2nd Presidential Debate
reasa
Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">Who won?</div> Well Bush needed to make a come back and personally I think he did a very good job, Kerry seemed to be off balance through allot of the debate, Bush came off much stronger. When the issue of abortion came up Kerry seemed to fall apart and had some very Bush-like stutters.
Of course if you look at <a href='http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/GT1=5472' target='_blank'>the online polls</a> Kerry wins by a landslide, as did Edwards...as did Kerry the first time...come on people get some lives and quit clicking the Kerry button 100 times. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well what do you guys think?
Of course if you look at <a href='http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/GT1=5472' target='_blank'>the online polls</a> Kerry wins by a landslide, as did Edwards...as did Kerry the first time...come on people get some lives and quit clicking the Kerry button 100 times. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well what do you guys think?
Comments
Oh ya, and go Kerry
Kerry: 2
Bush: "It's hard work!"
I didn't watch the first debate, so I can't compare, however Kerry did seem to be quite offensive. Bush seemed to fall back on his 'flip flop' cover a little bit too much, while Kerry would back up his ideas with examples/reason.
One thing I didn't like about either of them was they talked about each other way too much, they just talked about each other and what they did wrong.
Wanna buy some wood?
Wanna buy some wood? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is what really pisses me off, no one is ever going to start thinking of the internet as a reliable source for reliable information if this kind of stuff keeps happening. The polls are clearly biased and incorrect, and I think we'll see that this weekend when much more accurate polling can be done.
Seriously though what was Kerry thinking making up that wood thing lol?
EDIT: Er, Bush... Go Bush. Yeah.
Are you kidding, "need some wood" is the next "who let the dogs out" just you wait. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<i>You screwed that joke up like Bush wanted wood.</i>
<i>You screwed that joke up like Bush wanted wood.</i> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Umm I'm not sure what you mean, but to clarify, I took the joke at face value in context.
er... see what i mean
Of course if you look at <a href='http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/GT1=5472' target='_blank'>the online polls</a> Kerry wins by a landslide, as did Edwards...as did Kerry the first time...come on people get some lives and quit clicking the Kerry button 100 times. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well what do you guys think? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's amazing watching you guys post after the debates... it's like we watched two totally different events.
Kerry won again, although it wasn't as handsome a win as the first debate.
Bush tried to be overly aggressive, given his feeble prior performance. I thought he actually came off as very rude, and childish. He interrupted the moderator at one point and stood up a few times for a rebuttle before Kerry had even finished talking.
Bush tried to pin the "flip-flop" thing again on Kerry, and I think Kerry did an excellent job of addressing those issues.
"Bush-like stutters" what does that tell you about your candidate of choice when you can coin a new phrase after his ineptitude ?
As for the abortion issue, I think Kerry chose his words carefully, and didnt just say the first that came to mind unlike Bush.
Kerry won again, although it wasn't as handsome a win as the first debate.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well who "won" remains to be seen, but naturally our previous opinions slant how we view the debate, although I try and put myself in the mindset of an undecided voter when I watch these things. I have no doubt Kerry won the first debate, the VP was a tie, but watching this as objectively as I could I still think Bush won it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bush tried to be overly aggressive, given his feeble prior performance. I thought he actually came off as very rude, and childish. He interrupted the moderator at one point and stood up a few times for a rebuttal before Kerry had even finished talking.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think he came off so much rude as eager to answer and provide rebuttals, especially when Kerry started making some things up.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"Bush-like stutters" what does that tell you about your candidate of choice when you can coin a new phrase after his ineptitude?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well I'm not an idiot I know speaking is hardly something Bush is renowned for, but most people know that and except it, someone’s mastery of the English language alone is a poor thing to judge intelligence from. However I found it unusual when Kerry, who is almost always composed when speaking, had an awkward 7-8 second
"umm...bah" stutter when talking about abortion. Those questions clearly annoyed him, as hard as it is to derive any emotion from his botox filled face.
Anyway, Bush needs to drop the flip-flop thing, or Kerry needs to simply turn it back around and point at the number of times BUSH has flip-flopped. Bush is being a hypocrite and I think everyone's sick of it, and Kerry stopped being flip-floppy a while ago.
Kerry again showed up that he has good potential, kept his composition. He had some hard questions that he answered very well(the abortion thing).
Bush was on the offense alot early on with the flip flopping, but i think he flopped on his face a little with it cuz you could see it wasnt giving impact, he then retreated to a very cautious defense stance and kept with that(much like cheney did D:'). Kerry was fairly balanced through out when it came to offense defense, never to heavy on either but not letting his guard down. He made a great point that bushes tax cuts went to 3 people in the room, himself bush and and the moderator. He also pointed out 2~3 things bush "flipped flopped" on, his drug import thing,the no chiled left behind and a few others.
Bush often mudslinged old catch phrases while Kerry relied on facts every single time. Bush trounced over the moderator several times completely ignoring his follow-up questions in a chance to defend particularly stinging rebuttals from Kerry. And every time, this made Bush's situation worse because Kerry on the other hand, had an elegant reply for everything.
Kerry waited politely for the moderator to finish his questions and he answered every one of them, directly; sometimes looking straight into the camera. Kerry also answered every question from the audience directly, unlike Bush who sidestepped the questions by coming up with a twisted interpretation.
Example: A lady asked "Out of the thousands of decisions you've made during your term, name three mistakes you have made and efforts you have made to fix them". To that Bush says, "I know what shes really talking about. She's talking about the Iraq war and I know it was an unpopular decision, but it was the right decision, period." Now is that really answering the question? He didn't even name much less admit to even ONE mistake!
Bush also tried the "I don't know where to begin" tactic that Cheney used against Edwards as if to downplay the accurate factual replies of his opponent. But the answer that came afterwards made me think, much as was the case with Cheney, "Hmm, you totally missed the point. I guess you really don't know where to begin. Maybe you should have tried to begin somewhere else in the argument."
Kerry answered every single question directly and his answers were understandable and satisfying. Bush came off as brutish and deceitful. I was satisfied with every statement and every rebuttal Kerry made in this second debate. I can hardly say the same for Bush. Bush did better this time staying off his heels but he still lost.
And I don't honestly know what was up with the whole wood mill thing but I understand exactly what Kerry means about rich people using small businesses to reap a tax cut. Bush on the other hand did not choose to challenge Kerry on that concept at all. He could have said, "First of all Mr. Kerry, I don't own a mill but if you want some wood, I know some people that would kindly oblige you. SECOND, let me answer your insinuation about the rich people using small businesses as tax shelters." But no, he didn't enter into that debate at all and instead chose to make a clumsy "Got wood?" joke and leave it at that. Buffoonery...
Kerry clearly won the debate.
John F. Kerry speaks:
"The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country."
- John F. Kerry
"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
- John F. Kerry
"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Governor, and that one word is 'to be prepared'."
- John F. Kerry
"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future."
- John F. Kerry
"The future will be better tomorrow."
- John F. Kerry
"We're going to have the best educated American people in the world."
- John F. Kerry
"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
- John F. Kerry
"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe."
- John F. Kerry
"Public speaking is very easy."
- John F. Kerry
"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls."
- John F. Kerry
"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."
- John F. Kerry
"For NASA, space is still a high priority."
- John F. Kerry
"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children."
- John F. Kerry
"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
- John F. Kerry
"It's time for the human race to enter the solar system."
- John F. Kerry
I'd have to say that Kerry ruined whatever reputation he had for being smarter than Bush. Both bush and kerry are very nervous during the debates, so I can hardly blame them. Both are susceptable to mistakes.
this made his response long and convoluted, but not contrived or confusing to those of us with more than one sentence attention span. Bush immediately said he didnt understand kerry's response, but that he was pro-baby, immediately garnering the love of the pro life crowd. Kerry did the best anyone could hope for against such a question. had he given a clearer answer it wouldve sounded like "Hey lady, the educated people of this country dont care for your religious superstitions" and that wouldntve been a wise choice at all.
I was reminded, very clearly, why 3rd party candidates should have been allowed into these debates. The <a href='http://www.debates.org/' target='_blank'>Commission on Presidential Debates</a> is a joke and their ability to schedule, moderate, and supply proper questions is <insert favorite anti democratic/American/socially acceptable snipe here>! They are doing a disservice to all of us regardless of political ideology.
I spent my night watching Walking Tall. The Rock put the smack down! woot! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Kerry waited politely for the moderator to finish his questions and he answered every one of them, directly; sometimes looking straight into the camera. Kerry also answered every question from the audience directly, unlike Bush who sidestepped the questions by coming up with a twisted interpretation.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kind of like when Kerry got that question about Iran, and then proceeded to attack Bush in Iraq for another minute, before nodding to Iran for all of 15 seconds?
Oh wait, that's not the same at all.
That isn't pledging. For a pledge, you start off by saying "I pledge to..."
At one point, I was really beginning to agree with Kerry. I began to wonder if I were going to have to be in one of those MacSwitch commercials except for politics. He did a good joob.
However, as I was listening his next responses really started to bother me. I began to feel that Kerry's responses came not from his own personal beliefs or opinions but rather from the polling information that was handed to him right before the debate.
It is not a coincidence that every response Kerry makes falls exactly with the majority of public opinion at the time. Normally this public opinion does not change from one side to another in any quick timeline. However when it does is when we get to see Kerry become the windsock of the presidential election. I cannot believe that this man has any core beliefs beside an overwhelming desire to be president.
By any opinions necessary.
John F. Kerry speaks:
"The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country."
- John F. Kerry
"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
- John F. Kerry
"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Governor, and that one word is 'to be prepared'."
- John F. Kerry
"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future."
- John F. Kerry
"The future will be better tomorrow."
- John F. Kerry
"We're going to have the best educated American people in the world."
- John F. Kerry
"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
- John F. Kerry
"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe."
- John F. Kerry
"Public speaking is very easy."
- John F. Kerry
"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls."
- John F. Kerry
"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."
- John F. Kerry
"For NASA, space is still a high priority."
- John F. Kerry
"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children."
- John F. Kerry
"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
- John F. Kerry
"It's time for the human race to enter the solar system."
- John F. Kerry
I'd have to say that Kerry ruined whatever reputation he had for being smarter than Bush. Both bush and kerry are very nervous during the debates, so I can hardly blame them. Both are susceptable to mistakes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Someone's ignorant, but it ain't Kerry . . .
<a href='http://www.snopes.com/quotes/candidate.asp' target='_blank'>pwned.</a>
Oh, and FYI, The first quote is similar to something <i>Bush</i> said.
Sayeth he:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->More and more of our imports come from overseas<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
rofl.
That isn't pledging. For a pledge, you start off by saying "I pledge to..." <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know what's stupider - the pledge posed to Kerry, or your response to it.
Seriously, that's like asking him to make a pledge not to make any new laws.
obviously kerry is playing both sides of the issue here. he wants to dodge the question because he doesn't want to get in trouble with his conservative supporters (the ones that are too disillusioned with Bush to vote for him) and seem like an extreme liberal by flat-out refusing to pledge to not raising taxes, but he clearly wants to leave the door open to future tax increases, because i'm sure that's one of the things he'll be first to address if he's elected (getting rid of Bush's "OMG 1%" tax cuts). there's a career politician for you.
Whether or not that's a healthy thing for government, is a matter for another discussion. But suffice it to say, I think most career politicians are a plague on our country.
*edit* basically the whole of mainstream politics is to appear as moderate as possible before the election, appeal to the broadest groups of people, and once elected, screw over your constituents as much as possible. except where you don't have term limits.