Marine tactics class

unsung · November 2002

some nice pointers made in this thread..just thought i'd add my 5 cents <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Firstly: When fighting in a contended area and resources are tight.be sure to salvage tech weapons for your team!! You save your comm alot of hassle and a bit of money if you claim guns like the hmg,grenade launcher etc, while fighting in the field off fallen comrades!!

2:If your not a great shot and your comm is in a good state financially ask for a shotgun..this weapon will pay out a skulk in one shot and you don't have to be too accurate..(unless your being gangbanged by pack runners :O )you usually come out on top in a confrontation 8/10 the victor.

3:DON'T use a shotgun on fades or Onos breeds unless you got a jetpack or power armour..there armour class negates alot of your damage (especially if they are using carapace) like quake 3. You have to hit a fade clean about 8 times to kill it at medium range :\ (on average)

4:Learn the maps...It helps to not just know where things are, but where the key choke points are as well. When i'm playing with my clanbrothers i know i can count on them to push forward to a suitable choke area and hold the enemy giving me time to build tech structures for the comm or resource towers..good choke points can be held by 1 or 2 marines against multiple contacts!! I've seen 2 marines in the comm view cut down an enemy blitz from a whole team of aliens rushing on nancy!!

5:Follow through with orders..This one is important, i know alot of marines (even veterans) think they know better but the truth of the matter is the comm IS the only person who can see the big picture..if he says fall back or he needs you to put up some turret defence then he's usually got a good reason to do it..by the numbers marines, it's the key to victory!! Ours is not to reason why..ours is but to DO or DIE!!!

6:Last but not least..live for your teammates, move together,fight together,die together even if the comm says so..but never leave a man behind!!! I'd rather die then give over one of my teammates to the hive..(but that's me..any REAL marine would never jump ship on another marine)

7:Always remember that the game is about FUN..the game stops being fun if you come down hard on other marines for not knowing what to do or not being able t keep up with the play...take the time to help your fellow marine and he might be the one pulling your **obscenity** out of the frying pan!!

Hope this helps..

Narfwak · November 2002

I got an email about where my server (well, spider gaming's server) is, IP-wise. You should be able to just type <b>connect spidergaming.com:27016</b> in the console to get to our server, but I've had some trouble with this lately so I'll just give the straight IP. It should be <b>67.41.88.222:27016</b>

If you have trouble with this IP let me know.

Also, if anyone knows about NS's compatability with admin mod or other server uttilities, send me a PM about it. LOTS of lamers and llamas have been attacking our server as of late, and I need a weapon to fight them with.

BoddoZerg · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crazed Monk On a Mission @ Nov 12 2002, 01:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>1) All marines should command at least once. As this will increase your understnading of the game greatly</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
The first time I commanded I got votekicked within 2 minutes.

Having a first-time commander means a certain loss for the Marines. The NS command console is so confusing even for a long time RTS player like me that it's impossible for a first time commander to win a game. IMHO, the NS team seriously needs to put together a tutorial on commanding.

Inexorable · November 2002

Really? I found the console so Warcraft-ish that I just slid right in. You miss out on the functionality of a real RTS interface, but after a quick check to find where everything was I didn't have any problem navigating.

I will agree however that the current game structure makes a marine win without a seasoned Comm all but impossible.

Narfwak · November 2002

The only problem with the game balanceing is that an entire team of good alien players can be smacked down by a very good commander even if he is commanding a bunch of n00bs. All the commander has to do is slowly advance with turrets and quickly cut off hive sites; this leaves the aliens without any way of winning.

I know this statement may seem to contradict the entire purpose of this thread; this is not the case. The point of this thread is keep individual marines competent enough that a moderately okay or even a n00b commander can still succeed with them.

About the post of every marine being commander - I agree with this. However, take the time to play a LAN game by yourself or with friends to familiarize yourself with the commander interface. Also, while every marine should play as a commander some time, that doesn't mean they have to do it right away. Think of it as the Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca; it has to happen sometime, but not neccessarily now. I would also have to agree with Inexorable that the interface really is a no-brainer. It looks almost like the developers just stole the interface from StarCraft and customized it to suit their own needs.

FlatlineUTD · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Narfwak @ Nov 14 2002, 06:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I would also have to agree with Inexorable that the interface really is a no-brainer. It looks almost like the developers just stole the interface from StarCraft and customized it to suit their own needs.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Is this a bad thing? I think Blizzard's RTS games have very efficient interfaces.

Narfwak · November 2002

No, I do not think this is a bad thing. This isn't even a commercial game, and it is a very usefull and easy-to-learn interface.

FlatlineUTD · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Narfwak @ Nov 15 2002, 03:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>No, I do not think this is a bad thing. This isn't even a commercial game, and it is a very usefull and easy-to-learn interface.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
OK, I just couldn't tell whether you felt it was good or bad from your previous post. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Apparition · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Narfwak @ Nov 3 2002, 02:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Burst fire. Recoil isn't really an issue in ns, but ammo sure is. Going full auto on the wall next to a skulk is a sure-fire way to become snack food.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
How do you activate burst fire?

FlatlineUTD · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Apparition @ Nov 15 2002, 10:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>How do you activate burst fire?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
You don't activate it - burst fire is a technique. Instead of holding down the fire button while attacking, you shoot in short bursts of 3-4 bullets. You get less recoil, have better aim, and conserve ammo by doing this.

Narfwak · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flatline[UTD] @ Nov 15 2002, 05:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Apparition @ Nov 15 2002, 10:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>How do you activate burst fire?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
...You get less recoil, have better aim,...</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Recoil isn't an issue in NS at all - it isn't even coded in. Try this - take out your pistol, run around in bunny-hop circles shooting things. If you pay attention, you will notice that every shot will be <i>exactly</i> where you aimed.

Which leads me to my next point; the pistol is the smart marines' sniper rifle. It is always perfectaly on the mark, no matter how quickly you fire. It is also very powerfull, with 20 damage (using the "Sterkman Point System" <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'> ) per shot. Use it to nail the skulk waiting for you in a dark corner (stay frosty, this can happen at any time), or two nail that lerk camping you a mile away.

Narfwak · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cay @ Nov 15 2002, 09:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Another thing, Marines have portal technology use it, that means all those button operated doors should stay closed, if you find an open door that means aliens have been that way. you werent born in a bar close the doors behind you. =)</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
This is more of a tip for commanders than marines, although you should keep that door shut behind you (unless someone is following you, of course). Still, having too many jump pads in poorly chosen locations is foolish, as it can lead to several fades appearing and disappearing all over your base. Jump pads should be used to connect fortified, strategic areas only - frivolous use is just dumb.

FlatlineUTD · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Narfwak @ Nov 15 2002, 01:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Recoil isn't an issue in NS at all - it isn't even coded in.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Yeah, I was starting to notice this as well. However, you do have spread when you use a weapon like the HMG. I've noticed a considerably narrower spread while using burst fire with that weapon. I haven't noticed as big a one with the LMG.

Cay · November 2002

Another thing, Marines have portal technology use it, that means all those button operated doors should stay closed, if you find an open door that means aliens have been that way. you werent born in a bar close the doors behind you. =)

Wheezer · November 2002

Just thought I'd add a pointer about the oh-so-important mines in the early game.

When you place a mine on the wall it lights up like a christmas tree. A mine on the floor is another thing, especially in dark places <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>
Tripmines and floormines used in conjunction is usually very good.

Narfwak · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flatline[UTD] @ Nov 15 2002, 07:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Yeah, I was starting to notice this as well. However, you do have spread when you use a weapon like the HMG. I've noticed a considerably narrower spread while using burst fire with that weapon. I haven't noticed as big a one with the LMG.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
HMG is just ridiculously innacurate. It almost begins to make up for its insane power.

Narfwak · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wheezer @ Nov 15 2002, 11:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Just thought I'd add a pointer about the oh-so-important mines in the early game.

When you place a mine on the wall it lights up like a christmas tree. A mine on the floor is another thing, especially in dark places <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>
Tripmines and floormines used in conjunction is usually very good.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Yes, good post. Don't use floormines by themselves, or they can be easily avoided (skulks don't use floors, remember).

Narfwak · November 2002

Here is a new topic for the basic training section. This has probably been said before, but apparently people read what I say (I don't know why, everyone else says it too).

<b>=Gathering Round the Campfire=</b>
It is a common misconception that getting buildings finished in captured areas is so incredibly important that every marine in a squad of three should get to building right away. Apperently, people think this applies the most with resource collectors more than anything else, which is even more ridiculous.

Skulks just love it when a marine turn his or her back to them, and get tickled pink when an entire group of marines does it. Building large structures such as RP collectors does exactly that, and a lone skulk may wait in cloaking for a very long time before an opportunity such as this presents itself. In short, "gathering round the campfire" is a sure-fire way to become a meat popsicle.

How do we fix this? Well, for one, don't do it - duh. Instead, cover your teammates and get in position. Scan the walls and look everywhere while <i>one</i> person builds, making sure the opportunity for a skulk to strike never happens. Commanders should fire off a scanner sweep when the building starts so the covering marines can hit the skulk when it least expects it. One note - suppressing fire isn't much of a reality in NS, especially against skulks, so don't bother. It only tells the aliens that you are scared and tells them where you are, and we all know that scared marine meatsicles are much tastier than than intelligent meatsicles.

There can be some exceptions to this rule. When building turret factories as parts of major sieges, factories may get placed in areas of contention. Some team members should crouch behind the turret factory and get it up as quickly as possible, with the rest of the team standing in front of the factory taking the hits. You might want someone behind the factory giving cover depending on the situation. Getting a small turret matrix up is often extremely important to the success of a siege, and should be the number-one priority of a determined offensive.

Sober · November 2002

well, welder can also kill easily because

welder = no reload

also, knives are good against Onos when u have no ammo, i knife an onos.

Narfwak · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flatline[UTD] @ Nov 15 2002, 07:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Yeah, I was starting to notice this as well. However, you do have spread when you use a weapon like the HMG. I've noticed a considerably narrower spread while using burst fire with that weapon. I haven't noticed as big a one with the LMG.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I tried this last night. It didn't do a thing for my accuracy; in fact, I almost seemed to be less accurate. I sure did save bullets though.

devil-fire · November 2002

i would realy like to see some sign language happening, like if you have armor, wip out yur knife to ask for a weld, saying 'damn it you newbs! i have armor! i need a weld so get to it!' because out of the 4 guys who have armor around someone, it can be hard to id each one

XiaoXiao · November 2002

I think HMG's work better with JP's because skulks can't fly <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> But thats just me.....

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

^^^^
^^^
^^
^
^

.......................................................................................... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'>

EEP!

ReDdNeKk · November 2002

This list really help me thx

<b>happy hunting</b> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'>

Vertigo-1 · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (devil-fire @ Nov 21 2002, 11:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>i would realy like to see some sign language happening, like if you have armor, wip out yur knife to ask for a weld, saying 'damn it you newbs! i have armor! i need a weld so get to it!' because out of the 4 guys who have armor around someone, it can be hard to id each one</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
The solution to this would be to give welders to the most team-minded players. ANY time after an engagement, everyone should run around doing minor welds on others. Even the non-HAs benefit from it. If someone has to specifically ask for a weld, they've either been shredded on-point, or neglected from basic maintenance.

Narfwak · November 2002

Just give welders to everyone. Newbies can't use their pistol anyway 'cause they panic, and won't be able to mine anything for you either. That's more of a commander tip though.

If you have a welder, just use it on everyone you see, especailly in large games or near a battle. Chances are, just about everyone has taken some damage and needs some sweet welder lovin'. It only take 1-3 secs to weld even full armor (fully upgraded HA) back to tip-top condition, so you aren't being inefficient at all.

My only beef with the welder is its insanly long draw time. When you run out of ammo and the enemy is almost dead, you want to hand them their butt on a platter. Knifing won't do the job against skulks unless you have serious jumping skill, so you want to switch to your welder. Then you wait. Almost four seconds. Just for the damn thing to draw. ARG! Then, you die. MORE ARG! But I digress.

SlicrSnipe · November 2002

Narfwak, it may be of note to you that "meat popsicle" is a phallic innuendo. Not sure if you meant it that way, but if you think about it...

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

Narfwak · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SlicrSnipe @ Nov 23 2002, 07:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Narfwak, it may be of note to you that "meat popsicle" is a phallic innuendo. Not sure if you meant it that way, but if you think about it...</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Ewwwww...

Quazars · November 2002

In regards to the welding of other Marines' armor, it can be quite confusing if you're the one with the welder, and someone asks to be welded in a crowd. There is no quick way to discern which marine needs welding. I agree, that some signal is needed to keep us welders useful.

Maybe turn on your flashlight.

On a similar note: many marines turn on their flashlight for no apparent reason. It helps alert Skulks that you are on your way, when they see that circle of light. Clear clue for them that dinner has arrived. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Narfwak · November 2002

In HL mods in general, your flashlight is rather pointless. Why? Well, in addition to whatever area you want to light up, it also makes <i>you</i> glow. In fact, it is often easier to see a person using their flashlight than the area the flashlight is pointed at. HL flashlight code sucks.

Make a key-bind to say "I need welding!," then jump up and down or do whatever you need to do to get someone's attention. And just weld everyone you see; chances are, they need it, and it doesn't take long at all.

Burncycle · November 2002

Tactics are vital true- I've seem some real squaddie type tactics used (marines behind cover, one advances forward while two anchor and cover fire incase someone jumps him)

Tip: If your waiting in the beginning for the alien rush, DON'T wait like deep inside your base. Alot of bases have ramps or large rooms with doors- Wait THERE! That way you have a long time to take your shots and the sulk has to, generally, travel towards you with less room to maneuver. If you wait till they're already deep inside your base, your gonna be spraying and praying. Dont' make it harder on yourself, choose a position that enables you to get a longer shot before they even get a chance to do anything.

Key locations: Resources are valueable no doubt. Often of even higher value is "captureing" one of their hives- It's even better if you can do both. Most of my tactics lie in takeing strongpoints (not nessisarily just resources). The "mess hall" for example is something I attempt to take even before that first resource outside the base. The idea here is that if you can take the mess hall, that resource in between that and your base will always be there. But if you grab the resource first, the mess hall may be.... occupied.... by the time you get to it.

Some commanders are techie commanders... grab resouces and outfit yourself with neat-o grenade launchers! I'm more of a turret farm commander. "Contain, and neutralize" type deal. Why go in a hive when you can build seige turrets outside a hive? At first it's like "well, 6 one way half a dozen the other" right? Works both ways, yadda yadda. Well, if you just go attack the hive they know your coming and all of them rush to meet the threat. But if you destract, say with a few troops over and over, it keeps the aliens busy and you can build a seige turret farm with just one dude silently- and they don't see that coming unless they accidently stumble on your position (a threat which is reduced when you destract with other troops). They don't see that coming- it's a "oh crap it's already blowing us up" type situation rather than a "hey some marines are here to try and blow us up". Make the enemy _react_ rather than act. Stay one step ahead. It's always fun to see the obscene words the aliens make when they build in an "empty" hive only to find out that the marines have placed a well defended seige turret farm _outside_ the hive chambers out of sight. Heh, they spend 80 on a hive and it gets blown away immediately ^_^

If this fails, I generally, by now, have plenty of resource units up- while I have almost no reserve because of the building that takes place, the resources quickly raise up. The enemy is too busy defending to really expand. Again- make them react rather than act. Now they are still struggleing, and (if you want) can build up technology. See, sometimes the above tactic that I use doesen't work, but what it seems to ALWAYS do is buy me time. So if it does not work, I have time to build tech. Whereas if I spend too much time with tech at first, and its not fast enough, I've got nothing to fall back on. Thinking ahead-. I've won games without deploying any weapon bigger than a shottie.... other games my attempts fail, but because of the way I built, we have time to grab some better guns.

Another idea thrown out:
Rather than building a resource node, or turret factory "first" at an expansion (as the argument seems to always be about) why not build a phase gate first? Newbies usually are difficult to control because, honestly, it's an overwhelming game at first (took me about a day or two to learn the odds and ends, and I'm STILL learning new things even yesterday!). But it's much easier to go "walk through this thing and boom your there"

And lastly:
Be aware! it's been said this in any game. ANY game- be aware of your surroundings. The "xxx killed xxx" in the upper right hand corner is a USEFUL TOOL. Weither it's DOD, or CS, or ToD, or natural selection. Be aware of your surroundings and be observant, and you'll know things without people having to tell you. "Man jonny died? Well he was on his way to the sewer to reinforce the resource node with no defense... he left XX seconds ago so he must not have even gotten very far! But I'm close to the resource node.... I'll go defend it"

or something as simple as "Oh dag, I hear the tap tapping of knive-feet over there. DUH there's a sulk! Lets see.... this is a tight space which means when I see him, he'll be RIGHT in my face.... I'd better back up to this long coordior so that when I see him I have a long time to shoot his butt!"

It's not hard, just gotta think about it. Long past are the days of Doom 1 where you just... well blow up everything in sight! Take initative. Commanders like to see people who can take care of themselves- and in turn, the commander will say "this guy can get things done" and pay special attention to you.

*EDIT*
Also: Don't underestimate shotguns.
They are a powerful yet rarely used tool early on-
a newbie has a hard time aiming at such a small target often times, especially since the muzzle flash on the LMG hinders your view (always hates that). If the newbie can at least aim, a shotgun gives him the chance to fire, see his opponent, etc. and even gives him a chance to "miss" a little and still do damage, becuase... well... it's a shotgun.

And in the hands of vets, shotguns are pure pwnage early on <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> You can almost immediately see if your shot landed home.

If you dont' want to go all out, thats fine. But at least give one to that one guy that knows what he's doing <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'> he knows the stuff is expensive and will take care of his new toy.

And, newbies.... don't charge. Please. Honestly. These toys the commanders outfit you with are expensive.... don't just waste it. When I get Heavy armor and a machine gun I get more cautious, not more reckless.

Also, when defending your base in the very beginning from the sulk rushes, if you run out of ammo or low on life early on after fighting back a wave, why not just kill yourself? Don't bug the commander when it would take just a few seconds to respawn fresh and new. Obviously this isn't a good idea if you've got neat toys <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'> but if your right there, equipped with just the basic stuff, go ahead and respawn if you run out.

And last thing: Be nice to newbies. It's not their fault- most are compitent, just new. A commanders job, for instance, is very intimidating to the newbie. It's really intimidating at first to learn all of that stuff with 5 crazy teammates yelling at you all at once. How did I learn? One vet, on one boring server with only a few people in it, told me to get up there and learn. Yeah we lost that one because things were just slow, but every time I commanded after that (from the beginning), we won, up to this day. So, when things are going slow, I always offer a newbie a chance to hop in and learn. (usually people who are level headed, not kids who say "OOOOOOOO lemme be commander!").

(and by the way, if you actively use voice com, the job of commander is alot easier)

Marine tactics class

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