Turrets and offense chambers
PriNcE_oF_SpAcE
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3392Members
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3392Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Idea for balancing...</div>ok I know this has been brought up before(but that's just a sign that something is actually wrong)
secondly plz. don't start flaming me telling to play the aliens the right way...I'm already pretty confident with the aliens and it's not because that I'm new that I can't cope, but it's just a shame(and lame) that it is turret spamming the whole map, that make the marines victorious and not the marines themselves....also this is not a flame post but constructive criticism...so plz. keep the flames away from this post.
ok...now I will propose some changes that can be done both alien and marine turrets to make it more balanced...you can combine the solutions in anyway you want...group soem of them or just pick one(I don't care as long as this issue is adressed)
oh...and bear in mind that I'm no coder and such, so I don't know how difficult it will be to implement some of these things(although looking at what the devs. managed so far it doesn't seem like a problem)
Marine turret:
1) highten cost further, to lesten turret spam(I've played with unmodyfied resorces and the marines still managed to spam the whole map)
2) make a limit for turrets in one area(max 4-6) or max number of turrets per. turret factory(upgrade may also give a couple extra)...and keeping with the game world you could always say that too many turrets would interfere with eachothers censory system(like flying multiple models planes)
3) lessen the damage/rate of fire/ hp
4) lessen reaction time(turrets turn slower)
5) turrets can overheat and need a couple of secs for cooldown and being able to fire again
6) limit turrets sight...instead of having 360 degrees of sight limit it to 180 or 45(like in TFC)...this way good alien players can outwit turrets(makes vents far more effective), and it takes a little more efforts for the marines to tactically place turrets...this also goes for the vertical sight range, upon reading the manual I figured that one way to get past turrets would be to crawl over them, but although the devs. already limited the turrets vertical sight...there are not an insane amount of high ceilings in any of the maps to really do this trick...I succeeded somewhat but with multiple turrets it's way to much of an effort compared to what you get out of it.(btw this is the change I would like to see the most)
Alien offense chamber...yeah I've heard it before place them the right places and web the #### ot of everything...even if you do this the alien offense chamber is far to useless...so here is the proposed changes to the offense chamber:
1) highten damage/rate of fire/ accuracy/ hp/ projectile speed...the offense chamber is far to useless any marine who can find just a little tad of cover can kill one of these..even with pistol or lmg in a couple of secs.(pop up shoot, hide, popup shoot , hide etc.) (I would prefer if both damage and the projectile speed was opgraded)
2) give them slow regeneration(even without defense chamber...just slower)
3) give them leech attack(perhaps an advnaced upgrade or need so and so hives...or make it standard, it's up to the devs)...for every successfull attack they make add the damage to theire own hp
4) give them a vicious melee attack....that will almost instantly kill any marine dumb enough to get up close on these things
5) instead of simply dealing damage to marines when a successful attack is made...make some side effects. like slowing the marine ...make the marine dizzy(like the TFC conconsion(sp?) grenade) or blackened screen...this will make the web traps and hidden offense chambers far more effective since the marine will be far more disoriented and won't be able to get out of the way as fast...again keeping with the story of the game, it would be quite natural to assume that the spores that the offense fires have some sort of infectious bacteria in them.(hence dizzyness and so on)
6) giving them a cloaked abilitie so that marines wil first notice them when they have begun firing(sort of like the lurker in starcraft)or with the scanenr sweep or the other normal stuff that can detect cloaked...make this some sor of advanced upgrade...need so and so hives etc.(maybe limit it to the blurry outline(lvl 2))
7) considering how much(if any) you improve the offense chamber...you might wanna consider making af limit of offense chambers in one area aswell...keeping with the story perhaps ther's only so and so much bacteria in one area to support and provide energy to so and so many offense chambers.
all in all I think there needs to be some changes with the defensive structures of each race to prevent spamming the whole map with these....because it's really lame that some auto defense does more work and a is larger factor in being victorious than the player controlled marines and aliens.
plz. do comment...but don't flame
secondly plz. don't start flaming me telling to play the aliens the right way...I'm already pretty confident with the aliens and it's not because that I'm new that I can't cope, but it's just a shame(and lame) that it is turret spamming the whole map, that make the marines victorious and not the marines themselves....also this is not a flame post but constructive criticism...so plz. keep the flames away from this post.
ok...now I will propose some changes that can be done both alien and marine turrets to make it more balanced...you can combine the solutions in anyway you want...group soem of them or just pick one(I don't care as long as this issue is adressed)
oh...and bear in mind that I'm no coder and such, so I don't know how difficult it will be to implement some of these things(although looking at what the devs. managed so far it doesn't seem like a problem)
Marine turret:
1) highten cost further, to lesten turret spam(I've played with unmodyfied resorces and the marines still managed to spam the whole map)
2) make a limit for turrets in one area(max 4-6) or max number of turrets per. turret factory(upgrade may also give a couple extra)...and keeping with the game world you could always say that too many turrets would interfere with eachothers censory system(like flying multiple models planes)
3) lessen the damage/rate of fire/ hp
4) lessen reaction time(turrets turn slower)
5) turrets can overheat and need a couple of secs for cooldown and being able to fire again
6) limit turrets sight...instead of having 360 degrees of sight limit it to 180 or 45(like in TFC)...this way good alien players can outwit turrets(makes vents far more effective), and it takes a little more efforts for the marines to tactically place turrets...this also goes for the vertical sight range, upon reading the manual I figured that one way to get past turrets would be to crawl over them, but although the devs. already limited the turrets vertical sight...there are not an insane amount of high ceilings in any of the maps to really do this trick...I succeeded somewhat but with multiple turrets it's way to much of an effort compared to what you get out of it.(btw this is the change I would like to see the most)
Alien offense chamber...yeah I've heard it before place them the right places and web the #### ot of everything...even if you do this the alien offense chamber is far to useless...so here is the proposed changes to the offense chamber:
1) highten damage/rate of fire/ accuracy/ hp/ projectile speed...the offense chamber is far to useless any marine who can find just a little tad of cover can kill one of these..even with pistol or lmg in a couple of secs.(pop up shoot, hide, popup shoot , hide etc.) (I would prefer if both damage and the projectile speed was opgraded)
2) give them slow regeneration(even without defense chamber...just slower)
3) give them leech attack(perhaps an advnaced upgrade or need so and so hives...or make it standard, it's up to the devs)...for every successfull attack they make add the damage to theire own hp
4) give them a vicious melee attack....that will almost instantly kill any marine dumb enough to get up close on these things
5) instead of simply dealing damage to marines when a successful attack is made...make some side effects. like slowing the marine ...make the marine dizzy(like the TFC conconsion(sp?) grenade) or blackened screen...this will make the web traps and hidden offense chambers far more effective since the marine will be far more disoriented and won't be able to get out of the way as fast...again keeping with the story of the game, it would be quite natural to assume that the spores that the offense fires have some sort of infectious bacteria in them.(hence dizzyness and so on)
6) giving them a cloaked abilitie so that marines wil first notice them when they have begun firing(sort of like the lurker in starcraft)or with the scanenr sweep or the other normal stuff that can detect cloaked...make this some sor of advanced upgrade...need so and so hives etc.(maybe limit it to the blurry outline(lvl 2))
7) considering how much(if any) you improve the offense chamber...you might wanna consider making af limit of offense chambers in one area aswell...keeping with the story perhaps ther's only so and so much bacteria in one area to support and provide energy to so and so many offense chambers.
all in all I think there needs to be some changes with the defensive structures of each race to prevent spamming the whole map with these....because it's really lame that some auto defense does more work and a is larger factor in being victorious than the player controlled marines and aliens.
plz. do comment...but don't flame
Comments
Wait untill its fixed before you insist the turrets are unbalanced.
In this version, yes, in the correct version, no.
I know that meddling server ops can modify the resource settings to make things rather insane, but is there a bug that affects normal games?
because the resource system is messed up right now (and being fixed), and is making things unbalanced - we should change the things that are unbalanced ...?
Ok, then what happens when the resource model is fixed? You think everything will be peachy-kean?
I don't know the specifics Turtle, I'm not Flayra. All I know is that it <b>is being fixed</b>. I wish people would stop thinking hes done with NS now ...
because the resource system is messed up right now (and being fixed), and is making things unbalanced - we should change the things that are unbalanced ...?
quote]
no I'm saying that there are a reason that people complain about balancing issues...silver your running around making it look like it's wrong of people to comment on the curent balance issues...and that it's not unbalanced becuase it will get fixed in the next vers...but hey it's good to hear if it's already getting worked on fixing this...but I would like to know like turtle what is messed up with the resource system...as I said I'm pretty sure I saw turret spamming on unmodified servers
in any case I think that the ideas I gave are rather good...(especially I would really really like to see a limit on turrets sights)without leaving the marines totally defenseless...
also silver you gotta admit that offense chambers aren't a match for any marine clever enough to fire his gun....the times I've played as a marine I've never had any problems with dealing with offense chambers(except when my comm. didn't know how to drop ammo)
I've got an idea...how about reading the first post. not to sound rude but it helps alot if you read what other people write before posting...so that people won't repeat what has already been said(especially with this forum displaying so few post at a time) although it's nice to see other people who think this change is needed
hehe I didn't really comment on the resource system at all...also as I said this is not to flame the devs or anything....but is rather constructive...
and even with the resource system getting fixed there are some of these things I would like to see inplemented anyways...uuuh did I mention the turrets range of sight? <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
I think this would be a great idea since it requires alot more effort from the marines to place their turrets effectively...right now they can just spam the middle of their base...with the turrets turning 360 degrees they can defend everything.
also again with the resource system fixed(is that for both sides or only marine? and what will be fixed?) offense chambers still needs to be boosted in some way...if the resource fix is for both alien and marine...the alien will just get punished even more, if they can't afford to place many offense chamber(many are needed to make them slightly dangerous)
again it wasn't my attention to make anyone sick...
I love this mod...but there need to be some tweaks to the defesive structures of each race...