SM3.0 isn't active with any game out today and probably wont be untill the next generation of game engines come out. I wouldn't count on SM3.0 alone when it comes to a 6x00(nv) card or Xx00(ati). Any mid to high end card will suffice. You are looking at compatibility with future operating systems and if it will run HL2 and Doom III nicely than you will be content, BUT an upgrade is inevitable as manufacturers are slowly switching over to PCIE
I'd have to say anyone of the two will last the same time. If nVidia and ATi continues escalating their GFX card war it will mean they will be countering each one of their card at every turn.
Both cards are so close its really just personal preference and what you can get your hands on, + what your budget is at (though the cards are pretty much identically priced. Maybe one will be $20 cheaper or something, but it will be close).
Disregard everything everyone tells you and just get the one that is your personal preference.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Still can't help but suggest the X800 XTPE if you can afford it. Roughly $100 more expensive than the Pro, with a very noticeable speed jump... to being THE fastest consumer-grade video card on the market. Also, given that ATi cards don't need to cut corners to hold the speed crown high (reduced colour calcs, halved occlusion buffering, crap texture compression to save memory bandwidth, conflicting AA routines) like nVidia cards have to, to even attempt to make a ****, the ATi will give you a better image quality overall, especially in the long run, on future games where cutting corners won't be enough to <i>look</i> competative. Add on ATi's TFSAA and superior anisotropic filtering, only taking up ONE SLOT, only requiring one power lead, never having had a 'dustbuster' card... and at least for me, the choice is pretty clear.
Then again... I have to give a few more points to a graphics chip manufacturer that also makes their OWN cards. Shows that they believe in them, rather than foisting off the possibility of losses to third-party manufacturers.
(Oh... and the Catalyst 4.10s are even better than the 4.9s. For those who might try to use problematic drivers as an argument... try an ATi card more advanced than the Radeon 7500. These are at least on par with the Detonators, if not better.)
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-DOOManiac+Oct 15 2004, 10:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ Oct 15 2004, 10:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Both cards are so close its really just personal preference and what you can get your hands on, + what your budget is at (though the cards are pretty much identically priced. Maybe one will be $20 cheaper or something, but it will be close).
Disregard everything everyone tells you and just get the one that is your personal preference.
Yes, that includes this post. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> OMG NOES. NVIDIA IS TEH VINNAR.
...but seriously here, in every test thus far, in every game, period, X800 wins. The tests that have the 6800 win are rigged, somehow. I don't know, I don't ask, all I know is, is that when I've seen someone do it THEMSELVES and have it win in 15 different tests(DOOM 3, Far Cry, CS:S, 3DSMax 2005, Half-Life, Quake 3, Call of Duty, Final Fantasy XI, Tribes Vengeance, UT2k4, UT, Aquamark 2003, BF '42, and Rome Total War.)- though I wouldn't say the margins were that large, I'd still say ATi wins, just because while NVidias drivers get progressively worse(yes, lets bug every game that has any kind of transparency that isn't opengl based!), ATi's, while not as good atm, have been getting progressively better. Hopefully they'll work great soon enough, and who knows, maybe those new drivers fixed more than we knew of <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Caboose, I'm using them right now. Why do you ask? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
They're unsupported, but that's just because the variety of distros and customizations that could have happened would require some serious technical professionals to handle tech support for nubs who use crap distros like Mandrake. And as far as I've found, both from installing the ATi drivers, and reading through the Linux detonator installation sheet.. the ATi ones are easier to compile a custom module for and install. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The only bit that irks me is that I had to swap back to a 32-bit distro, as the Linux 64-bit ATi drivers are still under development. Though they DO have an installer for XP-64.
that was a dirty rotton stab Talesin! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I've had a liking for ATi, but I've used nVidia card's, and from my experience, they've been pretty solid (Riva TNT 2, GeForce 2 Ti). I just wanted to know if Shader Model 3.0 would be an important feature for the next few years, but it seems not, so I'll try for an X800 XT: PE.
Anyways, if money isn't an issue, get an XTPE and pray that Ati figures out how to code decent opengl drivers. 400 bucks and below, get a 6800GT and OC it past ultra speeds~
The rumours going round suggest that SM3.0 will be required or at least heavily featured by the next windows(longhorn). Now this is coming out sometime in 2006.. so how much you care I don't know. Personally, I'd go for the 6800 as the performance difference is now negligible between the two and the 6800 has the 3.0 advantage.
Either one will perform excellently, and I think you'll be happy with either <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
6800GT would be a very economical choice, it outruns the X800Pro practically everywhere. Of all the GT's so far, about 80-85% ran flawlessly at ultra speeds (My own GT runs at near Ultra Extreme speeds <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->).
If you're a rich **** you can always hook yourself up with an 6800Ultra-SLI setup, should keep you warm for the 2 years to come.
As for the middle-way, well, it's a personal choice between the Ultra and the XT really, though XT does win the majority of the tests, but the margin is niligable.
I have an X800 Pro 256mb, and with Cat 4.10, it owns my face. im getting 1k-2k more 3D mark scores than anyone with a 6800. I have 2nd place on the xoxide.com forums, and the guy in first place has an X800 XTPE, and an FX-53 (I have an A64 3800)
I say go with ATI. (My preference is ATI, anyways. All those years of hell with my Geforce 2 MX400 64mb...guh)
<!--QuoteBegin-Sizer+Oct 16 2004, 10:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sizer @ Oct 16 2004, 10:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Talesin spreading FUD as usual.
Anyways, if money isn't an issue, get an XTPE and pray that Ati figures out how to code decent opengl drivers. 400 bucks and below, get a 6800GT and OC it past ultra speeds~ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry for double, had to say something to him.
YOU'RE IN LUCK. ATI recently released Catalyst 4.10 which fixes some of the opengl bugs and memory allocation problems theyve been having with some 256mb cards.
<!--QuoteBegin-funbags+Oct 16 2004, 07:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (funbags @ Oct 16 2004, 07:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have an X800 Pro 256mb, and with Cat 4.10, it owns my face. im getting 1k-2k more 3D mark scores than anyone with a 6800. I have 2nd place on the xoxide.com forums, and the guy in first place has an X800 XTPE, and an FX-53 (I have an A64 3800)
I say go with ATI. (My preference is ATI, anyways. All those years of hell with my Geforce 2 MX400 64mb...guh) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> OK i'm going to be a little skeptic here...
1K-2K more than anyone with a 6800? Is that a Non-Ultra? GT? Ultra? Ultra Extreme? I'll have to assume a Non-Ultra, which is 100$ below the Pro's price range, hardly a comparison. You're also not mentioning, either your score, or the 3DMark generation, frankly, what a waste of forum space.
I've had an nVidia since the beginning of time, none of them ever malfunctioned at all. And ofcourse I could enjoy of nVidia's flawless drivers. Now i'm not being a fanboy here, merely expressing my experiences with nVidia so far. It's quite silly how many people here enjoy acting like an ATi fanboy.
Theres my score. I believe the people getting lower scores than me were using both GT's and Non-ultras. I beleive that the GT is on the same level as the Pro, right?
EDIT: Do you need some Midol? I never trashed Nvidia, or based anything for that matter. I was telling him my experiances with both Nvidia and ATI. I think YOU are a waste of forum space. All 78 posts.
<!--QuoteBegin-funbags+Oct 16 2004, 08:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (funbags @ Oct 16 2004, 08:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Theres my score. I believe the people getting lower scores than me were using both GT's and Non-ultras. I beleive that the GT is on the same level as the Pro, right?
EDIT: Do you need some Midol? I never trashed Nvidia, or based anything for that matter. I was telling him my experiances with both Nvidia and ATI. I think YOU are a waste of forum space. All 78 posts. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> GT's generally score up to 12000. So you are right on, or just below, the GT average. Not quite 1000-2000 above it.
Urgh, you might've realised the second bit wasn't aimed towards you, rather the people that spam the same piece of flame towards nVidia every oppertunaty they get.
Ok then, sorry about my comment. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Im gunna go scan through the score sheet on xoxide to see peoples scores. There is no one over 11800 marks with 3dmark 03 on the boards.
I think a major reason im not getting those marks is because I dont know how to raise my fsb. Its currently set at 200mhz, even though it can go as high as 1ghz (WOOSH CAN YOU SAY WATERCOOLING?!)
EDIT:
Im seeing 1 guy with a gt getting 6k benchmarks. On that note, his drivers were buggered. (So much for reliable drivers?)
Wait! Reading further down, He fixed everything and got a score of 10,000 flat. (He has an athlon 64 3200, though)
2nd EDIT: It was overclocked.
"I would vote the X800XT, because the 6800Ultra is about equal with the X800Pro on similar systems. Benchmarks have shown the X800XT getting higher fps in than the 6800 in many games"- Head admin of xoxideforums.com
<!--QuoteBegin-t20+Oct 16 2004, 04:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (t20 @ Oct 16 2004, 04:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The rumours going round suggest that SM3.0 will be required or at least heavily featured by the next windows(longhorn). Now this is coming out sometime in 2006.. so how much you care I don't know. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I can't imagine SM3.0 being required <i>or</i> heavily featured in Longhorn. I would be surprised if even 0.5% of windows based PC users have an SM3.0 capable card, in two years I'd be shocked if that total hit 10%. Unless nvidia and ati paid massive ammounts of money to ms, I can't see them pandering to such a small demographic.
<!--QuoteBegin-Dr_Shaggy+Oct 16 2004, 02:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dr_Shaggy @ Oct 16 2004, 02:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I can't imagine SM3.0 being required <i>or</i> heavily featured in Longhorn. I would be surprised if even 0.5% of windows based PC users have an SM3.0 capable card, in two years I'd be shocked if that total hit 10%. Unless nvidia and ati paid massive ammounts of money to ms, I can't see them pandering to such a small demographic.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well I can't either <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> There will apparently be a few modes which it will run. The first being the standard win 2000 interface with a few improvements and a dx 7 minimum card. Next there will be a dx9/10 mode, called "Aero" and "Aero Glass". This is where SM 3.0 could possible required or heavily featured, thought that is still rumour and unconfirmed.
Sorry, perhaps I should have been more specific <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well, I was planning on going for an ATi X800Pro, but they're too expensive. I'm more than likely going to get a GeForce 6800 (Not GT, not Ultra) for $270. It seems to be the only next-gen card in the market in a $200-$300 price range.
EDIT: Currently, my planned system costs $1,067.23. If anything, I'd like to drive that price down, because shipping and handling brings it up some $60/$70.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
edited October 2004
Also, /technically/, any card with a hardware T&L unit, and PS2.0 can handle PS3.0 shaders with minor driver revisions to catch and handle the new instructions. All of the silicon is already there.... it's just the same bullcrap nVidia tried to pull with listing 'DirectX 9+' on the boxes. (Given that there IS no DX9+ standard, they were allowed to print it... yet another victory for the marketroids which actually manage to SELL those crap cards to morons. A victory that became hollow when ATi released their next boxes, touting 'DirectX9++!' <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
But then, I guess if you're used to a card that can't even do ACTUAL pixel shader 2.0, that kind of thing would excite you. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ERK! Chrono, look at the X700 series then. They stomp the crap out of the standard 6800s from gaming benchmarks, and run between $200 and 250 (250 for the top-end X700 with 256MB RAM, and a higher-clocked core, which gives the 6800GT a run for its money). The only problem is that they're still making their way out to retail stores at the moment.
Comments
EDIT: While we're talking about me being cheap, I can't run Half-Life 2 on Linux, can I?
I'd have to say anyone of the two will last the same time.
If nVidia and ATi continues escalating their GFX card war it will mean they will be countering each one of their card at every turn.
Disregard everything everyone tells you and just get the one that is your personal preference.
Yes, that includes this post.
Also, given that ATi cards don't need to cut corners to hold the speed crown high (reduced colour calcs, halved occlusion buffering, crap texture compression to save memory bandwidth, conflicting AA routines) like nVidia cards have to, to even attempt to make a ****, the ATi will give you a better image quality overall, especially in the long run, on future games where cutting corners won't be enough to <i>look</i> competative.
Add on ATi's TFSAA and superior anisotropic filtering, only taking up ONE SLOT, only requiring one power lead, never having had a 'dustbuster' card... and at least for me, the choice is pretty clear.
Then again... I have to give a few more points to a graphics chip manufacturer that also makes their OWN cards. Shows that they believe in them, rather than foisting off the possibility of losses to third-party manufacturers.
(Oh... and the Catalyst 4.10s are even better than the 4.9s. For those who might try to use problematic drivers as an argument... try an ATi card more advanced than the Radeon 7500. These are at least on par with the Detonators, if not better.)
Disregard everything everyone tells you and just get the one that is your personal preference.
Yes, that includes this post. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
OMG NOES. NVIDIA IS TEH VINNAR.
...but seriously here, in every test thus far, in every game, period, X800 wins. The tests that have the 6800 win are rigged, somehow. I don't know, I don't ask, all I know is, is that when I've seen someone do it THEMSELVES and have it win in 15 different tests(DOOM 3, Far Cry, CS:S, 3DSMax 2005, Half-Life, Quake 3, Call of Duty, Final Fantasy XI, Tribes Vengeance, UT2k4, UT, Aquamark 2003, BF '42, and Rome Total War.)- though I wouldn't say the margins were that large, I'd still say ATi wins, just because while NVidias drivers get progressively worse(yes, lets bug every game that has any kind of transparency that isn't opengl based!), ATi's, while not as good atm, have been getting progressively better. Hopefully they'll work great soon enough, and who knows, maybe those new drivers fixed more than we knew of <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
i heard that they scrapped that project <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
They're unsupported, but that's just because the variety of distros and customizations that could have happened would require some serious technical professionals to handle tech support for nubs who use crap distros like Mandrake.
And as far as I've found, both from installing the ATi drivers, and reading through the Linux detonator installation sheet.. the ATi ones are easier to compile a custom module for and install. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The only bit that irks me is that I had to swap back to a 32-bit distro, as the Linux 64-bit ATi drivers are still under development. Though they DO have an installer for XP-64.
Anyways, if money isn't an issue, get an XTPE and pray that Ati figures out how to code decent opengl drivers. 400 bucks and below, get a 6800GT and OC it past ultra speeds~
Either one will perform excellently, and I think you'll be happy with either <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you're a rich **** you can always hook yourself up with an 6800Ultra-SLI setup, should keep you warm for the 2 years to come.
As for the middle-way, well, it's a personal choice between the Ultra and the XT really, though XT does win the majority of the tests, but the margin is niligable.
My ATi card melted my proprietary cooling system.
I'd say ATi will last you longer. It's a lot easier to replace vaporized PCI fans then the cooling system on the card itself.
I say go with ATI. (My preference is ATI, anyways. All those years of hell with my Geforce 2 MX400 64mb...guh)
Anyways, if money isn't an issue, get an XTPE and pray that Ati figures out how to code decent opengl drivers. 400 bucks and below, get a 6800GT and OC it past ultra speeds~ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry for double, had to say something to him.
YOU'RE IN LUCK. ATI recently released Catalyst 4.10 which fixes some of the opengl bugs and memory allocation problems theyve been having with some 256mb cards.
I say go with ATI. (My preference is ATI, anyways. All those years of hell with my Geforce 2 MX400 64mb...guh) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OK i'm going to be a little skeptic here...
1K-2K more than anyone with a 6800? Is that a Non-Ultra? GT? Ultra? Ultra Extreme? I'll have to assume a Non-Ultra, which is 100$ below the Pro's price range, hardly a comparison. You're also not mentioning, either your score, or the 3DMark generation, frankly, what a waste of forum space.
I've had an nVidia since the beginning of time, none of them ever malfunctioned at all. And ofcourse I could enjoy of nVidia's flawless drivers. Now i'm not being a fanboy here, merely expressing my experiences with nVidia so far. It's quite silly how many people here enjoy acting like an ATi fanboy.
EDIT: Do you need some Midol? I never trashed Nvidia, or based anything for that matter. I was telling him my experiances with both Nvidia and ATI. I think YOU are a waste of forum space. All 78 posts.
As for the nvidia, I dont know. I'd guess somewhere around the same price.
EDIT: Do you need some Midol? I never trashed Nvidia, or based anything for that matter. I was telling him my experiances with both Nvidia and ATI. I think YOU are a waste of forum space. All 78 posts. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
GT's generally score up to 12000. So you are right on, or just below, the GT average. Not quite 1000-2000 above it.
Urgh, you might've realised the second bit wasn't aimed towards you, rather the people that spam the same piece of flame towards nVidia every oppertunaty they get.
Im gunna go scan through the score sheet on xoxide to see peoples scores. There is no one over 11800 marks with 3dmark 03 on the boards.
I think a major reason im not getting those marks is because I dont know how to raise my fsb. Its currently set at 200mhz, even though it can go as high as 1ghz (WOOSH CAN YOU SAY WATERCOOLING?!)
EDIT:
Im seeing 1 guy with a gt getting 6k benchmarks. On that note, his drivers were buggered. (So much for reliable drivers?)
Wait! Reading further down, He fixed everything and got a score of 10,000 flat. (He has an athlon 64 3200, though)
2nd EDIT: It was overclocked.
"I would vote the X800XT, because the 6800Ultra is about equal with the X800Pro on similar systems. Benchmarks have shown the X800XT getting higher fps in than the 6800 in many games"- Head admin of xoxideforums.com
I can't imagine SM3.0 being required <i>or</i> heavily featured in Longhorn. I would be surprised if even 0.5% of windows based PC users have an SM3.0 capable card, in two years I'd be shocked if that total hit 10%. Unless nvidia and ati paid massive ammounts of money to ms, I can't see them pandering to such a small demographic.
Well I can't either <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> There will apparently be a few modes which it will run. The first being the standard win 2000 interface with a few improvements and a dx 7 minimum card. Next there will be a dx9/10 mode, called "Aero" and "Aero Glass". This is where SM 3.0 could possible required or heavily featured, thought that is still rumour and unconfirmed.
Sorry, perhaps I should have been more specific <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
EDIT: Currently, my planned system costs $1,067.23. If anything, I'd like to drive that price down, because shipping and handling brings it up some $60/$70.
But then, I guess if you're used to a card that can't even do ACTUAL pixel shader 2.0, that kind of thing would excite you. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ERK! Chrono, look at the X700 series then. They stomp the crap out of the standard 6800s from gaming benchmarks, and run between $200 and 250 (250 for the top-end X700 with 256MB RAM, and a higher-clocked core, which gives the 6800GT a run for its money). The only problem is that they're still making their way out to retail stores at the moment.