Alternative Comming
Dirty_Pirate
Join Date: 2004-09-02 Member: 31207Members
Join Date: 2004-09-02 Member: 31207Members
<div class="IPBDescription">just trying to be different</div>I haven't played ns since 1.04, back when blink was useless, there could only be one gorge to a team, and turrets were unbeatable. Obiously things have changed quite a bit...
So now, being a big strategy buff, I want to try my hand at comming. In most games, I'm the kind of guy who loves to find the wierdest, most unexpected solutions to problems and going crazy with them.
But ns is a totally different ballgame, with players instead of fixed units, cramped levels to work in, and a 3rd dimension to build in, too. It's a little daunting, especially since losing control of your strat usually means that your whole team will have a crappy time. I'm putting my self-esteem on the line every time I dare to sit in that chair :P
Unfortunately, the first time I sat down in the chair, I not only had marines who couldn't shoot (most were about 1:6), but the aliens played one of the most perfect games that anyone on the server has ever seen. So now I want to know exactly what I should be doing when things get crazy, people start dying, and I've already established my base in the early game.
So now, the questions:
-as a comm, what should my first objectives be? I can handle the build order, but where should I be telling my marines to go? And more importantly, I want to know exactly what I CAN't do, so I know where my limits are (and can find goofy stuff to do within them)
-what sort of alternatives do I have to the typical mid-game strats? I've never liked turrets, and I think I could spend my money better on more fluid defenses. If I don't invest any money in turrets, what would be a good alternative defense/upgrade/tech rush? Especially when locking down a hive- what would be a good use of money to protect against fades?
-Lastly, what kind of wierd tricks have already been made that I could possibly use in a pub? I've read about comm blocking, but people usually think that it's lame. Are there any other little tricks I could try (without getting myself kicked from the game)?
There are a million topics I've seen about what a good comm should do. But most of what they recommend (fast response time, accurate med dropping, etc) can be picked up just by learning the interface better. I want to know the strats and build orders that a good comm would use so, if anything, I can have some direction when I next hope in the chair.
So now, being a big strategy buff, I want to try my hand at comming. In most games, I'm the kind of guy who loves to find the wierdest, most unexpected solutions to problems and going crazy with them.
But ns is a totally different ballgame, with players instead of fixed units, cramped levels to work in, and a 3rd dimension to build in, too. It's a little daunting, especially since losing control of your strat usually means that your whole team will have a crappy time. I'm putting my self-esteem on the line every time I dare to sit in that chair :P
Unfortunately, the first time I sat down in the chair, I not only had marines who couldn't shoot (most were about 1:6), but the aliens played one of the most perfect games that anyone on the server has ever seen. So now I want to know exactly what I should be doing when things get crazy, people start dying, and I've already established my base in the early game.
So now, the questions:
-as a comm, what should my first objectives be? I can handle the build order, but where should I be telling my marines to go? And more importantly, I want to know exactly what I CAN't do, so I know where my limits are (and can find goofy stuff to do within them)
-what sort of alternatives do I have to the typical mid-game strats? I've never liked turrets, and I think I could spend my money better on more fluid defenses. If I don't invest any money in turrets, what would be a good alternative defense/upgrade/tech rush? Especially when locking down a hive- what would be a good use of money to protect against fades?
-Lastly, what kind of wierd tricks have already been made that I could possibly use in a pub? I've read about comm blocking, but people usually think that it's lame. Are there any other little tricks I could try (without getting myself kicked from the game)?
There are a million topics I've seen about what a good comm should do. But most of what they recommend (fast response time, accurate med dropping, etc) can be picked up just by learning the interface better. I want to know the strats and build orders that a good comm would use so, if anything, I can have some direction when I next hope in the chair.
Comments
Having a comm who knows how to respond well to situations work well too, knowing when to drop SGs for the inevitable fades that will evolve in the game, knowing to drop mines for phase gates when alien's highest lifeform is a lerk. Another sneaky strat these days is ninja hiving, having one of your better and stealthier marines sneak into an alien hive and build a PG there.
I was about to type out a basic commanding guide here (regardless of peoples oppinions that I have no business doing so <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ), but you can easily spot whats important. Outpace the enemy in res. Stay on the offense, defending only what the enemy actually wants, and then preferrably with mines and manpower. Electricity is an option if you've got the game largely in the bag and want to have some leeway to slack off.
The most common mistakes of new commanders is being fairly slow on everything (meds, building, tech, listening), keeping res spare or being shy on handing out weaponry and welders. The very latest when those 4 minutes roll around, most of your team should have Shotguns and welders - and as soon as possible at least a HMG or two. Other than that, its pretty idiot proof : Second Hive is a really bad thing. Aliens having res is a mildly bad thing.
Should denying the second Hive fail, throw all your eggs into either the immediate offense or the prototech basket.
aka, beacon, and yell at everybody to run straight at the hive yelling obscene comments and gritting their teeth.
(one strat that does work in pubs, is beacon to get everybody together. Often times in pubs, it is all but impossible to get everybody together without a beacon. all but impossible)
-as a comm, what should my first objectives be? I can handle the build order, but where should I be telling my marines to go? And more importantly, I want to know exactly what I CAN't do, so I know where my limits are (and can find goofy stuff to do within them)
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Capping rts, killing theirs. ASAP. You want to be pressuring aroudn their hive and likely spots that a gorge will think is 'safe' to drop an rt. Standard pub would be to go a1 first. Some comms like to rush to a1-w1-w2-w3, or a1-w1-a2-a3, whatever. It's good to get PGs soon, as it's easier to focus the marines on moving them through a gate (an hopeuflly on a marine team, you should have ONE marine who knows locations can get a phase up, if you don't.. well, stick a fork in you cuz yer done <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
What CAN'T you do? Well, you probably would be best NOT ignore rts/alien rts/upgrades.
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-what sort of alternatives do I have to the typical mid-game strats? I've never liked turrets, and I think I could spend my money better on more fluid defenses. If I don't invest any money in turrets, what would be a good alternative defense/upgrade/tech rush? Especially when locking down a hive- what would be a good use of money to protect against fades?
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Mid game strat is usually shotties with upgrades to handle fades. And getting your marines to group. Most comms i've seen post will do at maximum an elect RT/PG to lock a hive. Some comms like to rush armory upgrade to have hmgs in the field asap.
Mid game is usually the marines trying to take down a hive. preferably the 2nd hive. But a quick PG/shottie rush can work on the first hive too, if the aliens are paranoid and overprotective of the building one.
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-Lastly, what kind of wierd tricks have already been made that I could possibly use in a pub? I've read about comm blocking, but people usually think that it's lame. Are there any other little tricks I could try (without getting myself kicked from the game)?
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You're only limited by the server rules, and how much your marines trust you. HG rush, GL rush, hmg rush, a3 rush. There are all types of bizaare strats to try. It's oftena good idea to make sure your marines are game for it.
So now, being a big strategy buff, I want to try my hand at comming. In most games, I'm the kind of guy who loves to find the wierdest, most unexpected solutions to problems and going crazy with them.
But ns is a totally different ballgame, with players instead of fixed units, cramped levels to work in, and a 3rd dimension to build in, too. It's a little daunting, especially since losing control of your strat usually means that your whole team will have a crappy time. I'm putting my self-esteem on the line every time I dare to sit in that chair <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Unfortunately, the first time I sat down in the chair, I not only had marines who couldn't shoot (most were about 1:6), but the aliens played one of the most perfect games that anyone on the server has ever seen. So now I want to know exactly what I should be doing when things get crazy, people start dying, and I've already established my base in the early game.
So now, the questions:
-as a comm, what should my first objectives be? I can handle the build order, but where should I be telling my marines to go? And more importantly, I want to know exactly what I CAN't do, so I know where my limits are (and can find goofy stuff to do within them)
-what sort of alternatives do I have to the typical mid-game strats? I've never liked turrets, and I think I could spend my money better on more fluid defenses. If I don't invest any money in turrets, what would be a good alternative defense/upgrade/tech rush? Especially when locking down a hive- what would be a good use of money to protect against fades?
-Lastly, what kind of wierd tricks have already been made that I could possibly use in a pub? I've read about comm blocking, but people usually think that it's lame. Are there any other little tricks I could try (without getting myself kicked from the game)?
There are a million topics I've seen about what a good comm should do. But most of what they recommend (fast response time, accurate med dropping, etc) can be picked up just by learning the interface better. I want to know the strats and build orders that a good comm would use so, if anything, I can have some direction when I next hope in the chair. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are exactly the kind of player we look to train in #nslearn on gamesurge.net
Please stop by www.nslearn.org for articles on gameplay, including commanding.
If you require further explanation please stop by #nslearn and we will help you.
some simple points and objectives:
- you don't need to focus on your base defense as much, drop a pack of mines for each of your IPs, it's usually enough.
- initial objective is to work your way toward either a hive or a double node point, capturing resource towers along the way.
- even if a node is going to get attacked and destroyed within a minute you should still build it. It takes time for skulks to eat them and that's time not spent killing marines or defending more important things, it's worth it usually
- you probably don't have phase tech once you reach the first hive. you can decide to fortify it or not, if you have 4 or more rez towers i would go ahead and fortify.
- at this point it's wise to settle for an electrified resource node in the hive. Its electricity can protect an adjacent phase gate and even if you can't build those yet, you'll want one eventually.
- you need to have built a TF to electrify, 9 times out of 10 you don't have a TF yet when you reach the first hive so it makes sense to go ahead and drop the TF and 3-4 turrets at this point to lock it up. probably more effective than electricity.
- after you've gotten your first hive, stop and take a breath, check on your marines scores, aliens scores. see if things are in your favor or if their is an alien who is likely going to fade and start tearing you up. take a look at your upgrades, at a minimum any marine will expect to have armor1 and weapon2 before he sees the first fade. get phase tech, you'll need it for your next objective. drop three shotguns, they'l help out with the skulks and could surprise the first fade.
- next objective should either be a double node room or a 2nd hive. first thing built in either location should be a phase gate, then res nodes, then i strongly recomend electrifying the node for defense. even with electricity, no one will hurt you for dropping 4-6 turrets in a second hive or a double room. the aliens are going to want to take those from you.
- once you have the second hive and can keep their fades from doing any serious damage you should be in good shape. while the fades live any offensive is going to be very difficult so hand out those shotguns and start the armory going. the rest is up to you.
- things get rough while you're going for your 2nd objective, either a second hive or double room. ping the location, if you see 4 OCs and you only have about 5 marines grouped to assault it, drop a phase gate nearby. phase gates are cheap for what they do, what they do is let you continue to assault a location and rapidly send in reinforcements, faster than the kharaa can. those OCs are going to kill men, the responding aliens are going to kill men, you need to replace those losses quickly to overwhelm them. sieging out a double location is a last resort, to be tried after your first attack fails, thanks to your phase gate you don't have to try and walk back but can immediately start sieging. if i see the 2nd hive has already started it's worth it to siege it out immediately without risking an assault, though that's a lot more boring.... it all depends on how good your marines are and if you've kept up with upgrades
During this time, you should watch your marines closely/medspam if neccesary.
You should usually go for armor upgrade ASAP, as armor 1 adds 1 skulk bite, and armor level 2 further one bite, lvl3 adds one extra fade swipe and onos gore.
If you wan't to try something different first without armor upgrades (MT first, HA rush = armory upgrade), you need good enough marines.
If your marines die too much, with lower than 1:1 k/d, you should go for armor 2 and pray you have time to kill hive before fades kick in..
It's best to try to hold key points early (hold with marines, not with static defenses), and go for PG usually right after armor 1. If you have good team, you can push the skulks back to hive, and kill main hive at some 3-5 minute. If your team is not that good, your best bet is probably getting PG in second, growing hive.
Sure way to hell is only one - spending starting res on useless things, like 10 turrets in main base.
there are many different strategies, each has it's own riscs. For example HA rush, with say 8 HA at 6th minute is very surprising for aliens :-) But it's hard to hold enough res when fades enter game. 2 hive lock-down also works, but if you leave aliens too many RT, they will eventually overrun you with fades/onos etc..
Electrifying RT sometimes works, but comm must choose which RT to electrify carefully. Relocs works only if target location is really good.. you can try to reloc right next to first hive for some extra fun and risc :-)
If you have bad luck and seem to loose - try conventional SG rush (or PG SG rush) .. simply save for some 5 or more SG, beacon and tell marines to walk to first hive and shoot it, medspam and hive dies in two seconds..
Some other random tips:
- drop armory when you are sieging hive, armory is just 10 res now, as cheap as 5 meds, and gives meds as well as ammo
- if you have lvl2 armor, drop some welders for marins too
- mines are very good, you should drop mines as soon as you get PG up, to secure it quickly with 1-2 packs of mines first. They are sure skulk killers, and damage fade heavilly causing his death by surrounding marines.
- shorguns without gun upgrades are very weak against skulks (you need 2 hits). If you don't want to use gun ugprades, be sure to upgrade armory soon enough, and drop some HMG along with SG. GL are also excellentfor hive sieges, as they eliminate skulks and lerks easilly..
If you don't do the cookie cutter 2 hive lockdown on a pub, everyone assumes you're a "nub comm" and they get their panties in a twist.
But in the end...we end up winning and it's "gg" all around...
You just have to take the criticism at first.
hey I kinda know what Im doing and I *still* **** people off <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> this is the price of diversity <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
HAND OUT SHOTGUNS EARLY
HIVES ARE THE OBJECTIVE ALWAYS
Since one shotgun with 40 shells can switch hands several times, as long as your one or two shotgun guys are with a friend, the friend can pick up the shotty if they die and keep blasting thanks to the new ammo system. Early shotgunners are really pretty nasty against un-upgraded skulks, especially paired with an LMGer guy or two. As long as the shotgun people kill around 5 skulks, they pay for themselves with Res For Kills. Better weapons actually can mean more resources for you.
Mines are great VS skulks, and a pack of four only costs 10 res. For a quick 20 res at the start of the game, you can hand a shotgun and a pack of mines out and increase your defense and offence by that much more.
If the skulks are smart and begin to avoid the mines, buy another pack of mines and fix your defenses. You might also want one guy to just stay at base and build all your stuff and defend it.
Never be shy about handing out HMGs. As soon as your Armory completes its three minute upgrade cycle, drop two to four of those babys and watch the Res-for-kills flow into your resource pool. HMGs and shotguns are the only answer to higher lifeforms like Fades and Onos. If there is a fade on the map, you really need to consider dropping a couple shotguns and organizing a Fade-hunting party.
Comming on pubs is actually pretty easy once you've played a few RTS games and you know what upgrades to get in which order. As long as you constantly have your fingers ready to medpack and ammopack your marines, you can let them win the fight. Bind a button to voicecom which is to the right of the R F and V keys, since the QWERASDFZXCV buttons are used for faster commanding.
Ideally, you should go to the NSLearn forums and read up, then find some small servers or ComTrainer servers maybe and learn how to comm it up. People like you are good. We need more of you.
1) armory
2) obs -> pg tech
make the rines get res. they'll spawn in superfast and be ready for battle. works in pubs well..only seen one comm do it though.
So now, being a big strategy buff, I want to try my hand at comming. In most games, I'm the kind of guy who loves to find the wierdest, most unexpected solutions to problems and going crazy with them.
But ns is a totally different ballgame, with players instead of fixed units, cramped levels to work in, and a 3rd dimension to build in, too. It's a little daunting, especially since losing control of your strat usually means that your whole team will have a crappy time. I'm putting my self-esteem on the line every time I dare to sit in that chair <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Unfortunately, the first time I sat down in the chair, I not only had marines who couldn't shoot (most were about 1:6), but the aliens played one of the most perfect games that anyone on the server has ever seen. So now I want to know exactly what I should be doing when things get crazy, people start dying, and I've already established my base in the early game.
So now, the questions:
-as a comm, what should my first objectives be? I can handle the build order, but where should I be telling my marines to go? And more importantly, I want to know exactly what I CAN't do, so I know where my limits are (and can find goofy stuff to do within them)
-what sort of alternatives do I have to the typical mid-game strats? I've never liked turrets, and I think I could spend my money better on more fluid defenses. If I don't invest any money in turrets, what would be a good alternative defense/upgrade/tech rush? Especially when locking down a hive- what would be a good use of money to protect against fades?
-Lastly, what kind of wierd tricks have already been made that I could possibly use in a pub? I've read about comm blocking, but people usually think that it's lame. Are there any other little tricks I could try (without getting myself kicked from the game)?
There are a million topics I've seen about what a good comm should do. But most of what they recommend (fast response time, accurate med dropping, etc) can be picked up just by learning the interface better. I want to know the strats and build orders that a good comm would use so, if anything, I can have some direction when I next hope in the chair. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are exactly the kind of player we look to train in #nslearn on gamesurge.net
Please stop by www.nslearn.org for articles on gameplay, including commanding.
If you require further explanation please stop by #nslearn and we will help you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you would've made a good information minister for iraq, you know?
You'd make a great janitor at Mcdonald's.
Actually I take that back, its disrespectful to the employees of Mcdonalds that try to earn a living and contribute to the society in which they live.
As far as the basics are concerned there are two things you need to be doing at all times. Call them Primary objectives if you will:
1)secure nodes: more nodes, more res (duh). Tactics range from electrifying every damn one, to only having a few, but making sure the enemy has none.
2)upgrade: If your not upgrading something at any given time that should mean you're behind, or you've gotten all the upgrades
Now those are the straightforward things that need to be achieved first and foremost, the not so important but still not to be neglected (Secondary Objectives),
1)Hive lockdown, especially late in the game, must have at least one hive secured, early on, not too as important.
2) Re-arming and re-equiping, this is the biggest **** since people will always be yelling for guns and jetpacks, but you have to understand this particular objective should only be used to help meet any of the objectives listed above. Shotties early on before fades, a gl for holding a siege location near a hive, and HMGS for Onos is the how I usually play.
For the most part, you'll figure it out, don't get upset or nuts in the chair, it is just a game remember.
Fades can break locks pretty easily. Most people when they lockdown a hive get focused on defending it too much. A couple of fades can attack your base and your expansion, while some gorges cap.
Lockdowns cost way too much res and are inefficent against fades. You are bettere off taking that res and attacking the hive.
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more important than the fact that fades can break the lockdowns is that if you spam turrets you won't have resources for upgrades and you will stand no chance versus fades
it's better to go fast and take out the aliens as quickly as possible, dragging the game out by trying to 'secure' spots is a waste of both time and resources