<!--QuoteBegin-007Bistromath+Sep 7 2004, 08:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (007Bistromath @ Sep 7 2004, 08:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I recognize you can't make it invisible, but it doesn't really need to be if you're talking about first sight/first shot. I think you're underestimating the stealthiness of the Raptor's design anyway, but even if you're not, considering the fact that the F/A-22 is far faster and more maneuverable than any other plane out there, the other stealth planes included, a signature that is merely hard to see is all that is needed. In the rather less likely event that the pilot of a Raptor is spotted and fired upon before he could react, the countermeasures should be more than enough to shake off the missile because of the plane's ability to execute extremely sharp turns. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry mate but again your wrong it's neither the fastest nor the most manuverable plane out there. One of it's main "stealth" characteristics is to limit it's thermal profile which means less thrust and less thrust means less speed.
It's top speed is around Mach 1.2 which altho fast is far from being the fastest the Tu-22 can do Mach 1.8. The Mig 25 for example is capable of going above Mach 2.8 and the F-15 is capable of Mach 2.5
As for manuverability, well you only have to look at F-16 or the Eurofigher or even the crusty old Sea Harrier.
PS: At the Thunder over Louisville event, the planes use an approach to the river that flies directly over my house. In one year when the B2 was arround that meant it flies over my house too. I have a picture of it but no scanner to upload it for you guys. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyways I can describe it as this:
B2: shockingly quiet plane when in stealth mode and flies low to the ground. It has some of the most advanced autopiolet software which allow it to soar just a few meters above the ground objects. When it passed over me I was outside wattering and got this sense that something big was near. Look up to see the B2 coasting like a big quite shadow of death over the trees and the house. And it's big when you are this close to it. It's kind of like when in <i>Independance Day </i> the aliens' ships cast a big shadow over everythign and you get that dull, deep whoosh sound and a chill. Yeah kinda like that. And while it looks bizzarely flat when viewing it from the sides, I must say standing underneath it when it's flying over you it is big. I think it was moving at like somewhat less than 100MPH because it went by quicker than a car down a highway but because of it's size it seemed to move much slower. I'm thinking it was gliding.
<!--QuoteBegin-V-MAN+Sep 7 2004, 03:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (V-MAN @ Sep 7 2004, 03:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sorry mate but again your wrong it's neither the fastest nor the most manuverable plane out there. One of it's main "stealth" characteristics is to limit it's thermal profile which means less thrust and less thrust means less speed.
It's top speed is around Mach 1.2 which altho fast is far from being the fastest the Tu-22 can do Mach 1.8. The Mig 25 for example is capable of going above Mach 2.8 and the F-15 is capable of Mach 2.5
As for manuverability, well you only have to look at F-16 or the Eurofigher or even the crusty old Sea Harrier. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Allow me to amend that: fastest of that class of plane. Obviously planes built for speed will go faster.
It IS the most maneuverable, though. The thrust vectoring system and advanced fly-by-wire stuff sees to that.
I've seen concorde glide with it's engines off at farnbourgh in 1988 and that was really kool, it came in low over all the people sitting in the car park on their car roofs (myself included).
That big Russian transport plane the Anatov landed at farnbourgh in 88 as well and the back wash from it's engines tore the gates at the end of the runway off their mounts and sent em flying a good distance along the runway.
These gates were cast iron and a good 20 feet high as well <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> good thing the people sitting on the top of them had got down a few minutes earlier.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
Did they get rid of the strong bad pic on that first page b/c the cockpit looks all normal now. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The only way I saw anything was from WHO Thems pic.
<!--QuoteBegin-007Bistromath+Sep 7 2004, 09:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (007Bistromath @ Sep 7 2004, 09:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-V-MAN+Sep 7 2004, 03:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (V-MAN @ Sep 7 2004, 03:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sorry mate but again your wrong it's neither the fastest nor the most manuverable plane out there. One of it's main "stealth" characteristics is to limit it's thermal profile which means less thrust and less thrust means less speed.
It's top speed is around Mach 1.2 which altho fast is far from being the fastest the Tu-22 can do Mach 1.8. The Mig 25 for example is capable of going above Mach 2.8 and the F-15 is capable of Mach 2.5
As for manuverability, well you only have to look at F-16 or the Eurofigher or even the crusty old Sea Harrier. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Allow me to amend that: fastest of that class of plane. Obviously planes built for speed will go faster.
It IS the most maneuverable, though. The thrust vectoring system and advanced fly-by-wire stuff sees to that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The Harrier has been using thrust vectoring since the 1960s....
Fly-by-wire.... do you even know what your talking about?
All fly-by-wire means is there there is no direct mechanical link from the controls to the rudder or flaps etc that's been around for decades as well.
It's far from being THE most manuverable Fighter jet to believe so it's just plane silly.
There is a belief with the F-16 that it's so mauverable that the pilot would fail before the airframe would, it can withstand over 9G.
How much can the F-22 withstand then? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-reasa+Sep 7 2004, 04:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (reasa @ Sep 7 2004, 04:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hmm they fixed it now... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yea i was about to say that <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The F/A-22 is capable of cruising without afterburners at speeds above mach 1. It's not the fastest plane in the world, but its ability to cruise at high speeds gives it advantages fuel economy-wise that no other plane has.
It has better maneuverability than most planes in its class, and it is one of the stealthiest aircraft in the world.
The ability to cruise without afterburners already allows the plane a smaller than average IR signature, but the exhaust pipes at the end of the plane are made to disperse heat quickly, bringing the already small IR signature down to minute levels.
The aircraft is also difficult to pick up on radar. It's not impossible, and certainly a very high powered radar might be able to get a lock, but maintaining a radar lock on a stealthly aircraft can be very difficult, particularly once it starts maneuvering and/or releasing countermeasures to any missiles fired at it.
An aircraft designed to hunt down stealth aircraft must be able to lock onto and then track that aircraft. There is currently no known radar that is able to lock onto and then continuously track a stealth aircraft.
Comments
Sorry mate but again your wrong it's neither the fastest nor the most manuverable plane out there. One of it's main "stealth" characteristics is to limit it's thermal profile which means less thrust and less thrust means less speed.
It's top speed is around Mach 1.2 which altho fast is far from being the fastest the Tu-22 can do Mach 1.8. The Mig 25 for example is capable of going above Mach 2.8 and the F-15 is capable of Mach 2.5
As for manuverability, well you only have to look at F-16 or the Eurofigher or even the crusty old Sea Harrier.
Anyways I can describe it as this:
B2: shockingly quiet plane when in stealth mode and flies low to the ground. It has some of the most advanced autopiolet software which allow it to soar just a few meters above the ground objects. When it passed over me I was outside wattering and got this sense that something big was near. Look up to see the B2 coasting like a big quite shadow of death over the trees and the house. And it's big when you are this close to it. It's kind of like when in <i>Independance Day </i> the aliens' ships cast a big shadow over everythign and you get that dull, deep whoosh sound and a chill. Yeah kinda like that. And while it looks bizzarely flat when viewing it from the sides, I must say standing underneath it when it's flying over you it is big. I think it was moving at like somewhat less than 100MPH because it went by quicker than a car down a highway but because of it's size it seemed to move much slower. I'm thinking it was gliding.
It's top speed is around Mach 1.2 which altho fast is far from being the fastest the Tu-22 can do Mach 1.8. The Mig 25 for example is capable of going above Mach 2.8 and the F-15 is capable of Mach 2.5
As for manuverability, well you only have to look at F-16 or the Eurofigher or even the crusty old Sea Harrier. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Allow me to amend that: fastest of that class of plane. Obviously planes built for speed will go faster.
It IS the most maneuverable, though. The thrust vectoring system and advanced fly-by-wire stuff sees to that.
That big Russian transport plane the Anatov landed at farnbourgh in 88 as well and the back wash from it's engines tore the gates at the end of the runway off their mounts and sent em flying a good distance along the runway.
These gates were cast iron and a good 20 feet high as well <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> good thing the people sitting on the top of them had got down a few minutes earlier.
The only way I saw anything was from WHO Thems pic.
It's top speed is around Mach 1.2 which altho fast is far from being the fastest the Tu-22 can do Mach 1.8. The Mig 25 for example is capable of going above Mach 2.8 and the F-15 is capable of Mach 2.5
As for manuverability, well you only have to look at F-16 or the Eurofigher or even the crusty old Sea Harrier. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Allow me to amend that: fastest of that class of plane. Obviously planes built for speed will go faster.
It IS the most maneuverable, though. The thrust vectoring system and advanced fly-by-wire stuff sees to that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Harrier has been using thrust vectoring since the 1960s....
Fly-by-wire.... do you even know what your talking about?
All fly-by-wire means is there there is no direct mechanical link from the controls to the rudder or flaps etc that's been around for decades as well.
It's far from being THE most manuverable Fighter jet to believe so it's just plane silly.
There is a belief with the F-16 that it's so mauverable that the pilot would fail before the airframe would, it can withstand over 9G.
How much can the F-22 withstand then? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yea i was about to say that <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Funny while it lasted.
Onto the arguments of the F/A-22.
The F/A-22 is capable of cruising without afterburners at speeds above mach 1. It's not the fastest plane in the world, but its ability to cruise at high speeds gives it advantages fuel economy-wise that no other plane has.
It has better maneuverability than most planes in its class, and it is one of the stealthiest aircraft in the world.
The ability to cruise without afterburners already allows the plane a smaller than average IR signature, but the exhaust pipes at the end of the plane are made to disperse heat quickly, bringing the already small IR signature down to minute levels.
The aircraft is also difficult to pick up on radar. It's not impossible, and certainly a very high powered radar might be able to get a lock, but maintaining a radar lock on a stealthly aircraft can be very difficult, particularly once it starts maneuvering and/or releasing countermeasures to any missiles fired at it.
An aircraft designed to hunt down stealth aircraft must be able to lock onto and then track that aircraft. There is currently no known radar that is able to lock onto and then continuously track a stealth aircraft.