<!--QuoteBegin-Cataclysmic Desires+Oct 11 2004, 09:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cataclysmic Desires @ Oct 11 2004, 09:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Alright, I'm still trying to figure out if me personally am hurting my team or not. I'd say I'm above average in skill level (I'll let you be the real judge of that) and typically when there is a siege situation I just keep rushing in (as skulk). Now I view this tactic in two ways
1.) I just keep giving them res everytime I die 2.) The war of attrition... I assist in slowly wearing them down.
However, it seems that view #2 only holds true if there are other skulks assisting in wearing the rine force down. And view #1 hold true if I'm one of a few (or the only). If I am one of a few (or the only) should I still be running in... in hopes of luring teammates?
You will typically see me with probably the highest death count because I strongly believe in the idea of causing attrition, just constantly pounding on them. But is it to no avail, if other teammates don't help? Or should I be more conservative... trying to save my life, prevent 2 res for rines, and allow them to take more of the map? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> it depends actually. if u r good enough to be getting a few kills every time u rush in as skulk, then u would be getting a rather large res pool.
and with that becoming a lerk really helps when marines are trying to defend sieges.
but if u don't have the res or the marines r too good that u r just feeding them then don't just wait around doing nothing. harrassing them (don't always try to get kills) by para and trying to lure marines into an ambush is always nice.
Have your fades tag team the guard(s) in marine start, which will either allow the fades to destroy important tech buildings (adv. armory, arms lab, etc..) or force marines at the siege base to phase back and help defend, letting the skulks have an easier time breaking through and take down the sieges/phase.
If by luring 3 marines down a side passage and in dying you've allowed 1 or 2 fades to blink past without a scratch..... I'd say that longterm you did good.
Deaths are pretty acceptable if your teammates are covering you. Some people won't charge a room unless someone goes in first. First person in usually dies. If you're always the first guy in then you'll have a lot of deaths but you'll also have initiated every major rush.
Also, remember that NS is not now, nor ever has been a game which revolved around K:D ratios. Team games are all about the team gain. Don't fall into the trap of thinking anything else, otherwise you turn into the smacktard who goes early fade and hides in a vent because he might get worse than, gasp, 50/50 ratio of K:D
In clan matches, if u did rather well defending ur RTs and taking down thiers/killing some marins u will have a fade before/about the same time as a second hive. They usually start sieging the second hive because the main hive is very hard to infiltrate and spawning skulks will have to run less.
When u get a fade or two there will be around 2-3 skulks free to kill thier RTs and scout ur hives (both main and second)/scout chokepoins (topo and west comes to mind) reporting to the fades and lerk (if any) and they will engage them.
If u find someone building PG/TF outside a hive/by a dbl location ur entire team will know about it and prolly stop it.
If u had a bad early game u will get a late fade and hive, then it will be harder to defend a push with siege even if they go to ur starting hive.
On pub the marins almost never is organized enough to pg (they rather hump ther armory) and its rahter easy to get a siege spot down. But if they manage to get siege up u have to decide if u have a chance to take it down or kill their rts/try base rush. Hunt RTs should only be done if they sieging ur second hive and u have a fade comming.
I think you should allways have 1 skulk eating rt`s while marine siege. Marines are completely blind to anything else during that time and they just notice they have 3rts. Then you can quite easily get down that siege(no guns)
Another usefull, maybe cheep thing..... gorge rush in and drop as many ocs on their siege spot as you can. With the friendly fire from the sieges killing off the heavys you should have alot easier time. Also, is it worth it to have a gore/2 heal the hive or is the differance in siege time negligible.
True the onos is right but Gecko is bang on the money here.
If you're backing up an onos, you cant see squat. All you know is that you've stopped moving backwards. It could be a wall, a gorge, a marine, anything. Keep the path clear for Mr. Onos.
Another way to look at it is that an Onos who REVERSES can still stomp towards his pursuers, and this means cheap kills for anyone IN FRONT. Remember most people are going to be shooting at the Onos, so go in first and clear a path with xeno, or fly in with a quick leap and hand out the bitespam.
If you're a support gorge, have your DC outside the marine base, in a nice spot which does NOT obstruct any routes, and then camp beside them with Healspray at the ready. When it gets to the point where people are going in and noone's coming out (and they're not dying...) then hightail it in there and break out the chamber spam. An Onos is pretty irreplaceable if he's midgame, and if he dies then YOU have wasted the team's hard earned res (we are assuming its a midgame onos and not some tactically challenged res hoarder, thx).
Yes, even a tiny skulk can block an Onos. Give the big guy space, and if he backs up, you get your hide out of there.
If you have one hive, and the marines are sieging, that's a sign that you have allready lost. It doesn't matter whether you attack the siege or MS, because you will lose anyway.
If you have more than one hive, attacking the siege is a good idea, but attacking MS is even better.
- You have two hives. Losing one hive means you lose 50 res at the most.
- They have one base. Bases are much more res than a hive, and yes they can relocate, but when you compare the loss of a base to the loss of a hive, the aliens win.
Offcourse any decent commander will beacon his marines back, because they don't want to lose their base. That gives you the opportunity you need to kill off the siege spot.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why attacking marine start is often a better idea than blindly throwing your corpse at a siegespot.
Allways hit them where it hurts most (and where you run the least risk of dieing).
I'ld suggest baiting. Have a fade (or feasably a lerk, though the lerk has less chance of survival) blink past the marines. Most of the time they will all turn around and attempt to kill the fade. At that exact moment 2-3 skulks rushing in will slaughter them, as they are paying attention to the fade and generally won't notice you.
And a fade killing the advanced armory will tempt the commander to beacon. If he does, it'll give you those few seconds so that you can kill the PG and then decimate the siege base. If he doesn't, he's going to lose his advanced armory and after that a whole lot more.
Lerks are very good at taking down siege bases. Why? Gas the crap out of the area while your buddies go in for da kills. You may, or may not get a lot of kills, but that doesn't matter, now does it? If you have 2 hives, spore first, then umbra the siege base as your buddies go in, AND umbra your buddy's exit. That way, marines are constantly taking dmg by spores, while your buddies are protected by umbra as they attack. When the fades retreat for health, they are protected from rear shots, as well...since you are umbra-ing their exit point.
If they are HA, just use umbra everywhere.
They exausted all of their resources at that siege base, and eventually crumbled. Seriously, they went through about 30 HAs and lost every single one by 5 skulks, 1 lerk, 1 onos, and 1 fade. Skulks did an awesome job of keeping the constant pressure on them even after dying.
After that, we just charged their base. Very little defense. I ended up with 20 kills and 5 deaths as a lerk.
why will u lose anyway if u only have one hive and they are sieging? if u are in this position u just wait to die because u r sure u would lose the game?
what happens to the spore from lerks or the fade who harrasses while marines r building or just the skulks overunning the marines? the aliens DO have a chance and if they successfully destroy the sieges then the aliens are to the advantage.
and most commanders put pgs when sieging..what if u go in ms and marines phase back, kill u, and phase back to continue sieging?
oh and btw LOTS of people just forget to heal the hive even while they are sieging u, it will help the hive stay alive longer and give ur team more time to take the sieges down.
Comments
I'd say I'm above average in skill level (I'll let you be the real judge of that) and typically when there is a siege situation I just keep rushing in (as skulk). Now I view this tactic in two ways
1.) I just keep giving them res everytime I die
2.) The war of attrition... I assist in slowly wearing them down.
However, it seems that view #2 only holds true if there are other skulks assisting in wearing the rine force down. And view #1 hold true if I'm one of a few (or the only). If I am one of a few (or the only) should I still be running in... in hopes of luring teammates?
You will typically see me with probably the highest death count because I strongly believe in the idea of causing attrition, just constantly pounding on them. But is it to no avail, if other teammates don't help? Or should I be more conservative... trying to save my life, prevent 2 res for rines, and allow them to take more of the map? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
it depends actually. if u r good enough to be getting a few kills every time u rush in as skulk, then u would be getting a rather large res pool.
and with that becoming a lerk really helps when marines are trying to defend sieges.
but if u don't have the res or the marines r too good that u r just feeding them then don't just wait around doing nothing. harrassing them (don't always try to get kills) by para and trying to lure marines into an ambush is always nice.
Deaths are pretty acceptable if your teammates are covering you. Some people won't charge a room unless someone goes in first. First person in usually dies. If you're always the first guy in then you'll have a lot of deaths but you'll also have initiated every major rush.
Also, remember that NS is not now, nor ever has been a game which revolved around K:D ratios. Team games are all about the team gain. Don't fall into the trap of thinking anything else, otherwise you turn into the smacktard who goes early fade and hides in a vent because he might get worse than, gasp, 50/50 ratio of K:D
When u get a fade or two there will be around 2-3 skulks free to kill thier RTs and scout ur hives (both main and second)/scout chokepoins (topo and west comes to mind) reporting to the fades and lerk (if any) and they will engage them.
If u find someone building PG/TF outside a hive/by a dbl location ur entire team will know about it and prolly stop it.
If u had a bad early game u will get a late fade and hive, then it will be harder to defend a push with siege even if they go to ur starting hive.
On pub the marins almost never is organized enough to pg (they rather hump ther armory) and its rahter easy to get a siege spot down. But if they manage to get siege up u have to decide if u have a chance to take it down or kill their rts/try base rush. Hunt RTs should only be done if they sieging ur second hive and u have a fade comming.
Marines are completely blind to anything else during that time and they just notice they have 3rts. Then you can quite easily get down that siege(no guns)
Also, is it worth it to have a gore/2 heal the hive or is the differance in siege time negligible.
Also it means the gorge is left without res, which means should the hive go down the game is over.
If you've some DC and a gorge spamming heal its pretty helpful, but at 2 hives you probably want to be bilebombing any potential siege.
erm.....sorry....
skulks/gorges Go in <b>after</b> the onos RUNS AWAY. do the same for fades. this is way mroe effective. (unless that higher lifeform says otherwise)
If you're backing up an onos, you cant see squat. All you know is that you've stopped moving backwards. It could be a wall, a gorge, a marine, anything. Keep the path clear for Mr. Onos.
Another way to look at it is that an Onos who REVERSES can still stomp towards his pursuers, and this means cheap kills for anyone IN FRONT. Remember most people are going to be shooting at the Onos, so go in first and clear a path with xeno, or fly in with a quick leap and hand out the bitespam.
If you're a support gorge, have your DC outside the marine base, in a nice spot which does NOT obstruct any routes, and then camp beside them with Healspray at the ready. When it gets to the point where people are going in and noone's coming out (and they're not dying...) then hightail it in there and break out the chamber spam. An Onos is pretty irreplaceable if he's midgame, and if he dies then YOU have wasted the team's hard earned res (we are assuming its a midgame onos and not some tactically challenged res hoarder, thx).
Yes, even a tiny skulk can block an Onos. Give the big guy space, and if he backs up, you get your hide out of there.
If you have more than one hive, attacking the siege is a good idea, but attacking MS is even better.
- You have two hives. Losing one hive means you lose 50 res at the most.
- They have one base. Bases are much more res than a hive, and yes they can relocate, but when you compare the loss of a base to the loss of a hive, the aliens win.
Offcourse any decent commander will beacon his marines back, because they don't want to lose their base. That gives you the opportunity you need to kill off the siege spot.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why attacking marine start is often a better idea than blindly throwing your corpse at a siegespot.
Allways hit them where it hurts most (and where you run the least risk of dieing).
And a fade killing the advanced armory will tempt the commander to beacon. If he does, it'll give you those few seconds so that you can kill the PG and then decimate the siege base. If he doesn't, he's going to lose his advanced armory and after that a whole lot more.
If they are HA, just use umbra everywhere.
They exausted all of their resources at that siege base, and eventually crumbled. Seriously, they went through about 30 HAs and lost every single one by 5 skulks, 1 lerk, 1 onos, and 1 fade. Skulks did an awesome job of keeping the constant pressure on them even after dying.
After that, we just charged their base. Very little defense. I ended up with 20 kills and 5 deaths as a lerk.
gg, aliens win.
what happens to the spore from lerks or the fade who harrasses while marines r building or just the skulks overunning the marines? the aliens DO have a chance and if they successfully destroy the sieges then the aliens are to the advantage.
and most commanders put pgs when sieging..what if u go in ms and marines phase back, kill u, and phase back to continue sieging?
oh and btw LOTS of people just forget to heal the hive even while they are sieging u, it will help the hive stay alive longer and give ur team more time to take the sieges down.