Is Anger Only A Product Of Fear?
DiscoZombie
Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18951Members
Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18951Members
in Off-Topic
being nerds, we all know what Yoda said: "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."
how much do you agree with this? personally, I agree completely. I think the only reason we're ever mad is because we're scared of something. we fight with our loved ones because we're scared of them hurting us. we get angry about political views because we're scared of what would happen if the dreaded other party won. et cetera.
I believe knowing and accepting this fact doesn't do ALL that much for you, but it does let you understand yourself and your emotions a little better... this came up because I was talking to my GF about why I don't like any angry music because I just can't relate to it. I consider it dishonest and wish the artists would just express the fear and sadness behind it instead. then I got to thinking that maybe angry music is kinda like a sport - athletes on a field aren't really angry or scared of their opponents, they just psyche themselves up so they play better and it's more fun to watch... anyway I know I'm majorly in the minority in not liking hard music, so go ahead and talk about anything I said. I'm going to sleep. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
this is kinda more a discussion question than an off-topic one, but I figured it'd get more exposure here... if it gets taken seriously enough, feel free to move it.
how much do you agree with this? personally, I agree completely. I think the only reason we're ever mad is because we're scared of something. we fight with our loved ones because we're scared of them hurting us. we get angry about political views because we're scared of what would happen if the dreaded other party won. et cetera.
I believe knowing and accepting this fact doesn't do ALL that much for you, but it does let you understand yourself and your emotions a little better... this came up because I was talking to my GF about why I don't like any angry music because I just can't relate to it. I consider it dishonest and wish the artists would just express the fear and sadness behind it instead. then I got to thinking that maybe angry music is kinda like a sport - athletes on a field aren't really angry or scared of their opponents, they just psyche themselves up so they play better and it's more fun to watch... anyway I know I'm majorly in the minority in not liking hard music, so go ahead and talk about anything I said. I'm going to sleep. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
this is kinda more a discussion question than an off-topic one, but I figured it'd get more exposure here... if it gets taken seriously enough, feel free to move it.
Comments
I like the way you think.
you kinda remind me of something Donnie said in Donnie Darko... which basically meant that you have to recognize each emotional individually, not as two points on a line. fear may lead into anger, but not in all circumstances.
if i were to unleash a string of curses upon you with this post, you'd probably be mad, but unless you knew for a fact that i was some sort of psycho internet stalker/serial killer dude, you probably wouldn't be very afraid...
how much do you agree with this? personally, I agree completely. I think the only reason we're ever mad is because we're scared of something. we fight with our loved ones because we're scared of them hurting us. we get angry about political views because we're scared of what would happen if the dreaded other party won. et cetera. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the fallacy-of-something-I-don't-remember-the-exact-name-of.
Say we have the condition "if there is fear, then there is anger", and we assume this condition is always true. We can tell from this two things:
1: where there is fear, there will always be anger as well.
2: where there is no fear, there can't be anger.
However, we can <i>not</i> infer "where there is anger, it must be from fear", which is what you're saying.
In other words, Yoda didn't say anything about fear being the <i>only</i> origin of anger, and I'd say it's pretty obvious that there are others.
- Shockwave
The subset of fear known as worry seems prettty pointless though... Isn't fear what can often hold people back from doing great things? I mean I've lost count of how many threads I've seen on the net over the years from boys talking about how they blew their chance with someone because of fear <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
that's a pretty cool quote, me like :>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Nah, anger's a product of getting really annoyed with someone. However, that wouldn't have been such a cool thing for Yoda to say.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
true. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yoda didn't say anything about fear being the only origin of anger, and I'd say it's pretty obvious that there are others.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this may be true, but not in my beliefs... I was just using Yoda as an example; it's more of a tenet of Taoism I'm talking about (see a short comparison of Taoism and Jedi-ism <a href='http://www.theforce.net/rouser/essays/frodoforce09.shtml' target='_blank'>here</a>). anyway, give me an example or two of other sources of anger, my beliefs are subject to change :>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, there are exceptions. For example, I find myself regularily irritated by the stupidity displayed by 90% of our species on a regular basis. This doesn't mean I'm scared of them, except as possibly a source of infection. I just can't stand how utterly animalistic some people are in the way they react.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I couldn't possibly get inside your head, but if I wanted to try to explain this in my way of thinking, I could say you might be subconsciously scared of a few things, like being surrouned by incompetents around you who have the ability to screw up your life or the world with their stupidity... or maybe even the fear of not fitting in because you're not stupid and don't think like them... or maybe it's frustration at something else in life that gets focused on these people... I'm just tossing possibilities out there, I don't know what's true - I just know the only times I, personally, get mad, are when I feel like I have to <b>defend</b> myself against something, be it stupidity, being hurt (emotionally or physically), being rejected, etc...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if i were to unleash a string of curses upon you with this post, you'd probably be mad, but unless you knew for a fact that i was some sort of psycho internet stalker/serial killer dude, you probably wouldn't be very afraid...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd be taken aback, like, "why is he so mad at me?" but I wouldn't really be mad, unless I was scared everyone thought you were right and I deserved all those cusses, in which case I would be mad because I would be scared my reputation (whatever that is <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->) was threatened, so I'd try to defend it...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That is like asking is a child the only product of one drunken night of unprotected sex?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know *I* was! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> but if you're saying there's more than one thing behind anger, then suit yourself. I'm not here to force my worldview on anyone, just to yak about it.
you may not be scared of 12-year-olds, but maybe you're scared of their mentality, and the fact that smacktards like them of any age can target anyone at any time for any reason. it IS pretty scary how common people like them are... it reminds me of people throwing rocks at and crucifying Jesus - I'm not even a Christian, but I know people hated him and were angry at him because they were scared about what he stood for that challenged the status quo.
you could be scared for the poor old lady, too, more directly...
The subset of fear known as worry seems prettty pointless though... Isn't fear what can often hold people back from doing great things? I mean I've lost count of how many threads I've seen on the net over the years from boys talking about how they blew their chance with someone because of fear <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah, I think at its root fear and anger are self-preservation mechanisms, but even if people don't understand their anger and fear, they know how to channel it... for instance if someone helpless is being picked on, I don't directly have anything to be scared of, but indirectly, I can be scared of what it stands for, and how that behavior is let slide throughout society... fear IS meant to keep us from doing stupid stuff, from walking in front of buses to failing out of school, but of course it can MAKE us do stupid stuff too... "we fear that which we don't understand"... I would argue that white supremacists lynched black people because they didn't know they were just normal people, and they were scared of what it would mean if they were considered their equals... and, back toward the 1800's, they were also scared and angry about losing their way of life, which centered on using slave labor... just another example... fear and anger like any emotion can help us and hurt us too... I think worry is probably a kind of fear people don't know how to deal with or react to... if I'm worried about some paper I don't think I'm able to do, for instance, I can't really get mad about it, and the subtle fear paralyzes me... same thing with your example of not going after love interests... so I guess I can't see much of an upside to worry... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
edit: I've been typing too fast. 2 spelling errors.
Slightly off-topic here but the one important thing to remember about society is that you're part of it. If you watch someone being beat up in horror thinking someone should stop them then is it really any wonder it's like that because nobody <b>does</b> anything? =3
I saw some poor guy getting kicked on the floor in town. If I hadn't been on the bus which went shooting past them I'd have been there screaming at the jerk... as it was I was on the verge of getting off at the next stop and running back (much to my friend's confusion) but oh well; it was 'nice' to see everyone who was on the street walk right past the violent event taking place in a public place in broad daylight trying to pretend they didn't notice it -.-
I like to think of how these same people will no doubt later comment to someone how society is going down the drain or how violence in society is terrible when they demonstrated oh so aptly why that is when they sat back and did nothing when it was in their power to make a difference...
That's a good point.
Slightly off-topic here but the one important thing to remember about society is that you're part of it. If you watch someone being beat up in horror thinking someone should stop them then is it really any wonder it's like that because nobody <b>does</b> anything? =3
I saw some poor guy getting kicked on the floor in town. If I hadn't been on the bus which went shooting past them I'd have been there screaming at the jerk... as it was I was on the verge of getting off at the next stop and running back (much to my friend's confusion) but oh well; it was 'nice' to see everyone who was on the street walk right past the violent event taking place in a public place in broad daylight trying to pretend they didn't notice it -.-
I like to think of how these same people will no doubt later comment to someone how society is going down the drain or how violence in society is terrible when they demonstrated oh so aptly why that is when they sat back and did nothing when it was in their power to make a difference... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
definitely another bad product of fear. people are definitely more scared for themselves than they are for other people, so unless you're certain the attacker won't turn on you, or you know you could easily handle the attacker, or unless you're feeling particularly brave, most people WILL just walk on by rather than risk getting hurt themselves... people tell themselves 'someone else will help,' or 'why should I stick *MY* neck out'...
alas.
I should stop spamming my own topic. :>
Are you sure it's 90% of all the human race, or 90% of just the people you have been exposed to and don't know a lot about?
And can't there by subliminal fear, such as fear that you don't exhibit emotionally but is there. You see a kid doing something stupid and you feal anger, but subliminally you'd have fear, fear for the kidding hurting himself or him hurting others which would lead to the anger.
In order to find out if fear leads to anger is to pinpoint where your anger comes from.
Slightly off-topic here but the one important thing to remember about society is that you're part of it. If you watch someone being beat up in horror thinking someone should stop them then is it really any wonder it's like that because nobody <b>does</b> anything? =3
I saw some poor guy getting kicked on the floor in town. If I hadn't been on the bus which went shooting past them I'd have been there screaming at the jerk... as it was I was on the verge of getting off at the next stop and running back (much to my friend's confusion) but oh well; it was 'nice' to see everyone who was on the street walk right past the violent event taking place in a public place in broad daylight trying to pretend they didn't notice it -.-
I like to think of how these same people will no doubt later comment to someone how society is going down the drain or how violence in society is terrible when they demonstrated oh so aptly why that is when they sat back and did nothing when it was in their power to make a difference... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
definitely another bad product of fear. people are definitely more scared for themselves than they are for other people, so unless you're certain the attacker won't turn on you, or you know you could easily handle the attacker, or unless you're feeling particularly brave, most people WILL just walk on by rather than risk getting hurt themselves... people tell themselves 'someone else will help,' or 'why should I stick *MY* neck out'...
alas.
I should stop spamming my own topic. :> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Reminds me of a Boondock Saints quote, although I forget it. Something about the indifference of good people.
The subset of fear known as worry seems prettty pointless though... Isn't fear what can often hold people back from doing great things? I mean I've lost count of how many threads I've seen on the net over the years from boys talking about how they blew their chance with someone because of fear <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm going to vote they're different but related.
I don't fear death, but that doesn't mean I'm going to run out into traffic. I'm for preserving myself until I deem it a worthy time (or nature does) that I should die. Saving someone, viral infection, decapitation (...not a big fan of that one <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> )...whatever. So in a similar vain, I'd be willing to run out into traffic to push someone I deem more worthy to society than myself out of the way.
Although, a lot of people fear death and pain, so I guess it can apply differently to other people.
...I'm weird <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> .