The other option is that they're doing it for the more dubious reason of getting an easy grade - in which case the veiled or remote threat of telling authoritys (unless its legal in your state and age), would be enough for the teacher to pre-emptively keep that girl happy, and grades being the easiest way to do it.
In short, seriously : <b>How are you going to sleep with a teacher and get bad grades?</b> It'd take a conscious effort to pull off.
<!--QuoteBegin-Marine01+Sep 1 2004, 08:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marine01 @ Sep 1 2004, 08:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And here is what I have learnt from my own evil. Perhaps I am unique in my depravity, but I'm going to assume it works this way for everyone. My first experiences were with accidental stumblings upon various sites. Initial revulsion eventually turned, after several such accidents, to curiosity and sexual excitement. The first concious decision to visit a site involved basic skin - but very quickly upgraded to more the more hardcore. But like any addiction, the thrill pales, and you start looking for variety to maintain the feeling. I wont inflict on you the details of where it went from there - but it graduate to unspeakable interests.
About a year after I began my moral decay, I read a study that pretty much confirmed that few people just start out with deviant sexual desires - they start out with soft core porn, then move up the chain, with pedophelia being the last level. The researchers feared that once having exhausted all possible excitement available via web based material, they would start looking for physical manifestations.... etc....
This kind of thing festers, it grows, and before you know it you are considering things that would have previously had you hurling your lunch into the gutter. I dont not trust myself as far as I can pull myself up by my own boot straps (which is zero), and I do not trust this man, especially with the minds children.
Bottom line is this - kids dont differentiate between professions and personal lives. "But if thats wrong, then why does Mrs X from school do it?" You cant just say "Oh she's a professional that's different" - its not and they know it. A lot of my primary school teachers were (and Im sure they never realised it) very influential in my subscribing to the left wing, anti-american side of political belief earlier in life. Just comments they made offhand to other teachers shaped my beliefs and opininons. Kids are impressionable, I wouldnt want my kids to be influenced by a man under what I consider a fatal and critical flaw of character. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> (Ok ok I'll bite and assume he's not just an Internet funnyguy)
Maybe I'm just crazy in that way, but I was raised in the polar opposite way. Intercourse was explained to me as a perfectly normal thing, and not an evil of any kind - the same rules as you use for the rest of your life apply there and work just fine. Just don't hurt anyone (be that physically [rape, STD], emotionally or whatever ).
My first discovery of porn was going through a few magazines my (former) stepfather brought along - seeing as how he normally didn't show alot of interest in those things, I can only assume he was trying to educate me without being too intrusive. It is after all a scary and exciting topic, and upon first exploring it most people, including me have the urge to hide away and keep it to ourselves <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The first few months, I did what everyone did. Starting with the softcore found everywhere, going through everything I could get my hands on - until the "too much information" level is reached, and curiosity saturated. Over time that changed into a specific taste - symbolisms and artistic shapes, moods in the pictures, the way people seemed to be enjoying themselves - that I preferred over other porn. Its still phantasizing, and as such never really stale or static - but it became more of an artistic reminder of what sex is, than a novelty pleasure. And security in your sexuality is a good thing - extreme excitement when its either new or forbidden might be interesting, but is more stressful than good for you both physically and character wise. Repression is just not a great thing.
Especially since for you in these years, probably the previous ones and the ones to come, emotional turmoil will already be available in abundance from all sorts of relationships, wether they ever become formal or not. You'll need to keep your head level and above the water, and right now you're honestly on the best route to drowning.
I'm not saying you "Have to think my way", but I'm saying you're having the thoughts that most everyone has. And as much as you want them to, <b>thoughts can never be unthought</b>. Every little thing you consider for the slightest instant, even if its just to not consider it, its there and its part of you as much as the parts that fit with your ideology. Embracing, understanding these thoughts and ultimately yourself is for your benefit, and that of whichever faith you chose to hold.
As far as christianity goes, and whichever flavor of it you're trying to follow, remember that religions were intended to be guiding lights for people - not molding presses to fit every individual into. You will never be able to follow any long-standing religions specifics of the day to the dot, you will only be able to comprehend it and act according to your understanding.
If I can be as rude as to butt in on a religious text I don't know nearly as much about as you probably do, I'd like to point to the old testament : God intended to create <i>his likenesses</i> in man, not followers. And as such they must much like him, make their own decisions. Talk about a curse and a blessing if there ever was one <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Nevertheless, God also gives guidelines that can factor into our decision making.
Sexual immorality is discussed not only as another sin that a man does to other people, but something that is actually self-destructive if not done in the context of a loving, committed relationship. From EVERYTHING I've seen from my friends and aquaintances at school who've gotten involved with sex, it does hurt people who aren't fully committed to each other. Even if they are, the maturity level of people who are fully committed to another person without a second thought as to the possible long term needs and sacrifical nature of that relationship is not very good, and the relationship is going to crumble anyway. Naturally, those that indulged in sex are going to feel the effects of a break-up much more than those who don't.
The Bible had it right, sex is best left for a committed, mature, loving relationship, called a marriage.
That said, this man is, regardless of if he 'hides his habits' well, he still is disrespecting himself in taking pornographic shots of himself naked, and posting them on the world-wide-goddamn-web. It's sick, it's wrong, and it may not be illegal, but is sure as hell is debaucherous.
What grade level students discovered these photos?
2 cookies to anyone who figures out where I'm going with this. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry sir, I can't take that statuatory cookie.
And unless he in suggested you look at those pictures of him naked, or somehow imposed them on you, he did nothing wrong. Its his own business what he does with his woody and who he shows it to, as long as he's a professional inside the classroom and towards you. If you or your friends can't be that mature, thats your problem honestly and not his.
@CWAG: Although that sort of thing tends to end a teaching courier quickly enough, beware of a few things : 1. Not all of them, or any, have necessarily slept with him. Theres lots of incentive to lie and/or blackmail your way through that, and the only discouragement being known as the teachers little slut <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
2. If indeed they did however have consentual intercourse with him, theres two possible reasons. The first is the simple one, that he was actually a very charming and handsome guy - in which case you can bet your butt they would listen to what he explains, and try to not fail his class.
3. The other option is that they're doing it for the more dubious reason of getting an easy grade - in which case the veiled or remote threat of telling authoritys (unless its legal in your state and age), would be enough for the teacher to pre-emptively keep that girl happy, and grades being the easiest way to do it.
In short, seriously : <b>How are you going to sleep with a teacher and get bad grades?</b> It'd take a conscious effort to pull off. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats the thing, the rumors that spread after they did weren't negative. They were "You can easily pass his class...if you're a girl." Both of our high-school's counselors know about the goings on, as does the assistant prinipal. They can't fire him because when he was hired he was given tenure. (Meaning he can't be fired for X years)
They should get rid of tenure. Not only this, they should rip the word "tenure" from every english dictionary known to man and burn it. It's the stupidest concept I've ever heard. "Stay with us 10 years and you can't be fired!"
The teacher says to himself, "Can't be fired eh? Well heck, that means I can do just about anything I want!"
It's like diplomatic immunity for a job. STUPID! (By the way, women have been raped and stores have had 1000s of dollars worth of merchandise stolen from them because of diplomatic immunity.)
Legion, you're making a huge mistake right now. A real big one. You are pinning your morality onto someone else who doesn't follow it. That is a big "no no," even according to your book of truth.
He is not disrespecting himself, unless he feels he is. Your moral laws are not applicable to him. Your morality is not applicable to me. It isn't sick either.
Your post really gets me frustrated with Christianity. I have so much repsect for a Christian that can accept people where they are in a loving manner, because that is what your religion is all about. You can't expect people to see the light when you call them "sick" and tell them that they're "disrespecting" themselves. It took my dad so long to learn that before he finally applied those more laid back teachings in the bible to his actual beliefs. I suggest you think about what you're doing here, before you post a reply.
Thanks for being a negative stereotype for your belief system, a belief system that I was explaining in a positive light to my best friend last night. I hold a certain amount of respect for Christians that are real and understand that it isn't their job to judge people in this kind of situation.
Stop judging people like you are living in an age of the old covenant; think New Testament covenant and I think you'll really get what I'm saying here.
<!--QuoteBegin-illuminex+Sep 2 2004, 11:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (illuminex @ Sep 2 2004, 11:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Legion, you're making a huge mistake right now. A real big one. You are pinning your morality onto someone else who doesn't follow it. That is a big "no no," even according to your book of truth.
He is not disrespecting himself, unless he feels he is. Your moral laws are not applicable to him. Your morality is not applicable to me. It isn't sick either.
Your post really gets me frustrated with Christianity. I have so much repsect for a Christian that can accept people where they are in a loving manner, because that is what your religion is all about. You can't expect people to see the light when you call them "sick" and tell them that they're "disrespecting" themselves. It took my dad so long to learn that before he finally applied those more laid back teachings in the bible to his actual beliefs. I suggest you think about what you're doing here, before you post a reply.
Thanks for being a negative stereotype for your belief system, a belief system that I was explaining in a positive light to my best friend last night. I hold a certain amount of respect for Christians that are real and understand that it isn't their job to judge people in this kind of situation.
Stop judging people like you are living in an age of the old covenant; think New Testament covenant and I think you'll really get what I'm saying here. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, our book of truth does not condem pinning our morality on someone else (assuming our morality is in line with Gods.)
Yes, the Bible says take out the plank in your own eye before looking at the speck in your neighbors - but at the same time we are supposed to fight evil in all it's forms. This is an obvioius form, and we are calling it evil.
Feelings are not the end all in life. Just because something feels good doesnt make it good, and just because it doesn't feel bad, doesn't mean it is.
Acceptance and being loving has 0 to do with pointing out sin. In fact, pointing out sin so that one can repent of it is showing love much more than ignoring it.
As for the covenant, I suggest you study it before trying to tell us what it is. The covenant is 1 covenant through the ages. It has been extended from Abraham to the Jews, and now to the Gentiles. I take part in that covenant - and no where does that covenanats stance on sin change. So no, I don't get what you are saying. If being "new covenant" means "morality is relative" then I think you are the one who needs to read up on it again.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Acceptance and being loving has 0 to do with pointing out sin.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would have thought it would have everything to do with it. Are you pointing out this mans 'sin' for your benefit, or his?
And how is the bible YOUR book of truth? Surely it's everyones, unless you believe that you are special.
<!--QuoteBegin-illuminex+Sep 3 2004, 04:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (illuminex @ Sep 3 2004, 04:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Legion, you're making a huge mistake right now. A real big one. You are pinning your morality onto someone else who doesn't follow it. That is a big "no no," even according to your book of truth.
He is not disrespecting himself, unless he feels he is. Your moral laws are not applicable to him. Your morality is not applicable to me. It isn't sick either.
Your post really gets me frustrated with Christianity. I have so much repsect for a Christian that can accept people where they are in a loving manner, because that is what your religion is all about. You can't expect people to see the light when you call them "sick" and tell them that they're "disrespecting" themselves. It took my dad so long to learn that before he finally applied those more laid back teachings in the bible to his actual beliefs. I suggest you think about what you're doing here, before you post a reply.
Thanks for being a negative stereotype for your belief system, a belief system that I was explaining in a positive light to my best friend last night. I hold a certain amount of respect for Christians that are real and understand that it isn't their job to judge people in this kind of situation.
Stop judging people like you are living in an age of the old covenant; think New Testament covenant and I think you'll really get what I'm saying here. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Romans 1:
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. 24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen. 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. <!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
New Testament illuminex - the first part makes incredibly clear that simply because someone doesnt subscribe to your specific belief they are not excused by God. Both passages were written by Paul, the man responsible for the widespread belief that Christians are called to be tolerant. And they are - read the second passage.
1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance? 5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God "will give to each person according to what he has done."[1] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism. 12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares. <!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
The second part then takes a stick to any Christians who, reading this, delude themselves into thinking they are better than any of these people, and can judge them.
I dont judge this man - but I think he is doing something evil, that is judging the action, not the man. God loves that man, but he hates what he's doing. That does not make him evil, but it does give me every right to insist my child is not educated in his class. Christians may not give lip to their objection to what he is doing, but if they are 100% consistent, they will believe it to be absolutely wrong.
Pepe was right - you can point out evil and still be loving and accepting. I have only revealed my sickness to one other person - and even then not to the full extent. He knew what I was doing was absolutely wrong, completely depraved, yet he didnt reject me as a friend, he just said "You know that's wrong, you know you have to stop".
The Bible is specifically the Christians book of Truth. They are the only people who believe it to be truth - there are plenty of people who claim is has some truth in it, good moral rules etc, but Christians are the only people who believe it contains absolute truth. Dont get me wrong, we dont keep these books to overselves - it did not get to be the worlds most widely distributed book because we hoard em up in secret chambers in the church, but it is not everyones book of truth.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> (Okay yeah that was harsh, but right now humans are LOW in my eyes (Yes I am one unfortunately))
Wow, this thread is surprisingly civil and illuminating for its subject matter. Nice work.
I only have to wonder if we'd be having this discussion if the man posted to a heterosexual web site. All I can say is, being closeted is one of the worst things to force on anyone, though the suffering must be hard for a straight person to imagine or empathize with. So to anyone wishing to impose 'morality', please think of your goal as minimizing human suffering, not adherence to some strict principles that are completely out of your control and hurting no one.
Asking him to completely repress his life because it doesn't fit the status quo is infinitely worse then posting pictures that hurt no one (though really, pron is generally so banal and unimportant to even warrant a discussion of this length, let's talk about something interesting like politics instead).
I have some mixed feeling about this. I think its fine as long as he does not force his sexual preference on the other students. As long as he keeps it to himself and does not openly discuss it, it should be fine. On another hand, if I were a teacher, I would find it disturbing. Also, were I a parent, I don't know that I would want my kid in a class with a homosexual teacher who poses for pornographic websites.
Do you actually think homosexuality 'rubs off'? It is absolutely impossible to force a sexual identity (it ain't a preference, that's for sure) onto anyone. People don't switch over.
Would you not want a homosexual teacher that poses on websites, or any teacher that poses on websites?
i agree with your last statement flay. But I do this your sexuality is a preference. Theres no way you are born homesexual and not homsexual. The way you grew up shortly after birth decides IMO.
You are born girl boy, black white, not **** or straight.
Comments
I cannot separate a man from who he is privately to who he is professionally. The standards a man hold when he is not under the scrutiny of the world is the true test of character. Any man wont steal in front of a police officer - but a real test of honesty is turning in that wallet you found with $3k inside it, when no one else was around.
And when people in positions of power violate the trust of those they are closest too - why should that not be a warning to the electorate/ parents and teachers association. If a man has so little regard for his word, for the trust of his wife that he sleeps with an intern at work, then why should you trust him to run the country? He holds himself, his colleagues and his family in callous contempt - this is a sign of a vital character flaw, and a man not to be trusted.
I cannot separate a man from who he is privately to who he is professionally. The standards a man hold when he is not under the scrutiny of the world is the true test of character. Any man wont steal in front of a police officer - but a real test of honesty is turning in that wallet you found with $3k inside it, when no one else was around.
And when people in positions of power violate the trust of those they are closest too - why should that not be a warning to the electorate/ parents and teachers association. If a man has so little regard for his word, for the trust of his wife that he sleeps with an intern at work, then why should you trust him to run the country? He holds himself, his colleagues and his family in callous contempt - this is a sign of a vital character flaw, and a man not to be trusted. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well said.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I cannot separate a man from who he is privately to who he is professionally. The standards a man hold when he is not under the scrutiny of the world is the true test of character. Any man wont steal in front of a police officer - but a real test of honesty is turning in that wallet you found with $3k inside it, when no one else was around.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This post has nothing to do with this situation, not even metaphorically or allegorically. What is wrong with posting pics of your genitals on a porno (adult friend type??) community? You're acting like somehow he's breaking everyone's trust by having a personal life that's sexually open/active. You have to seperate personal and professional, because there is a difference. People are different when they're not on the job. I'm sure this teacher isn't openly **** at his professional position, and was trying to keep it under wraps while still trying trying to keep an active sex life. I give the man props for trying.
My response to Coris' friends is really simple:
<b>get over it.</b> He's a teacher, you need to respect him anyways. This isn't your teacher's problem; this is <i><b>your</b></i> problem. You are the people who acted immaturely because you found something you didn't like about a teacher that you could use to try and usurp his authority. It's a decision that you made to not respect him, and that puts you in the wrong.
He's not out there banging students, he's not out there flaunting his orientation, so what is the problem?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I cannot separate a man from who he is privately to who he is professionally. The standards a man hold when he is not under the scrutiny of the world is the true test of character. Any man wont steal in front of a police officer - but a real test of honesty is turning in that wallet you found with $3k inside it, when no one else was around.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This post has nothing to do with this situation, not even metaphorically or allegorically. What is wrong with posting pics of your genitals on a porno (adult friend type??) community? You're acting like somehow he's breaking everyone's trust by having a personal life that's sexually open/active. You have to seperate personal and professional, because there is a difference. People are different when they're not on the job. I'm sure this teacher isn't openly **** at his professional position, and was trying to keep it under wraps while still trying trying to keep an active sex life. I give the man props for trying.
My response to Coris' friends is really simple:
<b>get over it.</b> He's a teacher, you need to respect him anyways. This isn't your teacher's problem; this is <i><b>your</b></i> problem. You are the people who acted immaturely because you found something you didn't like about a teacher that you could use to try and usurp his authority. It's a decision that you made to not respect him, and that puts you in the wrong.
He's not out there banging students, he's not out there flaunting his orientation, so what is the problem? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well there is a little bit that I left out - the bit about me considering any sexual activity outside of marriage to be a character flaw, but I dont think you guys are gonna agree with me on that one <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Dont think I'm taking the moral high ground here. I refuse any position of leadership, I refuse to enter normal relationships, never initiate friendships and laugh when people commend my supposed moral clarity. And here's why - I struggle, and fail miserably, with great consistancy, on the filth that is pornography. Its the one thing I regret about getting the internet. I'm no better than this guy, perhaps worse, in that I know exactly what I should do, and do the exact opposite.
And here is what I have learnt from my own evil. Perhaps I am unique in my depravity, but I'm going to assume it works this way for everyone. My first experiences were with accidental stumblings upon various sites. Initial revulsion eventually turned, after several such accidents, to curiosity and sexual excitement. The first concious decision to visit a site involved basic skin - but very quickly upgraded to more the more hardcore. But like any addiction, the thrill pales, and you start looking for variety to maintain the feeling. I wont inflict on you the details of where it went from there - but it graduate to unspeakable interests.
About a year after I began my moral decay, I read a study that pretty much confirmed that few people just start out with deviant sexual desires - they start out with soft core porn, then move up the chain, with pedophelia being the last level. The researchers feared that once having exhausted all possible excitement available via web based material, they would start looking for physical manifestations.... etc....
This kind of thing festers, it grows, and before you know it you are considering things that would have previously had you hurling your lunch into the gutter. I dont not trust myself as far as I can pull myself up by my own boot straps (which is zero), and I do not trust this man, especially with the minds children.
Bottom line is this - kids dont differentiate between professions and personal lives. "But if thats wrong, then why does Mrs X from school do it?" You cant just say "Oh she's a professional that's different" - its not and they know it. A lot of my primary school teachers were (and Im sure they never realised it) very influential in my subscribing to the left wing, anti-american side of political belief earlier in life. Just comments they made offhand to other teachers shaped my beliefs and opininons. Kids are impressionable, I wouldnt want my kids to be influenced by a man under what I consider a fatal and critical flaw of character.
I've experienced something similar to what you talked about, but as one grows older and learns to curb and control those powerful teenage feelings, those "negative effects" of porn die away quite quickly. I'm assuming you've never been to one of these type of sites before. I'm assuming it's this type of site, Coris please correct me if I am wrong. These type of sites are like online dating sites, with the exception that they promote finding and meeting people for sex. Most people post pics of themselves, and the most active on the site tend to have nude pictures of themselves. With males, most pics are torso or genital.
Kids should be taught to seperate personal and professional. Who a man is at work is never the way a man is at home. It's a simple fact. If a man is a good teacher who is dedicated to the kids in his classroom, but at home is an active homosexual man, what does it matter? I'd rather have him teaching my children than some of the terrible teachers I've had in my years of schooling.
Talk abotu a character flaw.
I'd be more open to respecting someone like Marine01, who makes efforts to change the nastyer sides of his character, but all the while is open about the things he does wrong, in an effort to change them.
I'd rather have a man that changes his faults, than one who lies about them as a teacher.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
LMAO.
If they can do their job, and not have a negative impact on the children I don't see what the big deal is. A great example is that jerk off governer who resigned "because of the affair he had" BS. He used that as a shroud to get out of the economic sodomy he was performing on his state.
How would you feel if the teacher was female, and had pictures of her in Playboy when she was in college?
(Remember the Big 10 issue of Playboy? I knew some elementary ed girls that posed in it. They are teaching at a school as I type)
Amen Cwag.
What did that teach you, CWAG? Shoud've just climbed in the bed and been a good boy.
As for the matter at hand: Coris ought to do exactly nothing. It's not his business what his teacher does on his spare time. It's not illegal, so there is no reason to confront him about it.
But yeah... coris the real culprits are your parents, they need to keep you off the porno sites
Ignorance is definatley bliss in this situation
What grade level class is he teaching?
What grade level students discovered these photos?
2 cookies to anyone who figures out where I'm going with this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry sir, I can't take that statuatory cookie.
And unless he in suggested you look at those pictures of him naked, or somehow imposed them on you, he did nothing wrong. Its his own business what he does with his woody and who he shows it to, as long as he's a professional inside the classroom and towards you. If you or your friends can't be that mature, thats your problem honestly and not his.
@CWAG:
Although that sort of thing tends to end a teaching courier quickly enough, beware of a few things :
1. Not all of them, or any, have necessarily slept with him. Theres lots of incentive to lie and/or blackmail your way through that, and the only discouragement being known as the teachers little slut <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
2. If indeed they did however have consentual intercourse with him, theres two possible reasons. The first is the simple one, that he was actually a very charming and handsome guy - in which case you can bet your butt they would listen to what he explains, and try to not fail his class.
3. The other option is that they're doing it for the more dubious reason of getting an easy grade - in which case the veiled or remote threat of telling authoritys (unless its legal in your state and age), would be enough for the teacher to pre-emptively keep that girl happy, and grades being the easiest way to do it.
In short, seriously : <b>How are you going to sleep with a teacher and get bad grades?</b> It'd take a conscious effort to pull off.
And here is what I have learnt from my own evil. Perhaps I am unique in my depravity, but I'm going to assume it works this way for everyone. My first experiences were with accidental stumblings upon various sites. Initial revulsion eventually turned, after several such accidents, to curiosity and sexual excitement. The first concious decision to visit a site involved basic skin - but very quickly upgraded to more the more hardcore. But like any addiction, the thrill pales, and you start looking for variety to maintain the feeling. I wont inflict on you the details of where it went from there - but it graduate to unspeakable interests.
About a year after I began my moral decay, I read a study that pretty much confirmed that few people just start out with deviant sexual desires - they start out with soft core porn, then move up the chain, with pedophelia being the last level. The researchers feared that once having exhausted all possible excitement available via web based material, they would start looking for physical manifestations.... etc....
This kind of thing festers, it grows, and before you know it you are considering things that would have previously had you hurling your lunch into the gutter. I dont not trust myself as far as I can pull myself up by my own boot straps (which is zero), and I do not trust this man, especially with the minds children.
Bottom line is this - kids dont differentiate between professions and personal lives. "But if thats wrong, then why does Mrs X from school do it?" You cant just say "Oh she's a professional that's different" - its not and they know it. A lot of my primary school teachers were (and Im sure they never realised it) very influential in my subscribing to the left wing, anti-american side of political belief earlier in life. Just comments they made offhand to other teachers shaped my beliefs and opininons. Kids are impressionable, I wouldnt want my kids to be influenced by a man under what I consider a fatal and critical flaw of character. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
(Ok ok I'll bite and assume he's not just an Internet funnyguy)
Maybe I'm just crazy in that way, but I was raised in the polar opposite way. Intercourse was explained to me as a perfectly normal thing, and not an evil of any kind - the same rules as you use for the rest of your life apply there and work just fine. Just don't hurt anyone (be that physically [rape, STD], emotionally or whatever ).
My first discovery of porn was going through a few magazines my (former) stepfather brought along - seeing as how he normally didn't show alot of interest in those things, I can only assume he was trying to educate me without being too intrusive. It is after all a scary and exciting topic, and upon first exploring it most people, including me have the urge to hide away and keep it to ourselves <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The first few months, I did what everyone did. Starting with the softcore found everywhere, going through everything I could get my hands on - until the "too much information" level is reached, and curiosity saturated. Over time that changed into a specific taste - symbolisms and artistic shapes, moods in the pictures, the way people seemed to be enjoying themselves - that I preferred over other porn. Its still phantasizing, and as such never really stale or static - but it became more of an artistic reminder of what sex is, than a novelty pleasure. And security in your sexuality is a good thing - extreme excitement when its either new or forbidden might be interesting, but is more stressful than good for you both physically and character wise. Repression is just not a great thing.
Especially since for you in these years, probably the previous ones and the ones to come, emotional turmoil will already be available in abundance from all sorts of relationships, wether they ever become formal or not. You'll need to keep your head level and above the water, and right now you're honestly on the best route to drowning.
I'm not saying you "Have to think my way", but I'm saying you're having the thoughts that most everyone has. And as much as you want them to, <b>thoughts can never be unthought</b>. Every little thing you consider for the slightest instant, even if its just to not consider it, its there and its part of you as much as the parts that fit with your ideology. Embracing, understanding these thoughts and ultimately yourself is for your benefit, and that of whichever faith you chose to hold.
As far as christianity goes, and whichever flavor of it you're trying to follow, remember that religions were intended to be guiding lights for people - not molding presses to fit every individual into. You will never be able to follow any long-standing religions specifics of the day to the dot, you will only be able to comprehend it and act according to your understanding.
If I can be as rude as to butt in on a religious text I don't know nearly as much about as you probably do, I'd like to point to the old testament : God intended to create <i>his likenesses</i> in man, not followers. And as such they must much like him, make their own decisions. Talk about a curse and a blessing if there ever was one <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Sexual immorality is discussed not only as another sin that a man does to other people, but something that is actually self-destructive if not done in the context of a loving, committed relationship. From EVERYTHING I've seen from my friends and aquaintances at school who've gotten involved with sex, it does hurt people who aren't fully committed to each other. Even if they are, the maturity level of people who are fully committed to another person without a second thought as to the possible long term needs and sacrifical nature of that relationship is not very good, and the relationship is going to crumble anyway. Naturally, those that indulged in sex are going to feel the effects of a break-up much more than those who don't.
The Bible had it right, sex is best left for a committed, mature, loving relationship, called a marriage.
That said, this man is, regardless of if he 'hides his habits' well, he still is disrespecting himself in taking pornographic shots of himself naked, and posting them on the world-wide-goddamn-web. It's sick, it's wrong, and it may not be illegal, but is sure as hell is debaucherous.
What grade level class is he teaching?
What grade level students discovered these photos?
2 cookies to anyone who figures out where I'm going with this. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry sir, I can't take that statuatory cookie.
And unless he in suggested you look at those pictures of him naked, or somehow imposed them on you, he did nothing wrong. Its his own business what he does with his woody and who he shows it to, as long as he's a professional inside the classroom and towards you. If you or your friends can't be that mature, thats your problem honestly and not his.
@CWAG:
Although that sort of thing tends to end a teaching courier quickly enough, beware of a few things :
1. Not all of them, or any, have necessarily slept with him. Theres lots of incentive to lie and/or blackmail your way through that, and the only discouragement being known as the teachers little slut <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
2. If indeed they did however have consentual intercourse with him, theres two possible reasons. The first is the simple one, that he was actually a very charming and handsome guy - in which case you can bet your butt they would listen to what he explains, and try to not fail his class.
3. The other option is that they're doing it for the more dubious reason of getting an easy grade - in which case the veiled or remote threat of telling authoritys (unless its legal in your state and age), would be enough for the teacher to pre-emptively keep that girl happy, and grades being the easiest way to do it.
In short, seriously : <b>How are you going to sleep with a teacher and get bad grades?</b> It'd take a conscious effort to pull off. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats the thing, the rumors that spread after they did weren't negative. They were "You can easily pass his class...if you're a girl." Both of our high-school's counselors know about the goings on, as does the assistant prinipal. They can't fire him because when he was hired he was given tenure. (Meaning he can't be fired for X years)
The teacher says to himself, "Can't be fired eh? Well heck, that means I can do just about anything I want!"
It's like diplomatic immunity for a job. STUPID! (By the way, women have been raped and stores have had 1000s of dollars worth of merchandise stolen from them because of diplomatic immunity.)
He is not disrespecting himself, unless he feels he is. Your moral laws are not applicable to him. Your morality is not applicable to me. It isn't sick either.
Your post really gets me frustrated with Christianity. I have so much repsect for a Christian that can accept people where they are in a loving manner, because that is what your religion is all about. You can't expect people to see the light when you call them "sick" and tell them that they're "disrespecting" themselves. It took my dad so long to learn that before he finally applied those more laid back teachings in the bible to his actual beliefs. I suggest you think about what you're doing here, before you post a reply.
Thanks for being a negative stereotype for your belief system, a belief system that I was explaining in a positive light to my best friend last night. I hold a certain amount of respect for Christians that are real and understand that it isn't their job to judge people in this kind of situation.
Stop judging people like you are living in an age of the old covenant; think New Testament covenant and I think you'll really get what I'm saying here.
He is not disrespecting himself, unless he feels he is. Your moral laws are not applicable to him. Your morality is not applicable to me. It isn't sick either.
Your post really gets me frustrated with Christianity. I have so much repsect for a Christian that can accept people where they are in a loving manner, because that is what your religion is all about. You can't expect people to see the light when you call them "sick" and tell them that they're "disrespecting" themselves. It took my dad so long to learn that before he finally applied those more laid back teachings in the bible to his actual beliefs. I suggest you think about what you're doing here, before you post a reply.
Thanks for being a negative stereotype for your belief system, a belief system that I was explaining in a positive light to my best friend last night. I hold a certain amount of respect for Christians that are real and understand that it isn't their job to judge people in this kind of situation.
Stop judging people like you are living in an age of the old covenant; think New Testament covenant and I think you'll really get what I'm saying here. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, our book of truth does not condem pinning our morality on someone else (assuming our morality is in line with Gods.)
Yes, the Bible says take out the plank in your own eye before looking at the speck in your neighbors - but at the same time we are supposed to fight evil in all it's forms. This is an obvioius form, and we are calling it evil.
Feelings are not the end all in life. Just because something feels good doesnt make it good, and just because it doesn't feel bad, doesn't mean it is.
Acceptance and being loving has 0 to do with pointing out sin. In fact, pointing out sin so that one can repent of it is showing love much more than ignoring it.
As for the covenant, I suggest you study it before trying to tell us what it is. The covenant is 1 covenant through the ages. It has been extended from Abraham to the Jews, and now to the Gentiles. I take part in that covenant - and no where does that covenanats stance on sin change. So no, I don't get what you are saying. If being "new covenant" means "morality is relative" then I think you are the one who needs to read up on it again.
I would have thought it would have everything to do with it. Are you pointing out this mans 'sin' for your benefit, or his?
And how is the bible YOUR book of truth? Surely it's everyones, unless you believe that you are special.
Ugh, I think my brain just died.
He is not disrespecting himself, unless he feels he is. Your moral laws are not applicable to him. Your morality is not applicable to me. It isn't sick either.
Your post really gets me frustrated with Christianity. I have so much repsect for a Christian that can accept people where they are in a loving manner, because that is what your religion is all about. You can't expect people to see the light when you call them "sick" and tell them that they're "disrespecting" themselves. It took my dad so long to learn that before he finally applied those more laid back teachings in the bible to his actual beliefs. I suggest you think about what you're doing here, before you post a reply.
Thanks for being a negative stereotype for your belief system, a belief system that I was explaining in a positive light to my best friend last night. I hold a certain amount of respect for Christians that are real and understand that it isn't their job to judge people in this kind of situation.
Stop judging people like you are living in an age of the old covenant; think New Testament covenant and I think you'll really get what I'm saying here. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Romans 1:
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->God's Wrath Against Mankind
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. <!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
New Testament illuminex - the first part makes incredibly clear that simply because someone doesnt subscribe to your specific belief they are not excused by God. Both passages were written by Paul, the man responsible for the widespread belief that Christians are called to be tolerant. And they are - read the second passage.
Romans 2
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->God's Righteous Judgment
1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?
5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God "will give to each person according to what he has done."[1] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.
12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares. <!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
The second part then takes a stick to any Christians who, reading this, delude themselves into thinking they are better than any of these people, and can judge them.
I dont judge this man - but I think he is doing something evil, that is judging the action, not the man. God loves that man, but he hates what he's doing. That does not make him evil, but it does give me every right to insist my child is not educated in his class. Christians may not give lip to their objection to what he is doing, but if they are 100% consistent, they will believe it to be absolutely wrong.
Pepe was right - you can point out evil and still be loving and accepting. I have only revealed my sickness to one other person - and even then not to the full extent. He knew what I was doing was absolutely wrong, completely depraved, yet he didnt reject me as a friend, he just said "You know that's wrong, you know you have to stop".
The Bible is specifically the Christians book of Truth. They are the only people who believe it to be truth - there are plenty of people who claim is has some truth in it, good moral rules etc, but Christians are the only people who believe it contains absolute truth. Dont get me wrong, we dont keep these books to overselves - it did not get to be the worlds most widely distributed book because we hoard em up in secret chambers in the church, but it is not everyones book of truth.
There's only 2 things to do to the guy!
1: Black Mail him
2: Public Execution.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> (Okay yeah that was harsh, but right now humans are LOW in my eyes (Yes I am one unfortunately))
Get over it. No, really - get over it.
I only have to wonder if we'd be having this discussion if the man posted to a heterosexual web site. All I can say is, being closeted is one of the worst things to force on anyone, though the suffering must be hard for a straight person to imagine or empathize with. So to anyone wishing to impose 'morality', please think of your goal as minimizing human suffering, not adherence to some strict principles that are completely out of your control and hurting no one.
Asking him to completely repress his life because it doesn't fit the status quo is infinitely worse then posting pictures that hurt no one (though really, pron is generally so banal and unimportant to even warrant a discussion of this length, let's talk about something interesting like politics instead).
Would you not want a homosexual teacher that poses on websites, or any teacher that poses on websites?
You are born girl boy, black white, not **** or straight.