Beta 6. The Big One.
Rapier7
Join Date: 2004-02-05 Member: 26108Members
Join Date: 2004-02-05 Member: 26108Members
Ladies and gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen...
It's what we've all been waiting for. The anticipated <i>balance</i> patch after Beta 5.
What do YOU think is going in there?
I want real answers, no "bring back babblers!" or **** like that.
Personally, I'm looking forward to these two tweaks:
Stronger hand grenades.
A buffed skulk (speed or armor or both).
What about you guys?
It's what we've all been waiting for. The anticipated <i>balance</i> patch after Beta 5.
What do YOU think is going in there?
I want real answers, no "bring back babblers!" or **** like that.
Personally, I'm looking forward to these two tweaks:
Stronger hand grenades.
A buffed skulk (speed or armor or both).
What about you guys?
Comments
SLIGHTLY Beefed skulk (the knockback reduction has already powered the skulk up a bit)
stronger stomp
stronger acid rocket
ns under 'my games' list on games list
jet packs less dominating
*not really b6 but*
the manuel having more of a story behind it, rather than a list of what everything does
Revamped CO spawn system
Buffed skulks
Unchained chambers (If the devs ever like this idea, we don't know their stance on this issue) should be left to something like NS 4.0 or NS 2, its too big a change to be implemented in one beta version.
- Gorge cost 5 res. Alien starting res lowered to 20. Modified Travelyn idea. Delays early fades, strengthens Alien's fragile economy.
- New JP counter ability for third hive fades. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=51&t=80382&hl=&view=findpost&p=1234421' target='_blank'>Read</a>
- Old 1.04 metabolize abilty replaces stomp as Onos' 2nd hive ability. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=80376&st=60' target='_blank'>Read</a>
- Bile 'Bomb' (can only be dropped) for 2nd hive Lerks. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=78539' target='_blank'>Read</a>
- Umbra bumped to (3/4) but moved to hive 3. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=51&t=80376&hl=&view=findpost&p=1234452' target='_blank'>Read</a>
- Primal Scream goes to the Onos.
- Added third person reload animations. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=71663&hl=' target='_blank'>Read</a> [Done?]
- Eliminated CC blocking. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69588&hl=' target='_blank'>Read</a>
- Offensive Chambers / Turrets prioritize players as targets. [Done]
- New MT behavior. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69667&hl=' target='_blank'>Read</a> <u>or</u> Obs requires communication upgrade from Arms Lab. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=78339&hl=' target='_blank'>Read</a>
- Marine sidestep penalized to half the penalty of backpedal.
- Marine knife damage vs lifeforms lowered to 10.
- Improved alien spawning for large ns_ games. [Done]
- Removed RFK.
- Skulk de-evolve cost lowered to 0. [Done]
- Upper tier alien lifeforms "push" lower lifeforms -automatically.
- HMGs given a 'warmup' time. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=81355&hl=' target='_blank'>Read</a> Gives each weapon a specific role, promote marine teamplay.
A good tutorial, that shows newer players that ambushing is the best way of killing marines etc as opposed to rushing, as well as teach them to not check out the cool-looking rhino thing or the scary black thing in classic maps, as it will hurt their team, but to do things like that in combat instead.
With smarter and more educated players, people will hopefully be quicker to catch on to the fact that NS isn't all that hard and unbalanced. Seriously, from my experience, the bias in marine-aliens atm is about 60-40% with equally skilled teams. On publics however, with less game knowledge and skill, a new alien player hurts by far more than a new marine player. id really say it's closer to 73-28% in those situations. That's why a good tutorial would at least be SUCH A GREAT HELP PEOPLE, PLEASE, TEACH THE HATCHLINGS NOT TO RUN AT MARINES AND EXPECT TO KILL HIM.
Once you get the mental and practical balance being the players' brain sorted, you can do minor tweaks such as:
Skulks - 5 hp boost, or 5% basic speed increase. Pick what you think is best, I don't care. Just make them -slightly- more useful for business other than biting res towers and parasiting (before hive2, anyway).
--------------------------
Fade - 5% basic speed increase, so that it's, again, slightly better at one hive, and that you won't **** your pants when you're that poor sod having to go fade in a pcw (or scrim) looking at half a team of lvl2 ish shotgun/hmg with welders advancing on a hive. Give them a chance, come on.
Gorge - The 'new' bilebomb is horrible IMO, because you have to just about stand in their base to even clear some mines. It has no range whatsoever, maybe its just me, i didnt notice it in the changelogs, but the range seems to have been nerfed. They're fine otherwise.
Offense Chambers - Increase the speed of the spikes so they can actually hit people that know how to avoid them.
Third hive abilities - It's a cliche, but honestly, the second-best alien's final and supposedly most powerful attack does less damage than the basic attack of the builder alien. Charge, I dunno, it's just near useless, you might as well toss it out and put something useful in its place. And Primal Scream's duration needs to be increased.
Hand Grenades / Catpacks - Not in a single beta have I seen any use for either of these whatsoever. If you could make catpacks so that they work identical to handgrenades, meaning you research them, get one for free during your entire life, and that you can activate them yourself, they would be useful. Not sure if it would suddenly be TOO useful, perhaps reduce its duration or increase the research cost to balance it out. As for hand grenades, well, give them a damage boost or something, because atm they're good for nothing but the comedy "LOL HERE COMES SKULK ROUND CORNER HI SKULK *BANG*" moments.
Turrets -, I mean, it's hardly fair that you practically need an onos when some pubbers decide it'd be cool to place a tf, a phase gate next to the resource tower, electrify em both, and have about ~6 turrets surrounding it. It's boring, frustrating, and totally unfair when marines could basically get MT, armor1, a phase gate each in the empty hives, and lame it up, and there's nearly nothing you can do about it. Reduce the damage turrets do, back to about 5-6 per shot.
If you'd do that, you could possibly bring the pub balance back to a 50-50 level, and maybe the 'real' balance to 45-55%. The marine domination has been going on for too long, It'll be a big step forward.
Just make it so that the base skulk gets 10 more armor and a 10% base speed boost and you'll have less pub marines owning up the skulks, which leads to a more evenly spread early game.
my apologies if this has already been implemented, i dont play combat alot. but when i did i do remember this happenin often.
Make armory healing reliable: either a gradual healing like the many plugins, or make them give a medpack with every use(every other use?) but only when the knife is out.
Just make it so that the base skulk gets 10 more armor and a 10% base speed boost and you'll have less pub marines owning up the skulks, which leads to a more evenly spread early game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You come over to a decent server, yes, decent server, where some average comm decides to farm it up whilst getting upgrades in an agonizingly slow pace. Assume there are at least a couple of marines standing at the phase gate, doesn't even have to be carrying shotguns. I challenge you to go fade and make all the marines and turrets magically disappear in a puddle of mystical blood.
oh wait you cant you'll die!
But fine. 7-8 damage, so a couple of aliens at least have a CHANCE to break a turtle, at one hive.
In other words, if you balance it nicely for 6vs6, and part of that balance is that only FIVE people spawn at once... then you gotta take that FIVE and scale it up as server size increases and scale it down as it decreases. Same goes for any number to do with 'players'.
There is no excuse for having some arbitrary fixed number such as 'five spawns', in a game where actual number of players on a side is NOT FIXED.
Toned down jetpacks. Nothing beats having your Hive raped because no one is a Gorge with Web.
Catpacks that increase reload rate instead of firing rate (would make them useful with GLs!) except with the Knife, which doesn't reload as we all know.
Catpacks that drop as soon as you've been damaged instead of as soon as you've gotten a kill and OH MY YOU HAVE NO AMMO LEFT IN YOUR CLIP, PLUS THE ACTION IS OVER! Good for escaping Lerk spores faster, too.
More than one hand grenade per spawn in Co_, or the ability to gain more per life. Those things are rediculously hard to kill with.
Hand grenade that actually explodes should you die before being able to throw them, but after you've taken out the pin.
And.. a scorpion that hovers w/o flappign.
Oh dear, I appear to have misread the topic, suppose I'd better add something up here.
What I'd think is going in...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One of the various OC change suggestions to prevent OC sniping.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Proper bunnyhopping support via built in 3jump/special in jump when using a skulk fade or oni (the only three that will bother with bhopping at all)
<span style='color:red'>OR</span>
Total removal of BH and increasing base speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Various numbers slightly altered.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bug fixes.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not much else.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='color:red'>-/edit-</span>
<span style='color:red'>-original post, what I think SHOULD be going in-</span>
Let me see... short of a complete resource system overhaul...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Building and med/ammo/cat dropping restricted to within 20<span style='color:red'>*</span> metres of a live marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Electricity upgrade only triggers when the affected structure is bitten...
<span style='color:red'>OR</span>
Electricity upgrade does almost zero damage, instead HEAVILY draining alien stamina, ie. three zaps completely drains it, possibly with an increased rate of fire. Thus the upgrade heavily slows their rate of attack as they are constantly low on adren - electricity becomes a strong delaying upgrade instead of the defensive upgrade of death.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Proper bunnyhopping support via built in 3jump/special in jump when using a skulk fade or oni (the only three that will bother with bhopping at all)
<span style='color:red'>OR</span>
Total removal of BH and increasing base speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A massive increase in jetpack fuel consumption and a longer delay between jumps (possibly a minimum fuel amount to take off, thus allowing instant jumping until you are low on fuel).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A return to the old hive sight: When you see an enemy, the whole team sees them, hives return to hive sight, able to hide hivesight with the flashlight key.
This would be an incredible boost to alien teamwork and a return to the silent communication of old.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One of the various OC change suggestions to prevent OC sniping.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Siege cannon damage vs players removed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A complete onos redesign.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Removal of chamber restrictions.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Various numbers altered to restore balance.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='color:red'>*range subject to change.</span>
<span style='color:red'>-/original post-</span>
A slight buff to the skulk (+5 hp?).
A nerf to the skulk (leap costs more adrenaline?).
Various bug fixes.
Various map tweaks.
I doubt whether anything as big as unchained or res-system improvements will go in there, since they probably want to get on with releasing RC 3.0.
My wishlist:<ul><li>TFs have smaller turret build radius (so turret farms require more TFs)</li><li>when catpacked marine receives ammo (through ammopack or armory), ammo is loaded directly into current clip first before reserve</li><li>resupply on JPers only works when on ground</li><li>onos devour gives much more regen, makes the onos much slower, and digests faster</li><li>handgrenades deal normal damage instead of seige damage and deal more damage (more anti-unit instead of anti-structure)</li><li>new priority targetting system for electricity and sentry turrets: they target the closest OC, evo chamber, onos, or fade in range; if no such target exists, they instead target the closest alien RT, skulk, lerk, or gorge in range</li><li>aliens can now re-upgrade in classic to switch upgrades</li><li>bigger RFK rewards for skulk and gorge</li><li>give skulks and gorges some resistance to seige damage (grenades and seige turrets)</li><li>webs are immune to grenades from GLs (not handgrenades) and seige turrets</li><li>acid rocket rate of fire increased and energy decreased (if they can't increase damage w/o increasing splash, increase the overall damage/second)</li><li>charge improved (somehow...)</li><li>skulk speed increased a bit</li><li>phase gate hitpoints decreased a bit</li><li>shotgun damage or rate of fire decreased a bit</li><li>evolving times decreased</li><li>electricity only damages one alien at a time</li><li>BUS</li><li>alien res flow increases as # marines increases (balance large games)</li></ul>
All aliens made viable at attacking and their own specific roles:
Skulk: Buffed to 70/25. Speed increased to 325.
Gorge: Cost raised to 15 resources/1 level in combat (starting resources raised to 30). Health buffed to 150/85. Bilebomb damage raised to 250 (still only damages structures) to make it slightly more viable than onos gore. Web limit raised to 40. Carapace armor gain raised to 30/level.
Lerk: 30 resources/2 levels in combat (available at the beginning of game in NS mode, to allow for more strategy). Health buffed to 140/45. Speed raised to 220 (for faster flying purposes mostly, this raises base flight speed from 525 to 660). Flight cost lowered to 1%/flap. Umbra lasts 5 seconds instead of 3. Primal Scream lasts 6 seconds instead of 4. Primal Scream also increases duration of lasting attacks (spores, umbra, primal scream) Carapace armor gain raised to 15/level.
Fade: 65 resources/3 levels in combat. Health buffed to 250/225. Fade speed raised to 280 units/second. Swipe damage raised to 95. Blink energy usage changed to 7%/blink. Blink now multiplies speed by 4 instead of by 3. Metabolize health gain raised to 25, and energy gain raised to 25%. Acid Rocket damage raised to 60 (1.04 values) with a 5% energy usage increase. Carapace increase raised to 50/level.
Onos: 100 resources/4 levels in combat. Health raised to 950/600. The Onos will now take only 55% damage from all weapons. Carapace increase raised to 125/level. Gore damage raised to 125 vs. marines, and 250 vs. structures. Devour time is halfed. Stomp time raised to 2 seconds. Charge damage raised to 550/second. Charge also does double damage vs. structures.
O Upgrades unchained. This means you can get 1 upgrade for each chamber on the field, however, this may be picked from any chamber category on the field, and you can have any amount of upgrades from that chamber (as long as there are that many different upgrades chambers). So, if the aliens have all 3 chambers, an alien can get 3 defensive, or something like that, upgrades.
O Grenade-launcher cost increased to 20. Grenade launcher damage increased to 175 vs. aliens and 350 vs. structures.
O Hive cost raised to 50 (to make up for the alien buffs)
O Hive build-time raised to 240 seconds (up from 180)
O Hive health raised to 5000 when building starts, and 10000 when building finishes.
O Jetpack Tech cost raised to 50 resources
O Heavy Tech cost raised to 45 resources
So, now all aliens are combat oriented (even the gorgey!), but cost slightly more. The onos ends games. Marines are nerfed. All is good. But this is what I really see happening:
Fixed 183 bugs!
Onos buffed
Jetpacks, HA, HMG, Shotty, GL, hand grenade all buffed
Better players? - Oh sorry realistic requests... *sigh*
And client-side lastinv.
gorge cost lowered to 0... so for the hive you'll need only 40 res (not 50) and for rt only 15 (not 25) and so on... alien ownage on economy...
skulk with 10% more cara and health but with more adren consumption with leap: this is good <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
MT only near obs... OH it's like now... you ask only to build obs then research mt (only 35 res) to have mt only near a piece of forniture that is destoyed after 6 bites? O_o
better lerk (@nolsinker): nice, but without lower cost
on the other hand... i feel b5 is near to perfect balance.
On the marines side (poor marines, it looks everyone loves only aliens <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
I suggest a way to give cata on selected marines pressing a key not dropping catpacks. perhaps with catpacks you'll have a drop of 2% health per second, like in Starcraft. This way you can drop a medpack, but if the marine is cat-packed he'll lose health anyway
Higher research times for sieges, and the ability for sieges to shoot structures in range of an observatory (without having to scan). You'll have to build an obs near siege anyway.
a portable mt tool, cost of 15 res, droppable near armory and with a lower range (not all map, only 50 mt perhaps) and capable of showing structures. It will support teamplay (is a luxury and only one marine sees with it), and perhaps is possible to use only pistol with it.
The possibility to use "recall" - the ability for observatory that now i miss the name choosing the position of spawning - but only near an ip/cc