Longer Games = Better Games?
Burncycle
Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9759Members, NS1 Playtester
Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9759Members, NS1 Playtester
Poll created at Rick's request.
Original thread here: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=80317&hl=' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...topic=80317&hl=</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Hi!
With ongoing betas and releases i noticed a fatal trend with natural selection that i personally dont like (and I am referring only to classic natural selection game style):
Games would just last longer in the past and with versions before v3...
I really enjoyed that longer-lasting gameplay because it would go back and forth and you still had the chance to turn the game against the other party even it was late in the game or even if the enemy seems to be almighty. (public and war)
Now its like that the game is always tipping very very fast to either side.
I noticed that by the following facts:
-If aliens win ... in 90% of the games the 3rd hive isnt fully built and game is ending right before its finished. For what good is that if I never actually use the third hive?
-If marines win...in 90% (and the marines need only to be a little smart) they have HA and are not to be teared down with one hive and a few skulks.... there is not even a little chance for the aliens and they get slaughtered in masses. With the new version this problem is even enhanced and aliens are leaving into the readyroom since its pointless to play on.. there is just no reasonable chance to turn the game to their advantage.
I personally liked the sometimes epic battles when the aliens or marines fighted up to their last moment and life... it was more challenging .....
I am wondering if I am the only person thinking like that... i would be very happy if NS would more move back to that classic gameplay with longer lasting battles.
At the end of the 2 hour match .. even if you lost... cou were thinking: 'wow.. that was a good fight'.... now its like after 15 minutes lost or won 'this was lame... i hope the next game will be more balanced out'.
Any comments are welcome.
Play well
Rick<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Original thread here: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=80317&hl=' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...topic=80317&hl=</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Hi!
With ongoing betas and releases i noticed a fatal trend with natural selection that i personally dont like (and I am referring only to classic natural selection game style):
Games would just last longer in the past and with versions before v3...
I really enjoyed that longer-lasting gameplay because it would go back and forth and you still had the chance to turn the game against the other party even it was late in the game or even if the enemy seems to be almighty. (public and war)
Now its like that the game is always tipping very very fast to either side.
I noticed that by the following facts:
-If aliens win ... in 90% of the games the 3rd hive isnt fully built and game is ending right before its finished. For what good is that if I never actually use the third hive?
-If marines win...in 90% (and the marines need only to be a little smart) they have HA and are not to be teared down with one hive and a few skulks.... there is not even a little chance for the aliens and they get slaughtered in masses. With the new version this problem is even enhanced and aliens are leaving into the readyroom since its pointless to play on.. there is just no reasonable chance to turn the game to their advantage.
I personally liked the sometimes epic battles when the aliens or marines fighted up to their last moment and life... it was more challenging .....
I am wondering if I am the only person thinking like that... i would be very happy if NS would more move back to that classic gameplay with longer lasting battles.
At the end of the 2 hour match .. even if you lost... cou were thinking: 'wow.. that was a good fight'.... now its like after 15 minutes lost or won 'this was lame... i hope the next game will be more balanced out'.
Any comments are welcome.
Play well
Rick<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
I guess I'm really hardcore then, but I love the long games when you can't easily tell who's going to win and when you think you have beaten the enemy and are overconfident they come back and beat you.
I've always loved long games, and this idea the dev team has been having about "short = good" is one of the reasons why I stopped playing NS so much.
Its time for a paradigm shift, back to 30 min+ games. Those were the fun ones.
Edit: Post 600, w00t! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
What I do know is that NS needs less <span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>LING RUSH</span></span>, and more strategy... because in my opinion that's what NS has turned into. A version of starcraft where the only goal is to spam the same old tech tree as fast as possible (faster than your opponent) and overwhelm him. Perfect for clanmatches, since the fastest players are also the most skilled ones, however for public games it sucks. It's also the main reason why I quit playing starcraft, which was a great game too, but got monotonous after a while since it all revolved around the same 'strat'.
I've always loved long games, and this idea the dev team has been having about "short = good" is one of the reasons why I stopped playing NS so much.
Its time for a paradigm shift, back to 30 min+ games. Those were the fun ones.
Edit: Post 600, w00t! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yo da queen now weggy <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> rawr.
<!--QuoteBegin-Avenger-X+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Avenger-X)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->bring back the ways of old where epic long WARS were fought, not battles <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hell yea! (that's a nice quote)
<span style='font-size:6pt;line-height:100%'>*** btw didn't Flaya say he <i>didn't</i> want another starcraft when he made NS back in like 1.0? ***</span>
compared to this, unchained is nothing to me. i dont even care if they scrap that idea.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Generally:
- Long games (1 Hour [or more])
If you screw up somewhere within the first 10 minutes of the game (which almost always happens to both sides), you have 50 [or more] minutes to correct it. Very forgiving for not protecting that resource node when it was under attack. [Very allowing for a long-term strategy to be developed by both sides. A "relaxed" feel to the game when playing; no more "get over there NOW or ELSE!"]
- Short games (20 minutes [or generally under 1 hour])
If you screw up somewhere within the first 10 minutes of the game (which almost always happens to both sides), you have only 10 minutes to correct it (instead of the long game's 50 [or more].) Very unforgiving for not protecting that resource node when it was under attack. [short term strategies and quick execution of widely known AND used strategies (skulk rush; DMS; tech to HA/JP; weapons 1 first; shogun rush; etc) are the norm; this feels like COMBAT for goodness sakes... Also, lots of stress along the lines of "Get over there NOW or ELSE!"] <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
things in [,]'s have been added from the original quote to "flesh it out" more, to make it more understandable.
compared to this, unchained is nothing to me. i dont even care if they scrap that idea. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hear ya man. I came to NS from TFC and I love it not just because it was all SciFi horror like, but because it was <i>different</i>. It wasn't just another team deathmatch game. (yes CS, DoD, HoE, TFC, Halo, UT, etc. are all TeamDM) Team DM games don't have a whole lot of depth and are really fun because of how fast the round go. Combat made me cringe because was auspiciously close to team DM with quick little rounds.
Also the heart of any FPS game is not in the locked clan servers of the elite, it's in the masses of the noob-dom the <i>public</i> server. With all of the nifty tracking features on Steam you should have realized this by now. You take a chance you could be playign with or against total noob or idiots but hey if they're on the enemy team then you can own then with your "skillzors" and have people admire (or hate if you are being an arse) you. Besides I know serveral clan people who adore long games in NS.
NS is different, no need ot be ashamed ot try to "fit in." Stand out. Have some pride in the game's uniqueness. A 50-50 FPS::RTS is an amazing idea. Kudos to whoever came up with it, you rock.
Also, a couple months ago I played 1.04 and it was awesome with long games (you know, when bry made a steam version?)
But the disadvantage is that Clan Games would last much longer which isnt really good.
We must find a good balance between War and Pub Gamelength.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->this does not count the cases where the aliens/marines turtle outside the enemy base without attacking to kill).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no reason a game should last between 30 minutes and an hour and a half if this is not going on...
Not everyone has the time nor the patience to sit in a game for an hour + while absolutely nothing happens.
The only map these "wars" took place were on ns_nothing... And that was simply because of the map's structure and the fact that neither team could ever finish off the others.
Very seldomly will a game that goes beyond the 30 minute mark actually be fun for 3/4 of the people in that server.
But the disadvantage is that Clan Games would last much longer which isnt really good.
We must find a good balance between War and Pub Gamelength. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
perhaps make a cvar?
ie. Clanmode 1
it would activate all the cvars that the whole clan scene finds acceptable. because frankly, i couldnt care less about the clan scene. i know it sounds harsh, but if the clans died, i wouldnt care. to me, ns has, and always will be, about the general public. even if some are complete n00blets.
That is your opinion which I respect, but I have a right to disagree. Especially when you start to BS others...
First, pehaps I have played many more games than you in the older versions, but I don't like quick CS style rounds even if the so-called "brat clans" like them.
I myself have made numerous comebacks in 1.0 and 2.0 both marine and alien. So you are quite incorrect on that one mate and no I'm not kidding. Perhaps you have always played with less intelligent people?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There is no reason a game should last between 30 minutes and an hour and a half if this is not going on...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why? I agree that a grid lock might be boring if you aren't trying. (which makes me want to jump to the conclusion that you are one of those lazy marines everyone hates) But when the battle get's to be a raging intense firefight with rapid exchange of territory and not clear victor in sight then yes, to me and other I have met, think this is fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not everyone has the time nor the patience to sit in a game for an hour<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok... Laf, then don't play NS n00b. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Adios
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The only map these "wars" took place were on ns_nothing... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
um no... I have had many an "epic war" with my British friends on the ol' Team Fun's Alergic Reaction server on WON on serveral maps. ns_tanith and ns_hera propably had more.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And that was simply because of the map's structure and the fact that neither team could ever finish off the others.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it was balanced and everyone (except you obviously) was trying their hardest.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Very seldomly will a game that goes beyond the 30 minute mark actually be fun for 3/4 of the people in that server.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey punk! Don't make up numbers. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Actually the poll is proving exactly the opposite. There is a clear difference between making an opinion and BS the public with false info and you just crossed it buddy.
Rite ladies? <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Rite ladies? <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ROFLCOPTER!
hehehe n1 m8! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> u = da man
Here's one real quotation from my best friend's older brother:
*Chris's bro hitting on chick*
Chick: Sorry I only date guys with 10" co.cks.
Bro: Well I'm sorry too then because I'm not cutting off 2" for you.
~edit~
arg dang word filterage I shake my fist at thee!
seriously, CO is for short games, NS should be for long ones.
In all, in all of the NS history, back in 2.01 days, BEST BATTLE EVER!!!!
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Actually I think some people are voting no <i>just because they can.</i> They just want to prove that they can be a smart arse in public, which seem immature to me but hey at least we are making the votes fair. <span style='color:yellow'>It's obvious that the people who care about NS want it and that's what really matters so I'm not really worried.</span> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And if you ever get bored while playing a long game filled with battles (not a drawn out victory with turret farms, turtles and/or laming up the map) then what makes you think a new game will be any more fun for you? Just get away from the computer for a while if you've been on too long....some of us should take that advice anyway <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
lol. So true. ><
I do think it's funny how there was only one person who posted a no reply and he has to start BS-ing at the end of it to make a point since his generalizations were stated like facts when they weren't. I don't feel sorry that I cross-examined his opinion.
*yawn*
well I'll check on this thing tomarrow, gnite. Hopefully after this the dev team will include it as part of there mission objectives.
"Honk. Honk. Mission statement." -- 3rd Rock From the Sun
Adios soldiers.
<b><span style='color:red'>x5</span></b>
YES MY GOOD MAN, YEEEESSS. I SO miss the days on 2.0 when they had like 3 hour stand offs. One of my favorite things to do in old Team fun was having Jomil comm in NS_Lost, he'd relocate us into a little corridor behind Alpha hive, and we would last for hours like that, even if trapped and had no res nodes. Wht we would do is stack the mines ontop of the little hallway for an onos trap, which like insta killed any onos, then we'd make our way out with shotties gotten from res from kills, and adventully maybe even win.
Imho! <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> Do I know you?! When I'm not name-character#-disciminated (like on forums like this one) I go by the name of <b>x5</b>. Does that ring a bell perhaps? Or how about my partner-in-crime ZXNet?
here I get pic:
{pics are a bit large}
<a href='http://www.xzianthia.net/onos_power1.jpg' target='_blank'>sample</a>
<a href='http://www.xzianthia.net/onos_power2.jpg' target='_blank'>sample</a>
<a href='http://www.xzianthia.net/onos_power3.jpg' target='_blank'>sample</a>
<a href='http://www.xzianthia.net/onos_power4.jpg' target='_blank'>sample</a>
Wow I must have run into that guy sometime I bet because I was like on that server all the time in spring '04. Small world.
Ok I go to bed for real now, right after I get of phone with friend and work more on my Xzianthia drawings. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> (Wonder if XZNet is also on this forum somewhere...)
Edit: typos